Redhawk problem?

[Anonymous]

I recently read an article in Wikipedia about the Redhawk and it cited a problem that Ruger was having with the Redhawk seterating just at the juncture of the barrel and the frame.

It said that this is why Ruger developed the super Redhawk with the extended frame.

It further stated that the problem was found to be caused by the lubricant that Ruger was using on the threads when they screwed the barrels into the frame, but at that point the work was already done on the Super design, so they opted to keep both versions in the line.

This is all news to me....did any of you guys know about this? Or is Wiki full of crap on this one.... 8)

Here is a link to the article....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Redhawk

 

[resident]

Why is it that Ruger (.com) doesn't mention it? The factory is pretty good about such matters.

(I noticed that wiki also calls it a "double/single action"... :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Why is it that Ruger (.com) doesn't mention it? The factory is pretty good about such matters.

(I noticed that wiki also calls it a "double/single action"... :roll:

I really don't know why they don't mention it unless it might be that they aren't too proud of the screw-up.

As to the double action/single action issue, perhaps Wiki is referring to the two different methods by which the gun can be fired... 8)

 

[mohavesam]

Never forget Wikipedia is user-contributed. Anyone with some time can contribute test, 100% factual or otherwise.

 

[wixedmords]

.... and Wikipedia doesn't have the staffing to fact check all that is contributed.

In fact anyone here could edit that section that starts with "Problem's with the Redhawk" to say anything they wanted it to say. I would be interesting to see how long it took the staffing at Wikipedia to catch up.

The internet is much better at passing on bad information than good.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Well there was a problem, long ago, just ask Contender.

The lube on the barrel threads was wrong and the over-tightened barrels did have a tendency to fail. There were very few failures. The problem was corrected and that's that.

...Jimbo

 

[resident]

Why is it that Ruger (.com) doesn't mention it? The factory is pretty good about such matters.

(I noticed that wiki also calls it a "double/single action"... :roll:

I really don't know why they don't mention it unless it might be that they aren't too proud of the screw-up.

As to the double action/single action issue, perhaps Wiki is referring to the two different methods by which the gun can be fired... 8)

Ruger ain't too proud to mention a dozen or so other problems....they've always bellied-up-to-the-bar about such things, for several reasons. Good company, Liability, and Bill Ruger.

DOUBLE action...means just that...it can be fired either by pulling the trigger, or by cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger. DA ONLY means just that, but is an abberation of the term by popular useage. (My comment re: wiki was intended to imply that someone without much depth of knowlege about firearms likely wrote that passage. A "double/single action" would be a double-barreled single-action?) :lol:

The only other gun I've ever heard of referred to in that fashion was the LeMat Civil War revolver which fired both ball and shot.

 

[Anonymous]

Over the years, I have seen this double action/single action debate addressed more than a few times. It reminds me of the old 'magazine/clip' argument that is equally inane. It is just a matter of semantics.

The argument I find interesting is the one that states that a double action mode of fire is the long trigger action, whereby the pull of the trigger cocks the hammer, rotates the cylinder and finally drops the hammer, while single action trigger action just drops the hammer after it is cocked by a seperate thumb action.

In any event, it is just another exercise in beating a dead horse. 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Well there was a problem, long ago, just ask Contender.

The lube on the barrel threads was wrong and the over-tightened barrels did have a tendency to fail. There were very few failures. The problem was corrected and that's that.

...Jimbo

Was this just on the stainless steel guns?

I know that sometimes SS on SS threads will sometimes sieze to the point of becoming basically welded together unless the proper lube is used.

When I was working, we used a lot of SS bolts and nuts because we were in the food business (Kellogg's) and I have actually been there and seen it happen. It never was a problem with non SS parts though.

 

[desertrat]

...It reminds me of the old 'magazine/clip' argument that is equally inane. It is just a matter of semantics.....

Not true! At the risk of "beating a dead horse", a "clip" is not a "magazine" and vice versa. Just look at it. Does a stripper clip look like a magazine?

This is unless you're Bill Clinton and can randomly assign your own definitions to words of choice.

 

[Anonymous]

Does a magazine look like an NRA publication? 8)

From Merriam Webster....
Main Entry: 2clip
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : any of various devices that grip, clasp, or hook
2 : a device to hold cartridges for charging the magazines of some rifles; also : a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm
3 : a piece of jewelry held in position by a clip

 

[desertrat]

That may be what "Merriam Webster" says, but people who shoot guns say otherwise.

 

[Anonymous]

That may be what "Merriam Webster" says, but people who shoot guns say otherwise.

Hell yes! Some of them speak russian too, but in English, I think Merriam Webster is a reliable source.

Does S&W refer to the 40 as double action "only"?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y

Does Marlin refer to their feeding mechanisms as "clips"?

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... um/982.asp

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Well there was a problem, long ago, just ask Contender.

The lube on the barrel threads was wrong and the over-tightened barrels did have a tendency to fail. There were very few failures. The problem was corrected and that's that.

...Jimbo

Was this just on the stainless steel guns?

I know that sometimes SS on SS threads will sometimes sieze to the point of becoming basically welded together unless the proper lube is used.

When I was working, we used a lot of SS bolts and nuts because we were in the food business (Kellogg's) and I have actually been there and seen it happen. It never was a problem with non SS parts though.

I don't know whether stainless or blue made a difference on the Redhawk barrels.

Double-action/single-action is used to describe a type of semi-auto pistol that has a long heavy trigger pull to cock and release the first shot and then fires with a light single-action trigger pull after that.

Double-action only is used to describe a semi-auto pistol that has a long heavy trigger pull to cock and release a shot each time the trigger is pulled.

We all know what single-action and double-action revolvers are here, don't we? :wink:

...Jimbo

 

[James Layton]

Don't know how many were affected but it is true..

Jim

 

[mattsbox99]

Let me guess, Ruger didn't make a take down version?

 

[gramps]

yeah they did. It will now fit into a smaller doskocil case. OK OK just kidding. Super glue won't work at this point either.
gramps

 

[WESHOOT2]

true 'story'

 

[Stoots]

For your reading pleasure:

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... awk+barrel

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... awk+barrel

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... awk+barrel

 

[wixedmords]

After doing some looking into the issue yesterday, It does appear as though there was an issue.

But, that wasn't my major issue with the Wikipedia section on "problems with the RedHawk". It was the wording making it look as though there was 30 years of the issue, when it appears to have been just a few guns from a certain time period long ago.

Not saying it shouldn't be included, but it needs more of a qualifier. The issue would then be that the public would never have the real number of those RedHawks affected.

"Those darn RedHawks, didn't you hear, they all break their barrels at the frame".

A few guns, from a long time ago. It wouldn't factor in for me when buying a RedHawk.

 

[Anonymous]

OK boys, thanks for the information.

I think I know what happened if they were SS guns....some grades of Stainless on Stainless will often seize together when screwing parts together. I have seen that happen where the only way to get a nut off the bolt was to cut it off.

If that was the problem, then the wrong lube might very well fail causing the barrel to seize up onto the frame, maybe 1/8 turn before the barrel was fully screwed in. If the installation was completed anyway, the barrel would be partially twisted in two before it left the assembly area. After that it was just a matter of how much shooting it might take to complete the separation.. 8)

 

[Anonymous]

After doing some looking into the issue yesterday, It does appear as though there was an issue.

But, that wasn't my major issue with the Wikipedia section on "problems with the RedHawk". It was the wording making it look as though there was 30 years of the issue, when it appears to have been just a few guns from a certain time period long ago.

Not saying it shouldn't be included, but it needs more of a qualifier. The issue would then be that the public would never have the real number of those RedHawks affected.

"Those darn RedHawks, didn't you hear, they all break their barrels at the frame".

A few guns, from a long time ago. It wouldn't factor in for me when buying a RedHawk.

Nor would it be a factor for me. And I quite agree that while WIKI is generally reliable, it is also subject to errors on occasion, that is why I always check things out with another source.

In any event, even if one were unlicky enough to get one of these affected guns, Ruger will fix it for you at NC, so I certainly wouldn't worry about it. 8)

 

[contender]

Redhawk44,, as noted above,, I had one of the "screwups." Yes,, it's true that a small number of them did have an issue. Mine was the actual first one I believe. It took them quite a while to figure out the why,, and in the meantime,, they went after the problem by building the Super Redhawk. Now they have both. I've never heard of any of the blued ones doing this.
I was also told that the stuff they used on the threads that failed were most likely caused by adding the lube to a bunch of barrels,, then if the whistle blew signaling the end of a work day,, and it was a weekend,, the lube was allowed to air dry to a point it changed properties enough to cause threading stress.
I wasn't hurt except I lost an extremely good shooting Redhawk!

 

[resident]

That may be what "Merriam Webster" says, but people who shoot guns say otherwise.

Hell yes! Some of them speak russian too, but in English, I think Merriam Webster is a reliable source.

Does S&W refer to the 40 as double action "only"?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y

(Their website doesn't work/is-so-g'dammed-SLOW) But they refer to it as "striker fired", and therefore it can't be called either DA or SA. Besides that, who'd ever give S&W license to be the language-police? THAT is the company who makes guns...but who is ANTI SECOND AMNDT! (Remember when they lobbied BATF to restrict handguns to military and police ONLY?) :evil:

...Does Marlin refer to their feeding mechanisms as "clips"?

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... um/982.asp

NO! They refer to it as a MAGAZINE. A "clip magazine" because it clips onto a barb inside the lower action for retention.

Merriam Webster also has fallen into the stupid convention of assigning the WRONG meaning of "gay". They are hardly a valid reference for technical accuracy. IMO

 

[Anonymous]

That may be what "Merriam Webster" says, but people who shoot guns say otherwise.

Hell yes! Some of them speak russian too, but in English, I think Merriam Webster is a reliable source.

Does S&W refer to the 40 as double action "only"?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y

(Their website doesn't work/is-so-g'dammed-SLOW) But they refer to it as "striker fired", and therefore it can't be called either DA or SA. Besides that, who'd ever give S&W license to be the language-police? THAT is the company who makes guns...but who is ANTI SECOND AMNDT! (Remember when they lobbied BATF to restrict handguns to military and police ONLY?) :evil:

...Does Marlin refer to their feeding mechanisms as "clips"?

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... um/982.asp

NO! They refer to it as a MAGAZINE. A "clip magazine" because it clips onto a barb inside the lower action for retention.

Merriam Webster also has fallen into the stupid convention of assigning the WRONG meaning of "gay". They are hardly a valid reference for technical accuracy. IMO

Maybe you better take another look.....The S&W model 40 is referred to as 'double action only' and the fireing is accomplished in part by an 'internal hammer', not striker fired.

The marlin that I posted the link to says 7 shot clip...look at the specs list.

Now you can argue with MW if you want to, or you can even argue with S&W and Marlin, but in all honesty....don't you think that they know a little more about proper nomenclature than you might?

 

[James Layton]

THAT is the company who makes guns...but who is ANTI SECOND AMNDT! (Remember when they lobbied BATF to restrict handguns to military and police ONLY?)

Nope, don't recall that at all. Got any references to that?
Although it is well known that Bill Ruger was against concealed carry by private citizens.

Jim

 

[Anonymous]

Bill Ruger was in favor of making a deal restricting handgun and rifle magazines limited to 15 rounds in order to ward off the assault weapons bad that ultimately reduces the capacity to 10 rounds.

That is the only story that I have ever heard about Ruger being anti 2A.

Not a candidate for the executive vice presidency of the NRA perhaps, but I think his contributions to the shooting sports far outweigh any negative things that he ever said ir did.
8)

 

[James Layton]

Look, I don't want to turn this into a bash Bill Ruger but there is a little more to it then that. Try doing some google searches:

While doing a TV news interview with Tom Brokaw, Bill Ruger said:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."

"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round mags or my folding stock."

"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

"Even a gun manufacturer thinks gun control is good."

The following is an excerpt from the March 30, 1989 letter Bill Ruger sent to every member of Congress. It is in the Congressional Record and has been reprinted in several newspapers and magazines.

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines.

"By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item.

"A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives."

William B. Ruger
Sturm, Ruger Firearms

[This letter was taken from the American Handgunner magazine, dated Sept 1992 page 18.]

And yes, it was in the past and Ruger has moved on but allot of folks like to knock S&W for giving in some to the antis when Bill Ruger was doing the same.

Jim

 

[contender]

I personally think that Bill was smarter than a lot of folks. I think he made those comments,, and such to try & stave off much more restrictive laws, rules & regs for the industry etc by TRYING to work with the politicans.
Sometimes you have to take a sucker punch to land a knockout punch.

 

[KWYJIBO]

This thread seems to have split into two separate topics, and I don't mind commenting on one of them...

As to the double action/single action issue, perhaps Wiki is referring to the two different methods by which the gun can be fired... 8)

I agree.

As I understand it, "double action" refers to the trigger's dual functions of

1) cocking the hammer/rotating the cylinder
and
2) releasing the hammer

It does not refer to the dual modes of firing, i.e., thumb-cocking the hammer (one mode) vs. pulling the trigger to cock/release the hammer (another mode). This caused me a lot of confusion when I began learning about revolvers many years ago.

Therefore, it is completely correct to use "double/single action" in referring to a revolver that can be fired either way. We have some revolvers (and autos too) that can only be fired in single action mode (the trigger only performs one action), some that can only be fired in double action mode (the trigger performs two actions, and there is no way to thumb-cock the hammer), and still others that can be fired in either mode.

I think people became accustomed to calling this last variety "double action" way back when there were very few double action only designs--generally, any gun capable of firing in double action mode would also fire single action. With so many double action only guns available today, we need to be more clear.

Incidentally, it's incorrect to use any of these terms with striker-fired guns. Their trigger mechanisms are completely different, so I feel they should only be called "striker-fired" and not "double action only."