ArmedinAZ
Buckeye
Just read a comment on another forum that the P90 was designed to handle 10mm in case Ruger wanted to go to that caliber. Never heard that here before. Any thoughts? Truth?
P90 designed for 10mm?
- Thread starter ArmedinAZ
- Start date
Based on some comments that Bill Ruger Sr. made in an interview in 2002 for Shooting Times it seems that he was not a fan of the 10mm at all. He went so far as to imply that cartridges like the 10mm with "exaggerated performance" offended him.
I think the design could have easily handled the 10mm but it's hard to believe that someone with Ruger's attitude toward the 10mm would have built a gun in that chambering or with the intent to modify it to that chambering later.
I think the design could have easily handled the 10mm but it's hard to believe that someone with Ruger's attitude toward the 10mm would have built a gun in that chambering or with the intent to modify it to that chambering later.
P90
Single-Sixer
John, I think you are right. The P90 would handle the 10mm ok, but I don't think it had anything to do with the design of it.JohnKSa said:
reakin
Single-Sixer
I seem to remember posts on here by coffeepot where he stated in no uncertain terms that it was NOT designed to handle the 10mm. The recoil spring and slide inertia were not right for the sharper impulse or something like that.
reakin
reakin
Pops 1
Single-Sixer
Coffeepot was in on the design of the P90 and has stated many times it never was designed to be a 10mm. Pops
P94/GP100
Single-Sixer
He's told me that as well-that it was from the onset designed to be a .45 ACP pistol.
Best, Jon
Best, Jon
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NixieTube
Blackhawk
From the opposite side of the coin, if Ruger had wanted the P90 to do 10mm I think they would have offered it as an option.
It's very rare that any manufacturer designs something for a reason and then never tries to market it. What I'm saying is that if Ruger had designed the P90 for 10mm they would have marketed it that way in some area, even for limited sales, but not none at all. In other words it doesn't make sense to do the design and the tooling for something you're not ever going to try and sell. So by my reasoning (which is a little circular, absent knowing any better) they didn't market it that way because they never designed the P90 that way in the first place.
A 10mm version of the P90 would probably have been their most expensive variant and designing the gun for that and then not selling any doesn't make sense in retrospect. So my guess is that they never designed it that way.
It's very rare that any manufacturer designs something for a reason and then never tries to market it. What I'm saying is that if Ruger had designed the P90 for 10mm they would have marketed it that way in some area, even for limited sales, but not none at all. In other words it doesn't make sense to do the design and the tooling for something you're not ever going to try and sell. So by my reasoning (which is a little circular, absent knowing any better) they didn't market it that way because they never designed the P90 that way in the first place.
A 10mm version of the P90 would probably have been their most expensive variant and designing the gun for that and then not selling any doesn't make sense in retrospect. So my guess is that they never designed it that way.
P90
Single-Sixer
The P90 will handle the +p loads. It needs a 20lb recoil spring if you shoot many. The P90 is to the Autos, what the Blackhawk is to the Revolvers.
This link was provided as proof the P90 was designed for 10mm. If Bill Ruger is quoted accurately I read it that he really didn't like 10mm and wouldn't be bothered with it. Maybe he felt the weapon design could handle 10mm, not necessarily that it was designed specifically for the 10.
See what you think: http://tripatlas.com/P_Series
See what you think: http://tripatlas.com/P_Series
Flash
Buckeye
I used to own a Delta Elite and fired many 10mm rounds in it and even with it's steel frame, the 10mm hammered it to hell and back. I can't imagine shooting the 10mm in a aluminum framed handgun and having it last. I have a P90 and love it but a 10mm platform it isn't.
NixieTube
Blackhawk
ArmedinAZ said:
I think you're right and the gun was never manufactured for 10mm because Bill R. didn't want it to be a 10mm gun, el periodo. That doesn't mean someone at Ruger didn't draw a blueprint for one that is now shredded or in the archives somewhere, but I don't think it was ever tooled. He says they could have made it at the "drop of a hat" - and my reading is that he decided it just wasn't going to happen, because he was "a little bit offended" by the "exaggerated performance" of the cartridge.
Reading between the lines a little and knowing a bit about what made Bill Ruger tick, I can guess that he wasn't interested in making the P90 into one of the most powerful civilian handguns in the world. Ultimately the FBI went with the .40 S&W because the 10mm was too much, and I don't think he wanted to manufacture the 10mm gun and have it all over the place. He didn't want to put that gun up for sale in that chambering to civilians, which was very smart in the context of the time. These are the kinds of decisions that the leader of the company makes, even if he had a blueprint for it sitting somewhere he just didn't want to build that gun in that caliber, in his own words, and his word was the final say-so.
The objective after the Miami incident was to give the FBI an advantage over their adversaries in terms of side arms. I don't think Ruger wanted to go and start dispensing 10mm handguns to the public after the FBI rejected it as too powerful. I'm sure there's a lot of untold backstory here as well.
Flash
Buckeye
JNewell said:
:roll:
drew76
Bearcat
JNewell said:
+1. The S&W 10XX series were designed for the 10mm and held up well from what I understand.
The 10mm Glocks seem to stand up to it well. Back when the 10mm was starting to wind down from its initial popularity boom, I got interested in the caliber and started looking around for a 10mm pistol with a reputation for durability. At the time, there were varied reports on the durability just about every 10mm pistol on the market with the exception of the G20. Everything I read about it indicated that it would hold up to a constant diet of full power 10mm.
I had checked out a couple of Glocks and really didn't care for them at all, but given the universally good reports on the durability of the Glock 20 I decided to give it a try. I don't claim to have put mine through any extended torture testing, but it's held up well to what shooting I've done with it. I did put 1000 rounds through it once in a single day. I took close-up magnified pictures of likely wear areas before and after the test and they showed nothing at all of interest other than possibly some finish wear. Even that was inconclusive.
ArmedinAZ said:
I have both and like them both.
I shoot the 20 a lot in USPSA, bowling pins, and CC matches.
The 29 is better as a concealment gun. I shoot it enough to be proficient with it, but being smaller it kicks a bit more, and the small grip is too small for my hands. I put a model 20 mag or a Pearce extension on a 10 round model 29 mag so it fits my hand better.
Neither of them have shown any wear at all from shooting the 10MM round.
Interestingly enough, the recoil spring is heavy enough for 10MM, but I can stuff .40S&W in the mags and they will cycle just fine.
My first 10MM was a Delta Elite. I sold it, and am a Glock convert now. High capacity, bay-bee.... 8)
PHESPE
Bearcat
EAA Witness 10mm Auto Pistol
Have one - good shooter, recoil isn't bad
http://www.chuckhawks.com/eaa_witness_10mm.htm
PHE
Have one - good shooter, recoil isn't bad
http://www.chuckhawks.com/eaa_witness_10mm.htm
PHE
