OK to shoot both cast and jacketed bullets??

[Hole Shooter]

Can some of you high volume shooters/reloaders please tell me if you shoot both jacketed bullets and hard cast lead bullets out of the same handgun?? I have heard some advise to shoot either jacketed or cast bullets but don’t shoot both of them in the same handgun. I have been loading and shooting jacketed bullets out of my SBH hunter (44 mag) for several years but for some reason I’m getting the itch to try some commercial hard cast bullets.

If I were to load some commercial cast bullets such as Beartooth Bullets or Cast Performance bullets or Oregon Trail, are the reloading procedures the same as for loading jacketed bullets? Is anything done differently for cast bullets?

Thanks in advance. All replies are very much appreciated.
HS

 

[Rick Courtright]

Can some of you high volume shooters/reloaders please tell me if you shoot both jacketed bullets and hard cast lead bullets out of the same handgun??

Hi,

You're probably gonna see as many replies that say it's "ok" as you will that say "don't do it." Personally, I shoot both and haven't seen any real problem.

Long ago, I heard an adage that "Lead after copper is ok, copper after lead is not."

I guess the theory behind that advice is the jacketed bullets tend to "iron" any residual leading into the barrel, making it incredibly hard to clean (anyone who's restored a dirty ol' milsurp barrel to shooting condition is familiar w/ the "sandwich" effect of powder and copper fouling over the years.) Some who subscribe to that theory will suggest IF you want to shoot copper after lead, be sure to do a really good cleaning first and you'll be ok.

At the same time, there's advice from a variety of sources, some rather reputable, that shooting a couple of jacketed bullets after lead will tend to "push" some of the leading out, making the barrel easier to clean.

Some will say never do that as the lead build up will cause pressures to rise dangerously.

I dunno what to believe about all this!

What I do know is if you have a "rough" barrel that's causing leading problems, cleaning it well, then shooting a fair amount of copper plated/jacketed ammo to help "fill" the nooks and crannies w/ some copper fouling CAN be a cheap and dirty way to smooth it out for later use w/ lead...

Rick C

 

[J Miller]

I shoot both interchangeably when ever I get rich enough to buy jacketed bullets. Not very often though. Usually it's lead bullets cos I can get 'em cheaper.

Joe

 

[Rclark]

are the reloading procedures the same as for loading jacketed bullets? Is anything done differently for cast bullets?

No. Just the powder charge will be sightly different.

I shoot both jacketed and lead. More lead than jacketed.

 

[Donaldjr1969]

I have shot jacketed after lead in my Super Redhawk and yet I have not had the problems with lead getting ironed into the grooves. My experiences have seemed to have given credence to the mentality that the jacketed round acts as a scrubber to remove leading. Indeed after firing lead and then running a patch of lead remover cloth compared to firing lead, then jacketed, then using the lead remover cloth, I find far less lead, if any, in the barrel when firing jacketed after lead. Inspection with a very bright bore light tends to corroborate this.

Now it should be noted that I do not fire soft swaged lead bullets in my gun. The softest I have fired is around 13-14BHN and the majority of my bullets seem to be between 16BHN and 22BHN. So maybe the harder alloy is why it seems to be cleaned by firing jacketed rounds afterwards.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

Some folks caution firing lead after copper without removing copper fouling. Think using solder on copper pipes. I follow this practice, though I have not tested whether that matters.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I have shot both lead and copper plated bullets out of several guns and I will give you my experience. When I shot commercial lead bullets I got considerable leading. This is probably because I did not get the load, lube, bullet hardness and shape all in harmony. I believe with patients it would be possible to get a lead bullet load in all the guns that did not lead so much. Personally I did not want to spend that time. So now after shooting a few lead bullets I will shoot a few of the copper plated bullets (reduced pressure) to clean the barrel. When I get home the bore is almost clean, no leading. I believe one must be very careful to not shoot high pressure jacketed bullets down a bore that is heavily leaded as a pressure spike could result.

Some folks say that a gun gets broken-in to either lead or jacketed bullets. I don't know for sure but I do know that shooting jacketed bullets helped to break-in a new Redhawk for me.

Best advise: Go ahead and see what happens. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[WESHOOT2]

With great regularity.

I shoot jacketed, plated, and cast bullets.
ONCE in a while I'll send some swaged bullets through the 357s (loaded in 38 cases, natch).

 

[GP100man]

I shoot only lead , I have 2 GPs that have never had a copper bullet down te bore since they were born !!!

Polished the bore with JB Bore Paste (a cleaner that feels very mildly pasty but not a polish feel like Flitz)

Never looked back !!! & $$ spent that would have been spent on jacketed I spend on moulds !

All though & do have 5,000 Gas Checks in storage !!

The Redhawks have`nt seen a copper bullet in a number of yrs.

I`ll say my fun money started to decline sharply after 9/11

So I`ve learned to maintain a level of performance from lead boolits !!!

 

[Hole Shooter]

Many many thanks to all. This is the greatest bunch of folks!!! Sounds like I most certainly can shoot both jacketed and hard cast lead bullets in my SBH Hunter. I will give the gun a good cleaning before switching from one bullet type to the other and I should be ok.

I have a good supply of Speer and Hornady jacketed bullets on hand right now but I think maybe a hard cast lead bullet might be better for hog hunting. However, I bet several of you have killed many hogs with a jacketed bullet.

Thanks again for your advice!!
HS

 

[Bucks Owin]

I shoot both interchangeably when ever I get rich enough to buy jacketed bullets. Not very often though. Usually it's lead bullets cos I can get 'em cheaper.

Joe

Same here, although the past few years I shoot fewer and fewer jacketed projectiles in my sixguns. Been said before, cast bullets and sixguns go together like....(add favorite saying)

Yes, there's a learning curve involved with shooting "leadfree" homegrown bullets but the rewards are many for those who persevere....(and casting is a fine pastime in it's own right IMO... 8) )

 

[APEXDUCK]

I've never head of such a thing. Cast or jacket may shoot to different points of impact but in a pistol I can't see the harm in shooting either or both. I think it is mystical mumbo jumbo myself. Shoot what you can afford and don't think about it. There are for more other variables involved to think that cast verses jacketed bullets would somehow affect the barrel to the point it would not shoot one other the other well or ruin as barrel for one or the other.

APEXDUCK

 

[WESHOOT2]

Fouling from either can cause both a noticeable change or lack of accuracy, can increase fouling, and in drastic circumstances can create the potential for elevated, even catastrophic, pressure.

 

[Tx gun runner]

Copper and lead don't mix well in a bore . Copper fouling in a barrel makes a gun leads up easier with cast bullet , a leaded up barrel is not as accurate as a unleaded up barrel . Most people don't need a very accurate gun and won't see the difference anyway . After shooting 100 + cast bullets in my cast bullet shooter only guns . I can clean my bore with a wet patch then a dry one and I done , except for the forcing cone [which I cut to 11 degrees to help bullet enter bore a little gentler ] needs most my gun cleaning and attention . Normally the harder bullet is needed for bottom feeders lead up faster then soft ones . Bullet not fitting cylinder in wheel gun will cause leading also .

 

[jakeb]

Hate to drag this up from the grave...but what about shooting jacketed bullets after gas checked bullets? Vice Versa?

Doesn't a gas checked bullet act closely to a jacketed bullet?

 

[Dale53]

I shoot nothing but my own cast bullets in my revolvers. As much as I shoot, I would be in the poor house if it weren't for casting my own bullets.

All of my deer have been taken with cast bullets with MUCH satisfaction. I can get any performance level I want with cast bullets (and you can too, if you work at it).

Here's another aspect of the problem that is not often discussed. Take a low pressure round like the .45 ACP in a 1911. Two of my 1911's are "built up" match guns that will easily shoot under 2" at fifty yards off a Ransom Rest. I have put 100,000 rounds (by actual count) through one of them and it STILL shoots with match accuracy with the same barrel. if I had been shooting factory hardball through it, I would have had to replace the barrel at every 5000 rounds or so (Ransom Rest tests by the Advanced Marksmanship Unit has proven this). That should be motivation enough to send most of us to using cast - it sure did me.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Good shooting to all of you and a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all!

Dale53

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Hate to drag this up from the grave...but what about shooting jacketed bullets after gas checked bullets? Vice Versa?

Doesn't a gas checked bullet act closely to a jacketed bullet?

I believe a 'gas checked' bullet will shoot as clean as a jacketed bullet and can de driven to nearly the same velocity.

...Jimbo

 

[Dale53]

In most guns properly set up for cast bullets (I currently load and shoot cast in .32's, .38's/.357's, .44 Special/Magnum, 45 ACP, Auto Rim, .45 Colt) there will be few to none that will give you problems when shooting cast. I shoot a LOT. I get NO leading in any of them. I use almost entirely plain base bullets. Thousands of other shooter do it, also.

My magnums are loaded to "full house" specs without issue.

Dale53

 

[Nowata]

Good grief, I'm glad we all agree on that!!!LOL LOL
As far a reloading. virtually all .44 copper jacketed bullets are .429 or .43. Cast bullets for the .44 can be had from .429 to .432. You want to get cast bullets that are .001 or .002 larger than .429. I shoot .430 in my Taurus 44 and .431 in my Bisley Hunter. this helps them engage the rifling(lead being softer than copper). Also, for loads over 1000-1100fps use a gas check. The hot gases can vaporize the lead and add to barrel leading. Also, your resizing die will put case to factory specs, and you will need an extra step in reloading process to expand the neck just a hair to accept a .430, .431 or .432 bullet. Lee makes an expanding die, Lyman makes an "M" die necking expanding die. If you don't the case will have a discernable bulge where the bullet is in the case, sometimes buckling the case as you seat the bullet.
Reloading cast bullets just requires the extra step to expand the neck just a bit, and a little experimentation on what size of bullet(and brand) groups the best for you. Cast bullets are alarmingly cheaper than copper jacketed ones, so it is well worth the little bit of extra effort.
Pet plinker: 200gr. RN and 6.0gr. Trail Boss
Hunter: 260gr. WFNGC from Montana Bullet works and 11gr. Unique(about 1100fps)
Good Luck!!

 

[44shootist]

I shoot both, mostly lead cause these bullet companys that make jacketed have got so greedy I can't afford them any more.
I shoot 6 jacketed after I shoot my lead bullets to help clean the lead out of the barrel, whether it helps or not I don't know but it makes me feel better.
Loading them is the same, just different powder loads, Oregon trail bullets have worked well out of all the ones I have tryed more accurate than the Speer lead I tryed in my guns.
Just to bad the big jacketed bullet makers don't have a clue that they could get most all the bullet business if they would make their bullets affordable, guess they like to make less and sell less, and come up with fancey new names to call their bullets so the feel justified in raising prices when ever they want, like deep curl, or power core, who do they think they are fooling?

 

[Dale53]

44shootist;
I think slamming the bullet makers is an unfair hit. Our local scrap yard is paying $3.00 a lb for scrap copper. Metals prices are why the component prices are so high.

I have cast my own bullets for sixty years for three reasons:
1 - Cost (my lead has cost me little over the years and I MAKE time to cast
2 - Shooting great targets and having hunting success (everything from rabbits
to deer) with my own bullets adds it's own special flavor
3 - I can oft times get better results with my own loads (both target and
hunting.

Win, Win, Win...

Dale53

 

[44shootist]

Dale, think about it there is only a very small amount of copper in the bullets, bullet have gone up far more than medal prices, I don't buy that at all.

 

[Rugerbilly]

I'm with CDFingers, 44shootist, and a few others here.
When you are at the range for an hour or more, putting cylinder after cylinder of cast lead target ammo through your revolver, every 4th or 5th cylinder switch to jacketed bullets. These will remove some of the lead deposit in the barrel, and help maintain accuracy.
This is even more important if shooting swaged lead bullets, which are even softer than cast, and will foul those grooves PDQ.

 

[44shootist]

Rugerbilly, I take a cleaning rod with wire brush with me to the range and run it through as needed, you can tell when your shoots start getting off it's time to run the rod through, it helps a lot.
I usally shoot about 100 rounds of 44mag. each time at the range.

 

[volshooter]

I reload both for my .44 SBH. I use a hard cast WFP 290gr and the famous 240 HP.
I don't buy off the shelf you might say but I buy my hard cast directly from the maker. On one of my visits to his home he gave me some tips. He told me his bullets would not lead at 1500+ fps. I did extensive research and trials and found the results surprising. A 290gr hard cast will fly faster than a 240 JHP with the same powder load. ( If I remember right it was about 300 fps)
I have shot these 290WFP over 21.5gr of WW296 for many years. I used a chrony to get the fps and the above load averages 1530 fps. No leading, no gas checks and outstanding accuracy! When you have that much going downrange, expansion is not needed. I actually shot through a cast iron skillet. The bullet went through the skillet that was hanging on an old freezer, as well as the freezer and a treated 4x4 behind it. This was as best as I remember between 75-100 yards. I gave up on expanding pistol bullets.

 

[Rugerbilly]

Rugerbilly, I take a cleaning rod with wire brush with me to the range and run it through as needed, you can tell when your shoots start getting off it's time to run the rod through, it helps a lot.
I usally shoot about 100 rounds of 44mag. each time at the range.

Good idea, 44.
Actually, there's one more reason that I put a full-power jacketed bullet handloads through my .45 every 5th cylinder - - - I just like to feel the gun buck like a pissed-off mule. 8) Shooting hard-recoiling rounds is so exhilarating, and won't hurt a Blackhawk unless you give the thing a steady diet of such ammo.
I always feel better on my way out of the range than I did on the way in .