Ruger PC

[JumpmasterC]

I know this has prolly been discussed here b4, but recently I got to play with a buddies PC 40. I never really paid it much attention until now. It is a great lil' gun....but I don't understand why Ruger-

A) Never made it in .45ACP?
B) Why in the heck did they discontinue this neat carbine?

Any thoughts? :?:

 

[96/44]

I'm sure poor sales are the reason it was discontinued, pistol caliber carbines are a niche market. Their competition was less expensive (hi-point) and available for more popular magazines (kel-tec). They are a tough, well designed gun though. I think if more LE agencys were using the SR9, it would be likely that Ruger might bring back the PC9 using SR9 mags. A PC45 would be sweet though!

 

[mattsbox99]

Doesn't the HiPoint use Glock magazines? I don't care for HiPoints pistols, but their carbine is a pretty good gun.

 

[JumpmasterC]

I am looking at the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in .40, it uses Glock mags. It is not approved for sale in K alifornia (in factory config.), but I guess a few companies modify them with a bullet button & install a butt stock pad to increase the OAL as it is 29.5" factory.... a no-no in the PRC! :roll:

I really want a .45ACP, but the Marlin Camp .45 seems to be the sole option & they are pricey & the 3 guys I have talked to that have em'....2 have cracked stocks now!

 

[gbreece]

I just got a pc 40 and love it, have had kel tec, beretta, hi point and marlin but the ruger pc is the best shooting carbine i have ever had. Its my go to gun in a pinch at home.

 

[Razor]

Doesn't the HiPoint use Glock magazines?

No. It uses its own 10rd magazine.

I have a HiPoint and it has proven to be just as reliable and accurate as my PC9.

It doesn't have the warclub properties of the Ruger, though. :wink:

 

[blume357]

I think Ruger's idea with the PC rifles was to sell both pistols and rifles to law enforcement... same ammo and mags... cool idea but not really what the quasi-military LEOs really want... they all wanted .223 for their back up rifles...

lot of us citizens liked the combo, especially if we already had a p pistol in either 9mm or 40 cal.... some of us actually liked the combo so well we doubled up.

as for the 45 acp issue... I think it had to do with Ruger's policies back then.... they believed in creating guns that used their exclusive magazines.....

now that they've developed a 1911... they might, just might ... reconsider the 45 cal rifle idea.... but I doubt it.

 

[RFP]

I have a Beretta CX4 carbine in 45 ACP and you would not believe how accurate it is. It can be configured different ways without any tools and has a decent assortment of after market accessories.

 

[hittman]

The LEO's had an unlimited supply of other peoples money. So .... they could afford .223's, tactical toys, etc.

We "subjects" are the only ones pinching pennies and appreciating the concept of taking a P95 and PC9 to the range and having a matched "set" with interchangable mags, etc.

Quick, easy, convenient and thrifty don't matter much when you're spending other peoples money.

 

[mrmike7189]

gunsamerica.com had a pc4 for $499 this week if interested. They only made 15,000 of them, so get one soon before i buy them all!!!!!!!!!
I have a pc9 and pc4 both accurate and rugged. worth every dollar i spent

 

[Sparks1957]

Hi all,

Been lurking here awhile, but now have something to talk about!

I'm pretty excited. I'll be heading out to the range in an hour or so to test out a Ruger PC9 that finally arrived yesterday.

This is one impressive little carbine from what I've seen so far, and I'd love to hear about any experiences with them folks here may have had.

If the SHTF, I've always believed having handguns and long guns in the same caliber made a lot of sense. Most 9mm carbines are butt-ugly in my opinion, and the only ones that aren't (Ruger PC9, Marlin Camp 9mm) are out of production. I think Ruger and Marlin would find a good market for these if they brought them back.

Sparks

 

[blume357]

The one 'thing' about the PCs is the trigger.. they were intentionally made with a real Military style trigger... the pull needed to trip the hammer on these things must be in the 10-14 lb range. has anybody ever checked this? The break is clean once you put enough pressure on the trigger and so with a little bit of practice, the rifle can be pretty accurate. I'd say you can work it down to MOH* free style standing at 50 yards.... but it takes some work and if you are used to shooting target rifles with 2-3 pound trigger pull it takes some getting used to.

*Minute of Head

The only other thing I would say that is a little against the rifle is the weight... these puppies are a little heavy for a 'small' carbine.

With all that said, I will say this... a few years ago my wife and I had a serious weather related event here in our town... to the point where we thought we were going to have to evacuate our home (city neighborhood)... even though we had a car parked up the street to leave in I was not sure how far we would get in it and so had to pack so that we could walk if we needed to. Think of going on a 3 day hike into the unknown... could be wilderness or urban.... I needed to figure out what to take for protection and not to brag but I do have a few choices (too many according to my wife)... it did not take long to figure out what to carry.... A P95 pistol (concealed) and a PC9 and about 4 15 round magazines.

 

[Lateck]

Most 9mm carbines are butt-ugly in my opinion, and the only ones that aren't (Ruger PC9, Marlin Camp 9mm) are out of production. I think Ruger and Marlin would find a good market for these if they brought them back.
Sparks

I own a couple of Kel-Tec Sub 2000's (9 & .40) and (yes) they are sort of ugly... :lol:
The Hi Points are a bit better looking.... :?

I'll agree that if Ruger (Marlin has to many problems right now) were to bring back the PC series THEY WOULD sell! (I'd buy one).

Your logic about shared ammo is spot on,,,,,

Lateck,

 

[mrmike7189]

they should have made a PC45.....the P90 is an excellent gun and some Police depts. used to carry P90's....but more carried P89's and the 40S&W.

 

[bisleyfan41]

I'd love to plck up a PC9 one of these days. That is, unless Glock happens to come out with their own line of carbines. Other companies build guns to use Glock mags. Glock might as well get in on it. In that event, I'd take 5 of 'em; one for each of us! Just thinkin' of a Glock 9mm carbine with a good supply of their 33-rd mags gets me all giddy.

 

[Sparks1957]

there's a PC9 newly listed on gunsamerica for 575 or so, relatively cheap... no pics though so condition is unknown

http://www.gunsamerica.com/986122460/Guns/Rifles/Ruger-Rifles/Mini-14-Type/RUGER_PC9_9MM_CARBINE_BLACK_SYNTHETIC_LIKE_NEW.htm

sparks

 

[WAYNO]

I know this has prolly been discussed here b4, but recently I got to play with a buddies PC 40. I never really paid it much attention until now. It is a great lil' gun....but I don't understand why Ruger-

A) Never made it in .45ACP?
B) Why in the heck did they discontinue this neat carbine?

Any thoughts? :?:

I've got a PC4, and it's a gun I'll never part with.

Lots of criticisms from folks...Weight, looks, wrong caliber, wrong magazine, terrible trigger.

I'll speak of what I like about it.

Surprisingly accurate. It's another gun that with open-sights, any target you can see, is a target you'll hit. In spite of the blow-back action, the action stays clean. And, the report is quite mild. I don't advocate shooting without ear protection, but I when ya do shoot one without protection, I cannot imagine any center-fire with a milder report. The recoil is quite mild, too. Not that a .40 is ever hard-recoiling, but the weight of this carbine goes a long way to make these guns a true pleasure to shoot.

Now, in defense of the criticisms. Yep, it's a little stout. Part of what makes it so easy to shoot. Also a big part of why it was designed as a blow-back action. If it was a locked breach gun, it could be lighter, but then it wouldn't be such a simple, trouble-free gun. The heft of this gun has never been an issue to me, so trimming 6-ounces is a non-issue.

If the PC was considered too-expensive, it would have been even more so, in a .45.

Why discontinued? The idea was sound, but since most LE agencies have not accepted the P-Series handguns, the benefit of a two gun combination using the same ammo and magazine would not be utilized. As a "civilian" gun, I think the PC was doomed to failure from the beginning, as gun stores had little or no interest in the gun as a successful offering. When the PC's were new and available, I almost never saw one in stock and for sale in gun shops.

I will not defend the trigger, but I will tolerate it. The battle rifles I used in the Army also had heavy triggers. We worked with what we had. My PC4 is no worse.

I have given quite a few folks the opportunity to shoot my PC4, and my friend Heliman has done the same with his PC9. In every case, the shooters were in absolute awe of how great a gun these are, and can't understand why they were discontinued.

WAYNO.

 

[Gumby]

Coffee pot ... where are you????

He used to post on the RF, but I don't see him posting anymore. Coffee Pot was the guy who designed the Ruger PC's.

When I bought my PC9 I used to email him with all kinds of questions. He was always helpful. Hope he is doing well.

Gumby

 

[COFFEE POT]

There were prototypes made in .45 ACP and they shot like a dream. It was never put into production because of the cost involved to make the conversion and the sales of the carbine weren't all that stellar to begin with. It was too expensive to use as a plinker, and underpowered for hunting except for med game at close range. The cost of the .45 version to produce was no more than for the 9mm or .40 S&W and was still a blowback. The high cost involved was for the retooling of the stock. The upper management never felt that even picking up the 1911 crowd would justify the expense. The .45 would have been able to accept both Colt and Ruger mags by a quick changeout of the mag latch. It was a very niche market and the gun was just too expensive to build.

 

[WAYNO]

There were prototypes made in .45 ACP and they shot like a dream. It was never put into production because of the cost involved to make the conversion and the sales of the carbine weren't all that stellar to begin with. It was too expensive to use as a plinker, and underpowered for hunting except for med game at close range. The cost of the .45 version to produce was no more than for the 9mm or .40 S&W and was still a blowback. The high cost involved was for the retooling of the stock. The upper management never felt that even picking up the 1911 crowd would justify the expense. The .45 would have been able to accept both Colt and Ruger mags by a quick changeout of the mag latch. It was a very niche market and the gun was just too expensive to build.

Very nice to hear from you with the accurate scoop.

Thanks.

WAYNO.

 

[blume357]

Amen!
Glad to hear from you.

I was writing about the PCs I think over on thefiringline and basically pointed out the few items that people tend to complain about with them that they were actually designed that way intentionally.... I called them heavy duty - duty carbines.

and Coffeepot wrote:
"There were prototypes made in .45 ACP and they shot like a dream."

Now you got me wishing and dreaming for something I know I can never have that actually existed!

 

[Gumby]

So, now that Ruger makes a 1911, and I'll bet that sales are doing well, wouldn't it be great to make a PC in 45ACP that uses the 1911 magazine?

They would pull in sales from buyers of all makes of 1911, or am I missing something here?

Gumby

 

[COFFEE POT]

Unfortunately, even though the number of 1911 owners out there seems to be growing all the time, market studies showed that only a very small percentage were interested in a companion carbine. The 1911 really isn't a field gun and it's still a pistol cartridge with a small amount of powder so it's unable to take advantage of the longer barrel to any significant extent. Just like the 9mm and .40 S&W you only pick up about 10 to 15% in velocity using the equivalent load from a handgun. The L.E. folks that wanted them, wanted them to increase the range of the handgun from the standard 25 yds out to about 60 yds and that was accomplished with the longer sight radius. The big three ammo makers only make ammunition in these pistol calibers to be stable to 50 yds, beyond that it's a crapshoot. The barrels are capable of excellent accuracy and a number of handloaders have told me that with judicious handloading they've managed to get 3" 100 yd groups. I believe them because the barrels themselves are capable of much better than that. I really doubt that you would ever see a return of the PC Carbine as it was expensive to build back then and would be even moreso now. The tooling investment required for the stock alone way back when was over $200,000 not even including the cost of the changes to the bolt, etc. tooling. The gun was built basically per DoD specs and you could throw it across the room and bounce it off a concrete floor and it would come up shooting. It was built to the same specs as a military battle rifle. Ruger only has one operating foundry anymore as everything is going to MiMed parts as the metallurgy improves and I really can't see them buying a whole set of new tooling for a gun that merely filled a niche market, which is no longer there. We looked at a number of different calibers for the gun, some of which would have really surprised you, but the market just wasn't there to support it. Maybe 10 years from now such a thing would be in vogue, but not today. The few good used ones out there are bringing quite a premium. Where were these folks when we could have used them to keep the sales at a profitable level so we could have expanded the line ? Seems nobody wants anything unless they can't have it anymore. The L.E. folks bought them in good numbers for few years and then went back to shotguns and M16s. The commercial market just wasn't there to support it. It's really a damned good gun for its intended purpose, urban L.E., but not much else. You want to pay to plink with 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP ? Most folks out there can't afford to do that when .22s are dirt cheap and the pop can still jumps around. One comment on the .45 prototypes as I really can't talk about it even now, due to the low pressure and heavy bullet of the .45, the recoil was a gentle push instead of a jolt. A real sweetheart. I tried to get one of the prototypes when I retired, but it was a no-go all the way from the top down.

 

[Sparks1957]

Thanks, Coffeepot, for the informative posts.

I'm really glad I got one of these fine little carbines; mine is pretty accurate out to 50 yards, and since it is really intended as a HD weapon that is good enough. One in .45 would have been interesting though

 

[Lateck]

Thanks again, Coffeepot.

Your in-sight is great.
I wish they would make them again but, real world economics come into play....
I'll have to keep an eye out for one in my area.

Lateck,

 

[Razor]

Thanks for the insight, COFFEE POT!
Its always great to see you post.

My PC9GR is one of my favorite firearms.

 

[Mobuck]

I have an Aimpoint on my PC9 and I'm confident it will kill a deer @100 yards with 147 JHP ammo. Really tears up milk jugs at that range and closer. DIL shot it some this summer. She's a new shooter and had never fired bigger than a 10-22. She thought the PC9 was a real whomper and found it easy to shoot.
I jumped on the combo band wagon long ago. Have the PC9 and several P models plus a Marlin Camp 9 and matching S&W 9mm. Son just bought a S&W6906 so he may get possesion of the Camp 9 for a while.

 

[Al James]

Great to see you back and posting here COFFEEPOT! I have referred several people here to your older posts on the PC guns, we all appreciate your inside info. Now hang out for a while!

 

[JumpmasterC]

It's not a Ruger, but ATI came out with the JRC

http://www.americantactical.us/1728/detail.html

It takes Glock mags which is nice & several companies set it up to be sold in the PRC!

 

[adk]

I'm the one who always complains about the weight of the PCs. I have the 9 and the 40, both with peep sights. Each is set up with extra magazines on the stock -- the 9 with 9BPLE ammo, and the 40 with Golden Saber. Both guns handle the hot ammo and are very accurate and totally reliable. They are perfect defense guns for the civilian, and I will never part with either of them. My hat's off to COFFEE POT for having designed such a great gun.

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