NM Vaquero conversion options

[ledzep816]

Well, I finally found a Davidsons 45 LC/ACP 4 5/8" NM Vaquero. Picked it up yesterday and put 50 rounds of ACP through it. Nice little gun, not a huge fan of the grip, but I hate the hammer.

I used to own a 357 bisley which was super comfortable. Bisley hammers seem to require extensive metal shaping to fit a Vaquero. I've done some research about Super Blackhawk conversion but im not a fan that the cylinder frame ears extend past the hammer and the transfer bar pinches. Montado hammers would be perfect, but are non existent.

So here's the situation. Would it be worth trying to find an entire bisley grip frame, hammer, trigger to convert the gun, or look to purchase a NM Bisley Vaquero 45 LC and have my .45 Acp cylinder fitted to that?

I really don't shoot 45 LC....

 

[Bob Wright]

Check with Dave Clements. I believe he has Bisley type hammers for the Vaquero/Blackhawk Ruers.

http://www.clementscustomguns.com/home.html


Bob Wright

 

[contender]

If it were me, I'd just locate a Bisley model & try it. If you have a cylinder, it'll likely drop in. BUT,,, measure the OAL of your 45 ACP cylinder first. Then only buy a gun with the same or shorter cylinder dimensions.
Or, if you do find a gun, and the cylinder is longer, you can take the parts off the Bisley, put them in your Vaquero, and sell the other stuff.

 

[Hondo44]

If I'm correct, your brand new 45 Convertible on the "New Vaquero" mid frame has the small XR3 size plowhandle grip and ugly 'long horn' hammer, right?

Since you don't like either one, the answer to your question for me is clearly yes, purchase a Bisley "New Vaquero" 45 LC and have your .45 ACP cylinder fitted to that if needed; the simplest and least costly way to go. If the Gods are with you, there's and excellent chance your ACP cyl will be a drop in for the Bisley you find. The only real issue is the over all length of the ACP cyl. RARELY are there any timing issues.

When shopping for your Bisley 45 Colt, bring along your ACP cyl and try it in your potential purchase. If your cyl is too short and moves back and forth in the Bisley, having it fitted will be more costly. If it is too long or fits just right, buy the gun! If too long, a few strokes on the front cyl hub with file and stone will fit it to the new Bisley frame.

Especially if you feel adapting the Bisley hammer to a standard grip frame requires extensive metal shaping. Because although it's rather simple, it tells me that you will not want to deal with the other simple fitting required to swap a Bisley grip/hammer/trigger on your gun or the additional cost, trust me on that!

Hope that helps and good luck in your hunt,

EDIT: While I was typing, I see that Contender has posted, and we basically agree on our recommendated course of action.

 

[ledzep816]

Ya, its the long horn hammer and xr3 grip.....whoever approved the design of that hammer, grrr. I may try some gunfighter grips to help out with the feel though.

 

[Hondo44]

I like to swap the XR3 grips to my .22s and .32s because it slams my knuckle on larger calibered guns. The XR3-RED size grip frame from my .22 & .32 went on my 45 NEW Vaquero (and others), also swapped for the old style Vaq hammer from my NM flat top .44!

 

[Joe S.]

If you like the Montado hammer, just buy a Super Blackhawk hammer from Ruger. If in stock they are less than $40 shipped, and should drop in. Same profile as the Montado hammer. Just different "checkering".

I added one to my Blackhawk Anniversary Flattop. Dropped right in.

 

[Jim Puke]

I really don't understand all of this dislike for the long hammer.

When I got my 44 special Vaquero Sheriff, I was planning to change the hammer even before it got to my dealer. However, after a few minutes of handling the gun, I was of the mindset that I would not consider changing it as I loved the leverage and overall functionality of the hammer...and it is still on the gun and I still feel just as strongly about it. Oh well, different strokes...

 

[Hondo44]

Joe,

A great alternative. Unfortunately Ruger has not seen fit to enlarge the SBH hammer base to fit the increased ear height of the post 1997 grip frames that ledzep816 correctly complains about. Having been introduced since 1997, the Montado hammers and the new mid-frame flat top standard hammers have a proper base size. Otherwise it takes some tedious ear shaping, and even re-bluing on blue grip frames.

FT mid-frame hammers in a New Vaq like my Sheriffs Model have an excellent hammer base to ear fit:

One advantage of the long horn New Vaq hammer is that grinding some length off the spur will give you a perfect Montado/SBH low profile. Re-grooving it with a 40 line per inch checkering file is a piece of cake.

 

[Joe S.]

I can see how mine sits a little lower than the Montado hammer. I've never noticed that until you pointed it out... Thanks. Now its gonna bug me. Lol

 

[gak]

Actually lots of choices here. I too couldn't abide the longhorn hammer and so swapped in an SBH on one NV, and a same profile Montado into my NV Sheriff. I did not think of the ground down longhorn mentioned, sounds an interesting option--essentially like a slimmed SBH hammer. I've also lately been thinking of re-swapping in a regular XR3 Red for the SBH for a more traditional look on the one NV, and using the SBH on another project. One thought on the NV's XR3 grips, don't give up just yet. If the main issue is the profile (viewed end-on), as it sounds it might be from your (OP) mention of Gunfighters, a change to just about any custom set from folk such as our very own Private Schultz, Cary Chapman, Sack Peterson etc, will give you a different profile that'll change the whole feel. Those would be my suggestions for quickest/simplest/cheapest route - SBH/Montado hammer and grip (panel) change.

Before abandoning the Montado idea altogether, inquire with your local SA smiths; if mine is any indication, they may have some in their spares box. I lucked into two (the other for a friend's Sheriff). Seems someone(s) with Montados wanted a Bisley hammer installed instead. Rare, yes, but they're out there.

 

[Joe S.]

I actually orefer the long hammer on my Vaquero. But lrefer the lower hammer on the Blackhawks. But i also prefer the new XR3/ New Vaquero grip frame.

 

[Varminterror]

Ledzep,

Would you be interested in a little horse trading? (Hondo's going to appreciate this )

If you are interested, I have a bisley stainless grip frame with Ivory grips from an old Vaquero that I'd trade towards that XR3 New Vaq frame. I'll knock the horns off of the grip frame for you (difference between old Vaq and New Vaq cylinder frame, so all you'd have to do to make it work on your revolver is cut the small divot in the lower flange for the free-spin pawl with a dremel tool. Hondo44 has pics of this process, and Jim's always generous about sharing his pics and knowledge to help guys along.

I bought this revolver unfired, knowing that I would change the grip frame, so there aren't any miles on it. I swapped it out for a birdshead frame, so the Bisley grip frame is just sitting in a box.

Pic here from the GB listing that I purchased this revolver:

I'm in need of an XR3 grip frame with Ivory grips to make a trade towards a Birdshead New Vaq grip frame with Talo grips on a deal I'm working with another user on another forum. He needs the New Vaq frame now, I need the birdshead frame he has. If I trade YOU the Bisley/Ivory frame I have for your XR3, I can trade YOUR frame to him for his Birdshead grip frame, and we all have what we want.

I'm assuming your convertible has the black rubber grips? I don't have any use for the black rubber grips, so you can keep them or sell them elsewhere if you like. No need for your trigger or hammer either, so again, you can sell those elsewhere to recoup some of your expense.

So here's my offer: $45 + your grip frame and grips and I'll swap you my Bisley frame, Ivory grips, Bisley Hammer and Trigger. The $45 is this: $15 to replace the trigger, which I need, but can get another. $30 for the Ivory Bisley grips (big upgrade over the black rubbers), which will go towards the $70 ivory New Vaq grips that I need. I'm throwing the Bisley Hammer in for free (~$30 for a new one). You pay shipping my way, I pay shipping your way, so call that a wash.

If your New Vaq is a locking model, we can talk about those parts to get you up and running with this grip frame (non-locking model).

Interested?

 

[ledzep816]

I am interested.

Is there a difference between New & Old Bisley vaquero grip frames? Or is just the cylinder frame that is different? I was actually thinking swapping someone grip frames would be a good alternative. I just want to make sure the lines/angles of the old bisley grip frame would match my new vaquero cylinder frame.

What do you mean by knocking down the "ears" on the bisley frame. I can do a little blending if necessary but I didn't think the bisley frame had ears. I can do a little blending/polishing, but not if there is metal missing haha.

If I could get the pictures of the mod I would need to do I wouldn't mind, is that the only different between the new/old bisley frames?

My Vaquero came with the wood oxblood grips which was a nice surprise and is a non locking model.

Have I left anything out?

 

[Hondo44]

Bisley grip frames for the original Vaquero and the NEW Vaq are the same size. The only two differences are:

1. The horn projections: shown protruding to the front under the hammer shown here pointing to the left:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Hamm_Ruger-SA-GripFrames/Dsc00094.jpg
Varminterror said he would knock off the 'horns', not the ears. The ears are pointing straight up in the photo above and straight at you in the photo below.

2. The divot: For the NEW Vaq you need to add the divot shown on the right:

 

[Varminterror]

EDIT: Hondo44 beat me to it! We'll all have a little fitting to do to get them "blended" to our cylinder frames, but that's just elbow grease and sandpaper.

All of the Bisley grip frames have had the same shape. They'll be pretty easily "blended" to mate up to your cylinder frame, then only a small modification (described below) will be necessary on your part to function with the New Vaq free spin pawl.

The old Vaquero grip frames had two "horns" sticking out of the front face of the upright portion of the frame interface locked into the rear of the cylinder frame. The New Vaqueros don't have these. You can see these sticking out in the pic below (stolen image, google image search). To fit your New Vaq, I'll cut these off for you.

All of the Bisley grip frames are the same from the Old Vaq's to New Vaq's, except for the "horns" pictured above, and the little notch in the bottom flange of the grip frame for the free-spin pawl. I'm stealing a pic from Hondo44 below:

To place this notch, you mark that area with a magic marker, assemble the gun, then cock the hammer a few times. This will leave a witness mark in the marker ink, so you simply make the "divot" there.

Even if you wind up slightly short or odd angled like this picture below (stolen from DougGuy), all is not lost:

Even with a RARE misalignment like this pic, you simply need to reprofile the angle on the cylinder frame, then drop the top of the grip to meet the new angle (basically, hone down the shape near the recoil shield to flatten out that top red line. Hondo44 describes it a lot better than I do.

Since yours isn't a locking model, you'll be set for a drop in with your strut, spring, and spring seat for this Bisley frame. Those Oxblood wood grips are a GREAT upgrade to the black rubber grips, I can't believe it took them this long to give up on those ugly rubber things!!! Again, I don't need the grip panels, so I'd venture you could sell them.

If you're in for $45 + the grip frame to swap for the grip frame, grips, hex screws (bisley's have 2 hex screws at the rear of the grip frame instead of countersunk screws through the "ears"), hammer, and trigger, then shoot me a PM and we can get the ball rolling. Serendipitous that it all came together so nicely!

 

[Hondo44]

Good pic of the projecting 'horns', on the Bisley frame.

You might scare off ledzep with that last photo showing a very early NM SBH. His NEW Vaq is made to fit the Bisley grip like all Ruger SAs produced since 1997. Any matching needed at all to his gun will be slight.

That's a good swap!

 

[Varminterror]

No worries Jim, Ledzep and I burned the midnight oil last night and worked out the deal, our two grip frames will both be in the mail by this evening, passing like ships in the night!

Thanks Ledzep, glad we could make a deal on these frames so all of us in this little Ruger love triangle can get the grip frames we want!

 

[Hondo44]

Cool, I like to see a deal come together.

 

[ledzep816]

Got the frame but have run into a snag. I relieved the frame as described and reassembled with the bisley hammer and trigger. The rest of the internals are original. The gun will cock, hammer will drop, etc, but open the loading gate but the cylinder will not rotate more than 10 degrees or so. Close the gate and all is normal again.

Any tips?