PC4 carbine disassembly/reassembly......

[Bigboreshooter]

I've had my PC4 for a couple of years and have put several hundred rounds through it, mostly with handloads using 180gr hardcast lead truncated cone bullets. The gun has performed pretty much flawlessly everytime I've had it at the range.

I've always given it a wipedown and light spray with oil after each range trip, but I've never attempted to take it apart for a good cleaning. I guess I was just a little intimidated with disassembling it.

I figured with as much lead as I had put through it, the bore had to be due a good scrubbing. So, I got out the manual and tackled the project.

I must say that it was not nearly as complicated as I feared it might be. Everything came apart as designed, and the bore had NO lead buildup in it at all.......which was really a surprise. I guess they really were HARDCAST after all. :lol:

Everything got a good cleaning and light coating of oil. I feel much better now about it being ready to go if I really needed it. I also feel that I have a better understanding of how this gun actually works. It's really a pretty simple design.

Anyway, I overcame my fear of taking it apart...........and I just needed to tell someone. If you have one of these carbines and have been similarly intimidated about disassembly, fear not........it can be done.

 

[Al James]

Once taken apart you really come to appreciate the design even more so than if you have just been shooting it without disassembling the rifle. I love how they overcame the bolt inertia issue. Thanks for a great rifle COFFEEPOT!

 

[blume357]

Two rules...

Only do the basic field strip per the manual, never ever mess with the trigger group or other parts fitted in the stock.

2nd... remember that the big slide has to be partially pulled back when putting back together.... it's in the manual.

 

[Batty67]

Shot new to me PC4 yesterday at NRA Range in Fairfax VA. I failt o eject 1st magazine, and then 190 problem-free rounds. Fun to shoot and great accuracy to 50 yards (max I could shoot). Great.

Except I screwed up the trigger assembly when taking it apart for a cleaning and to try to bond/understand my new carbine. I cocked it back when disassembled to check out the action internally. Hammer would not go forward until I pushed the seer interrupter. Okay. Won't mess with it again! Promise. Clean the main assembly/receiver and barrel. Forget to keep the slide back a bit when placing receiver/barrel in stock. Won't move. Okay, another read through the manaul (and this thread), so I can fix that.

Problem is: I noticed the hammer strut and spring (strut goes through spring and into/adjacent to underside of hammer) somehow was misaligned to back of receiver so trigger won't funtion. So, I tried to "fish" it back into receiver back, and the spring and the rod pop out. Okay, not good. So hammer is semi-stuck so I cannot re-seat the spring and rod. But with only a small amount of force the hammer clicks all the way back. And now appears to be locked back. Really, really not good! Pushing it back forward does not seem to work and I don't want to force it. Oh, and that does not even touch getting the hammer strut/spring re-seated. Dang!

Very bummed. I'll take a fresh look in the morning but I might be spending some cash to have a gunsmith "fix" (re-assemble at least) the trigger assembly. Unless anyone has any great ideas.

 

[Sparks1957]

Ooops, guess you didn't read the post above yours. :shock:

Hope you can get it all fixed soon without a lot of hassle.

Does anyone know if any Youtube videos have been done on the disassembly/cleaning/reassembly of the PCs? I have yet to find any, but I'm very much a visual learner and it helps for me to see it.

 

[Batty67]

I knew the trigger assembly was off-limits. This all started by manually cocking it to see it fire with all moving internal parts (I've done this on all my firearms at one point). Would not as I noted above. That lead to an unfortunate string of actions. I'm sure it is not *broken* per se, but I cannot figure out how to get the hammer forward, reseat two pieces, etc.

 

[blume357]

I'd send it back to Ruger and pay them the toll.

 

[Batty67]

Definitelty an option. Again, I'm pretty sure it is not broken, but needs to be reassembled by a competent person, likely a gunsmith. I could do this locally. I was also looking into getting the trigger reworked to remove a lot of the take--up (and have the trigger "fixed" at the same time).

Anyone have (preferably informed) opinions of this person's work:
http://www.triggerwork.net/1022.html

Of course, the weapon is now cleaned extremly well.

 

[Batty67]

Update: I took the receiver apart to the maximum extent recoommended and cleaned the weapon thoroughly. Still at a loss at how to reassembly the trigger group. Heard back from Bill Springfield at triggerwork and got a quick response, $49 to fix trigger and do the trigger job (mostly remove the uptake and make trigger crisper). Great price, and it includes return shipping.

But, I've also heard NOT to mess with the trigger, so just dropped it off for a straight reassembly at a very local and skilled gunsmith. Hope to get it back tomorrow, and not cost me more than $50 tops. We'll see,

I still might end up getting the trigger job, but after shooting it once, I found the trigger a bit unusual, but consistent. So I might stick with it.

 

[Sparks1957]

Thanks for the update. It sounds like you will have it back in operation soon.

The trigger is very heavy on the PCs, but as you said, they are consistent. You'll get used to it in time; I know I have. If you do a trigger job in the end, let us know how it goes.

 

[blume357]

I would ask this Bill Springfield (what a good marketing name for a gun smith) how many trigger jobs he's done on PC4s and 9s... if he says he's done a few then I would go for it... if not then I would not.

 

[Batty67]

Next update: got the reassembled gun back from the gunsmith. He said he had to disassemble the entire trigger assembly to put strut and strut spring back, and basically make it functional (though it now has an extra tiny click right before the trigger breaks). $50. Ouch, but probably quite reasonable. He strongly warned me to put it on safe when cleaning and never, ever cock it unless fully assembled (and be very careful cleaning it). You'd think the instruction book would say "don't cock it/pull trigger" unless fully assembled.

And let me say even putting the receiver/barrel into the stock is a PITA of getting it *just right*. Despite all of this, I like the way it shoots and groups and the look and ergonomics. But I still might sent it to triggerworks, but not until I place a call per your suggestion blume357.

 

[blume357]

If the smith can assure you of what he's doing with the trigger group and that he's done it before then I would probably go for it, like I said. I just know of a number of folks who have tried to mess with the trigger group on their own, like you, and it never turns out well.

According to member Coffee Pot, who was in on the design of these rifles, that trigger pull design is intentional....

most Military rifles have a military trigger which is not ideal for target shooting but is when a whole lot of guys are running around with loaded guns.... addrinaline will make that 8-10 pound pull feel like one to two....

same with the police carbines.... they wanted the police to have to really intend to pull the trigger.... it takes some getting used to but on mine I've learned to like it... breaks clean when you put enough pull on it and not really that much take up before it 'snaps'.

Glad you got it fixed...

 

[Batty67]

Spoke with Bill Springfield today. He has done a few dozen PC4s/PC9s. Turns out what he does is disassemble and "stone polish" all the pieces to smooth it out, make sure it is working as well as it can when reassembled. He does not alter the trigger per se (which he says would be very bad to even try). He says it makes a large, but not huge, diffference. For $50 including shipping, and less than a week turn-around, I'll likely have it done.

As for me screwing with the trigger, all I did was cock it and reset the trigger while unassembled from the receiver. And all hell broke loose. Not like I was deliberately messing around with it.

 

[blume357]

Go for it and let us know how it works... I'm interested in this too... if he gets a good review from you then he might pick up more business from here.

 

[Batty67]

Shipping it today. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Steve A]

I'm interested too. I bought a PC9 after reading about the terrible trigger on these guns, but I didn't find mine to be that bad.

 

[Batty67]

I agree, the trigger is not bad, just unusual but consistent, which is the MAIN thing. But after talking to Bill Springfield, he convinced me that he's not altering the trigger function, just making it smoother and optimized, and the price is right. So I'll definitely let evetyone know what I think.

 

[Phila PD]

I think Coffee Pot told me not to remove any metal from the trigger assembly since the parts are only surface harden and if you buff/stone Thu this hardening the soft metal underneath will wear quickly and maybe cause the carbine to fire unintentionally.

I'll have to check my past e-mails with him to verify this info.

 

[Batty67]

Bill Springfield assured me that he has done the trigger work on a few dozen PC4s and PC9s and everyone seems to like it a lot. Oh, he did mention that in addition to smoothing and checking/optimizing the pieces and their functions, he makes one small "angle adjustment" (if I recall correctly) to one part. But that's it.

Phila PD, please post or PM me the relevant emails from Coffee Pot and I'll share with the gunsmith as/if appropriate. But I tend to think he's very familiar with the trigger assembly and how to improve the smoothness and consistency without changing the moving pieces and basic operation.

 

[Batty67]

Got my PC-4 lower with the "trigger job" from Bill Springfield of triggerwork.com. Same long take-up but the break seems cleaner and smoother. Of course, need to shoot it to really experience the difference. From mailing out to receiving it was about a week. So great turnaround time. Bill also took the time to talk with me twice and explain what he was going to do (described above).

He also explained what I did to screw up the trigger assembly in the first place and how to avoid screwing it up in the future! That is, unload, charge the handle, put on the safety, do any/all cleaning (carefully), and reassemble completely BEFORE pulling the trigger. To reiterate: never, ever cock or the hammer (or fire it if you do) when the stock is removed from the receiver.

 

[Batty67]

Okay, shot 100 rounds through it at NRA HQ range in Fairfax, VA to sight-in my recently refurbished (nitrogen purge to brighten reticle) Eotech. Trigger much smoother. Huge improvement? No. Major improvement? Yes. Worth $50 shipped with 1-week turn around time (including USPS)? Definitely!

Again, the basic trigger function was only minimally altered, but it was disassembled and stoned/smoothed out.

Some more observations on the PC4 in general. It really is heavy. Adding a pouch with two loaded magazines (if I could find one, which I doubt I could) would make in really, really heavy. Great ergonomics. Great accuracy. Bit of a PITA to disassemble and clean (I'm on the anal side of cleaning my guns), but now that I'm comfortable with assembly/reassembly, it is not too bad.