OM Flattop 357 ejector question- Update last post

[29aholic]

Ok I have OMFTBH from 1958 I bought off the forum a few years ago. It is a shooter grade gun, which is right up my alley. My only issue with it, is when the cylinder indexes the chambers dont line up with the ejector. Almost but not enough so I can eject the empties. It will start to go in but that's about it. I dont have any reason to believe it's the wrong ejector but dont know enough to tell.
I guess the question is should I look for a different part and if so what am I looking for? Or, should I modify the existing part to work?
BTW, I dont remember the serial number (5 digits I think) but the 1958 year is correct.

 

[Kanook]

Has it been converted?

 

[WIL TERRY]

DID YOU pull it to half-cock ?

 

[29aholic]

No it has not been converted, and I'll ignore the half-cock question...I've had a LOT of single actions.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Is it possible that your "old model" has an incorrect ejector rod? Ruger has issued round rods and rods with one or two flats----to prevent binding with chamber exits. Something to look at.
David Bradshaw

 

[29aholic]

Is it possible that your "old model" has an incorrect ejector rod? Ruger has issued round rods and rods with one or two flats----to prevent binding with chamber exits. Something to look at.
David Bradshaw

I guess that's what I am getting at. I believe it only has one flat. I am pretty sure it is not round. That's what made me think of filing the rod itself to fit/work.

I know the ejector button has changed over the years but I dont have the experience to know the difference to be able to tell if I have the wrong one or not besides the fact it doesn't work.
Heck maybe I have a parts gun and didn't know it.

 

[CraigC]

...I'll ignore the half-cock question...I've had a LOT of single actions.

Yes but we don't know that. :wink:

 

[29aholic]

...I'll ignore the half-cock question...I've had a LOT of single actions.

Yes but we don't know that. :wink:

Point taken...sorry if I sounded crappy.

 

[contender]

Look at the end of the ER button. Is it flat, or does it have a "dimple" in it? If it's dimpled,, it's most likely a correct rod & all. I have a few Flattops, and some have round rods, & some have "half-moon" rods. When I'm loading or unloading,, & indexing the cylinder, A little movement either direction allows proper loading or unloading.
Are you saying the rod actually catches on the edge of the cylinder? If so, try this. Take the entire ejector rod housing & all off the gun. Remove the rod & see if it is bent.
Just thinking aloud to try & help.

 

[29aholic]

Look at the end of the ER button. Is it flat, or does it have a "dimple" in it? If it's dimpled,, it's most likely a correct rod & all. I have a few Flattops, and some have round rods, & some have "half-moon" rods. When I'm loading or unloading,, & indexing the cylinder, A little movement either direction allows proper loading or unloading.
Are you saying the rod actually catches on the edge of the cylinder? If so, try this. Take the entire ejector rod housing & all off the gun. Remove the rod & see if it is bent.
Just thinking aloud to try & help.

Thanks I'll check the style and profile tonight. I know the rod is not bent, but the taper at the end just starts to go in the cylinder and that's it. It indexes tight enough there is no movement to play with.

 

[SAJohn]

I have a 1960 .357 flattop that does the same thing but only when briskly pulling the hammer back to half cock. Inertia allows the cylinder to over rotate just a tad too much. This does not happen when I manually rotate the cylinder to an index position nor if I slowly draw back the hammer to half cock.

However, the tip of my ejector rod is stopped by the front flat of the cylinder. It does not start into the cylinder chamber and then stop. As Contender said, I suspect you have a bent rod.

 

[Hondo44]

Curtis,

Your Rod is not likey bent. Do you have the 1/2 round rod? The half round rods have to be in correct positioning relative to the button to align with the chamber.

Your rod has turned in the ejector rod button. Take it out of the gun. You'll notice the rod goes thru the button and is peened over. Check for movement by trying to turn the button slightly on the rod. If it moves, that's the problem. I've seen this before on heavily used guns.

Turn the rod all the way one way and carefully assemble it in the gun. It it lines up properly, remove the rod and gently peen it tight again in that position. If it doesn't line up, pull the cylinder out, push the rod half way down, grasp the tip of the rod and turn it tight in the other direction. Replace the cylinder and test for alignment again. If it lines up now, peen it in that position. You may find the correct position is somewhere in between the two extremes.

If you can't get it to work, you can always replace it with the later smaller diameter full round rod.

 

[GasGuzzler]

So my half round rod in a steel housing is older than my NMBH? Man, I always hoped so...

 

[NitroAcres]

With the cyl out, how does it line up with the hole in the frame?? Does it slide thru the full range without contact?

On my '57 the ejector is round, and lines up dead center of the frame, with the ejector rod moved thru the cyl there is about .030 gap at 9 o'clock, between the rod and cyl. with the cyl rotated to center of loading gate.

 

[Ruger36]

Curtis Not sure if your saying that no matter where you hand move the cyl. its alignment is off with ER.Or when it indexes by its self, Then the pawl and trigger come into play

 

[Hondo44]

Ruger36,
You're right.
It would be difficult for the ER not to index with the chamber wherever he moved the cylinder, though. In his 1st post he said "when the cylinder indexs" so I'm convinced he means it's resting against the pawl. And if the cases are going in and out of the chambers thru the loading gate w/o interference, his Pawl should be close enough.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Come to think of it, Contender, I've seen enough the old Colt's with bent ejector buttons, which tends to bend the rod, too. Likewise, Rugers to a lesser extent.

During development of the .357 Maximum, Bill Ruger, Jr., hardened the long ejector, as various of the experimental ammo was, to put it charitable, tall in the proof pressure zone. Believe the hardened ejector rod continued through production.

A loose button can be secured with a touch of the TIG welder. Might be better overall to install a new rod with moon or crescent button.
David Bradshaw

 

[Hondo44]

David,
Remember the Hawkeye ejector buttons with the built in buttress?

 

[David Bradshaw]

Jim.... I try to squeeze from my pea brain the features of the Hawkeye, having just been reminded by one Mr. Ruger that the .357 Maximum we shot was converted to transfer bar, which required casting a few new parts, and was the ONLY prototype Maximum Hawkeye. I recall an interference in loading and/or ejection, until Ruger made an adjustment, after which it worked fine. I'm thinkingb the problem was more with ejection, as we shot the the same ROCKS & DYNAMITE experimental ammo Hawkeye we subjected the SRM's to; which treatment the guns took in stide. Ruger, Jr.'s intent was to put the .357 Maximum Hawkeye into production. After the mass-condemnation rites in the press, the plan was dropped.

The Hawkeye has dual firing pins, as the "cylinder" is a rotating breach block containing the second firing pin.

Posting of the Hawkeye photo by Flatgate under Long Barrel Revolvers swept dust off old memories. The photo shows a decidedly non-standard ejector button. Perhaps Flatgate will post photos and an exploded view under the "Long Barrel Revolver" topic.
David Bradshaw

 

[29aholic]

Sorry guys I have been tied up and had to put this on hold. I will check on things tonight and get back with you.
I did remember I put the ER from my NMFT 44spl and if I recall it worked but still "drug" through the chamber.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I was of the impression that the Hawkeye had only a single, long firing pin within the breech block that was struck by the extended hammer (resembling the one on the Old Army).

Am I confused? (Well, I'm usually confused . . . in this case perhaps I'm just wrong.)

 

[Ruger36]

Hondo I have over the years broken the tips off a couple of triggers, but then I have also changed and altered pawls. without the gun in hand was just throwing something out there

 

[David Bradshaw]

Ale-8(1).... believe you are correct. Except, the Hawkeye .357 Maximum with transfer bar required a firing pin in the frame to start things off.
David Bradshaw

 

[Ale-8(1)]

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[BIgMuddy]

Curtis,

Your Rod is not likey bent. Do you have the 1/2 round rod? The half round rods have to be in correct positioning relative to the button to align with the chamber.

Your rod has turned in the ejector rod button. Take it out of the gun. You'll notice the rod goes thru the button and is peened over. Check for movement by trying to turn the button slightly on the rod. If it moves, that's the problem. I've seen this before on heavily used guns.

Turn the rod all the way one way and carefully assemble it in the gun. It it lines up properly, remove the rod and gently peen it tight again in that position. If it doesn't line up, pull the cylinder out, push the rod half way down, grasp the tip of the rod and turn it tight in the other direction. Replace the cylinder and test for alignment again. If it lines up now, peen it in that position. You may find the correct position is somewhere in between the two extremes.

If you can't get it to work, you can always replace it with the later smaller diameter full round rod.

This is my guess too as I have a FT 357 with the same issue. I appreciate the tip on peening it in place to fix. I had another rod in my parts bin and replaced it. The button on the problem ER is very loose.

Dan

 

[Hondo44]

Ale-8(1).... believe you are correct. Except, the Hawkeye .357 Maximum with transfer bar required a firing pin in the frame to start things off.
David Bradshaw

Very intereting, yes the addition of the transfer bar would require a two piece firing pin while the originals are single as Ale said.

Here's a shot of mine showing the buttressed ER Button which was a separate piece pinned to the rod:

What was the time period of the 357 Max prototype and what were you referring to with: "After the mass-condemnation rites in the press"?

 

[29aholic]

Okay I messed with it for over an hour last night. For the record the ER has the dimpled button, and the half round rod. I got it to work initially by messing with the cylinder but not consistently. After taking it apart and putting it back together several times I stuck the rod in a vise and tightened the button. Although it was not noticeably loose apparently it was because when I put it back together the last time it worked the way it should. I am going to put a few rounds through when the snow melts and see if it holds. If it does, I'm good. If not I will tighten back in place so I can put some reference marks on it. I will then take it completely apart, clean it, and reassemble with locktite.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Hawkeye transfer bar .357 Maximum----1981.

Overall, press reaction to the .357 Maximum was ignorant. Curious, how sharpshooters took to it, while cynics ran from it.
David Bradshaw