Ruger needs to Growaset and step up to the Big Leagues. 460&500 S&W or if they don't want to be copycats 350 and 400 Moleman(Legend) and 450 Bushmaste

[Bigbore5]

Ruger is not the Rugers anymore. It's a corporation. Bill can't just want to try something and order it done like he did repeatedly before he died. Now it's all about selling what's profitable more than what's innovative just because it's an advancement of a single man's vision.

 

[Hvymax]

Think about it. Give the Super Redhawk a custom shop stretched Mega Redhawk version. It wouldn't be Rocket Surgery to give it a stretch and beef it up and add some rails like S&W!!! When the Super Redhawk came out it was made to eat things that would take a S&W apart. That's what made Ruger Revolvers Significant. They were what others were doing on steroids. When the Super Redhawk came out it was the Flagship of revolvers. Only Dan Wesson and a handful of custom builders could even come close. Now seeing what the Super Redhawk was vs the model 29 now Ruger needs to do the same to the X frame. Even if they only make a few hundred and loose money on each one it will restore Ruger to a leader in the field. Look at when Ford beat Ferrari. I'm sure they lost money on every GT but at that moment they were the best in the world.

 

[hittman]

Yeah …. Stockholders will surely jump at the chance to piss money away all in the name of bravado.

Ruger only makes a couple SRH's now that aren't dealer exclusives. Those retail for $1500 or so. People whine about the cost of a polymer $400 9mm and have excuses to not send $25 a year to the NRA.

This is why successful corporations think with their wallets and ROI, not what "looks cool".

 

[Bigbore5]

The 500,460, and now 360 or whatever are not packable revolvers. They were a big hit when they came out, but their sales have declined massively since.

These gargantuan revolvers are not packable, that's why they introduced the short barrels. They even tried to market the snubby version in a bear defense kit. I've got one in each barrel length. Mostly for novelty, because even the snub is not comfortable to pack. Then there's the heavy recoil and massive muzzle blast to consider.

The market for big bore handguns is limited. The range ninjas can't look cool with a gun they can't handle. Serious handgun hunters want a quality gun that's big enough for the cartridges they prefer, yet comfortable to shoot and carry. People who have to deal with bears want power, but also controllability and a package they can comfortably carry as they go about their other business.

Ruger's rise to success was due to Bill Sr seeing a niche and filling it. There's no niche here for them. Magnum Research is already filling the big bore single action needs with a stronger, higher quality revolver at a price point competitive with a standard chambered Ruger.

The only way Ruger could be a force in big bores would be to reintroduce the maximum length frame Blackhawk chambered in the Supermag cartridges as well as the Linebaugh longs. This size frame would avoid the unappealing look of the long cylinder BFR the big Smiths are chambered in. The research and design were completed years ago for the frame and has been well tested and proven. The custom smiths have proven it's strength with the Linebaugh longs.

The 500 S&W is nothing but the 500 Linebaugh long with a smaller diameter bullet. The 460 is nothing but the 45×1.6"

 

[Hvymax]

Silhouette shooting has really stagnated since the 1990's.

 

[contender]

I agree that there are a group of folks who enjoy AND use big bore handguns. NOTHING wrong with that.
But, as noted,, it's about money & the gun is the avenue to that.

But I want to address a statement.
"When the Super Redhawk came out it was made to eat things that would take a S&W apart."

That statement is "kinda" true, but not the real reason it was developed. It came about because Ruger had a FEW Redhawks where the barrel broke off at the frame junction. They couldn't figure out why,, (initially) and the Super Redhawk was designed.
Once they discovered it was a combination of the lube used in assembly, combined with it sitting exposed to air over time,, creating excessive torque damage, they understood WHAT had happened. But by then,, the Super Redhawk was already a success.
I know this,, because according to the fine folks at Ruger I spoke with long ago,, shared that knowledge with me. And why did they share,, well my personal Redhawk was the first one to have the barrel break off. My Redhawk, in .44 Mag,, had not been abused,,, and I had excellent loading records, to show them what it had digested.
Apparently,, during assembly,, a rack of barrels,, would all get lubed,,, then assembly would start. It was discovered that if a lubed barrel was left to sit for a few weeks (during a semi-annual shut-down) the properties changed. When production resumed,, nobody realized this. They would assemble & torque the barrels,, and they would do ok,, for a while. Only a handful experienced the separation like I had.

Ruger strives to produce top quality handguns. The LCP,, while it may LOOK somewhat like a Kel-Tec,, it's not like one. Better engineering,, internal extractor, & overall much better quality. PLUS,, they can build enough to meet demands. Again,, this info comes directly from a few of my conversations with Ruger folks.

Ruger management really looks at the market,, and understand that while they COULD develop many products,, and often much better than expected,, they must justify the expenses of that development, AND show a good profit by selling a LOT of product.

 

[Hvymax]

I kinda miss the 70's and 80's IHMSA scene. I was one of the Dan Wesson Mad Scientists. Me and a few of my friends would order barrel blanks with various cuts and twist rates using Betamax cameras to analyze the muzzle and cylinder gap flashes. Working up loads for each barrel etc. Good times. I'm getting ready to venture back into the 12ga from hell game. Sadly Ed Hubel died a few years ago. He figured out if you treat slugs like Nitro Express rifles you can get crazy power with lower chamber pressures. The big problem has always been igniting such powders. Anything short of a 50BMG primer couldn't reliably ignite them necessitating things like (Hide the Children!!!) Duplex loads!!! Anyone who remembers America remembers that occasionally somebody would blow themselves up. But then you could get dynamite and caps at the hardware store.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Why not?

Because it makes no sense. Simple.

Yeah …. Stockholders will surely jump at the chance to piss money away all in the name of bravado.

Said in jest of course but no, it's a business not a frat party.

 

[Hvymax]

Because it makes no sense. Simple.

Said in jest of course but no, it's a business not a frat party.

But having a First/Best Flagship to lead the fleet is good business. Yes most of Rugers Flagships were the product of Bill Rugers ego but that's what drives real innovation. That drive to be the first and best. Being a middle of the road decent value is ok for safe business I suppose. We're more reliable than a Hi Point and Cheaper than a Sig. Yeah that's an ad campaign right there. The Max9 could be a flagship if they went the SIG 365 route with a few variations and support. For the last 20-30 years Ruger just makes a decent reliable gun for a while till the next model comes along and the old one is abandoned along with the mag design and internal parts. Kinda like cars. Look at the Glock and 1911. They have evolved but are just as significant today as they were decades ago. A 30yr old Glock mag will fit in a brand new Glock. Striker and hammer parts of various levels etc. I suppose Ruger has done this with Single Action Revolvers but come on. What would be wrong with an Ultra Redhawk maybe with interchangeable barrels and cylinders and enough rail to make S&W's custom shop cry?

 

[the_leper_colony]

Because it makes no sense. Simple.

A lot of things may "make no sense" to individual gunowners, including (as previously noted) .45/.410 revolvers, .308 AR handguns, and Ruger's Challenger/Charger model pistols. They are nevertheless produced, and purchased by the public.

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc.

 

[Hvymax]

Yeah the Mega Redhawk with interchangeable barrels and cylinders!!! Full length top and bottom rails for optics, bipods, IR illuminators etc. IHMSA domination, Hunting, strolling through Jurassic Park.

 

[the_leper_colony]

Companies often (not always) try to maximize profits using whatever resources they have available. Because they have different resources, and different managers, they often proceed in different directions.

Let's look at a couple of different products, produced by two different American companies. The first is the Smith & Wesson Model 350:

It's chambered for the 350 Legend, holds 7 rounds, weighs 72 ounces, and lists for $1599. You can buy ammo for it at Walmart.

Next up is the Ruger PC Charger:

It's chambered for the 9x19 (commonly used in pocket pistols), holds anywhere from 10 to 50+ rounds, weighs 83 ounces (which is more than several rifles I've built), and lists for $899. I'm not sure if you can still buy 9mm ammo at Walmart - they got 'politically correct' a while back, and stopped carrying "assault weapon" ammo.

So, which company is producing a product that makes sense to you? Do you live in Fairbanks, or Detroit? What are your local firearms laws like? How do you plan to use it? And how much 'fun money' do you have available this month?

Everybody's situation is different; every company's situation (and view of the market place) is different. Fortunately, you can probably order either of the two firearms shown above, if you want one! Heck, if you've got the bucks, buy both! Isn't freedom great?

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc.

 

[Hvymax]

I still haven't forgiven S&W and Colt for telling Civillian Gun Owners to GFY back in the 90's. I'd buy a Hi Point first!!!

 

[Hvymax]

That Charger looks like an absolute abortion. Worst of every option.

 

[the_leper_colony]

That Charger looks like an absolute abortion. Worst of every option.

I'm sure Ruger is selling more than a few of them, to folks that want them (everybody has their own priorities). If they weren't selling, we probably wouldn't have Ruger's newest Charger:

It's chambered for the 5.7x28mm (picture a centerfire .22 WMR), weighs 67 ounces, and has a list price right at a thousand bucks. I'm not sure where you can find 5.7 ammo, but from what I've heard here on the forum, at least it's not a buck a round anymore.

As always FWIW, IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc.

 

[Hvymax]

At least this one has the mag in the grip maximizing barrel length and and improving balance.

 

[the_leper_colony]

At least this one has the mag in the grip maximizing barrel length and and improving balance.

And seems like I've read that the new PSA 5.7 mag will fit & function in most 5.7 Rugers (not bad to have options)!

 

[WV460hunter]

I disagree that the long barrels are not packable. I have always hunted with long barrel weapons a 8⅜ Taurus ,
a ⁹½ SuperRedhawk ,a 15" Thompson and a BFR 10" 460..hvymax and I share something in common. Recoil .. I like the big calibers and I can shoot them everyday if I wanted to. I have a chest rig and a backpack and nothing deters me from packing my long barrel weapons when hunting and if on horse back it isn't even a thing to worry about.

 

[WV460hunter]

Also wanted to add that every weapon must be suited to the user. FOR instance I'm a big guy 6'5" I always been big and big guns suit me well. JMHO pick what's works best for you for me it's big bores all the way.

 

[Hvymax]

Harley Davidson even had to come out with a new Flagship Bike to remain significant.