I have taught many ppl to shoot over the last 50 years without flinching with my powder puff loads, and many have gone on to shoot big revolvers in the big magnum calibers so Gas guzzler if you think there is something wrong with learning shoot without having to correct a flinch, who is to say what is the correct way. I just keep ppl comfy while on the learning curve.
Looking for a recipe for 38 special light weights
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AGE Ranger
Single-Sixer
I agree with Chief. It's easier to teach the basics and correct techniques without them flinching.
WESHOOT2
Hunter
And I prefer not to shoot loose the wife's S&W M38.......
I don't use WC's for informal shooting/plinking because I've had them"bounce back" at me.
My bullet of choice for any task that I'd put a .38 Spl to is a 150-ish LSWC.
If ya launch a bullet like that with 3.0 grains of Bulls Eye powder, it won't seem like much more than shooting a .22.
If you can stand a bit more shove while plinking, 4.5 of Unique will provide more power for "knocking stuff over", and will shoot a little closer to the POA in most fixed sight revolvers....leastways, it does in my wife's Model-36 Smith and my Daughter's Charter Arms Undercover.
Hope this helps.
DGW
My bullet of choice for any task that I'd put a .38 Spl to is a 150-ish LSWC.
If ya launch a bullet like that with 3.0 grains of Bulls Eye powder, it won't seem like much more than shooting a .22.
If you can stand a bit more shove while plinking, 4.5 of Unique will provide more power for "knocking stuff over", and will shoot a little closer to the POA in most fixed sight revolvers....leastways, it does in my wife's Model-36 Smith and my Daughter's Charter Arms Undercover.
Hope this helps.
DGW
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
When my favorite indoor range banned magnum calibers because of the noise and blast I started shooting them at an outdoor range. ...and yes when I get done I feel like more of a man. btw I don't always load them to their full potential. There is just something about ripping off a couple of 44 magnums in a row that gets your blood flowing.hangnoose said:
:mrgreen:
Biggfoot44
Blackhawk
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There seem to be two different catagories of loads being discussed interchangably , and it's not well defined which the OP is looking for.
Are we looking for a "moderate" load , somewhat lighter than industry *Standard Velocity* ? Or absolute minimum ?
A generic commercial machine cast 158gr , loaded with 3.2gr of WW231 will give aprox 50fps less than a *standard velocity* factory load. In the 4in revolver I did testing with , the factory load was aprox 750fps , and just a hair under 700fps. Gave 1in @ 25yd groups with revolver that was generally accurate. From a 4in steel frame revolver these were pleasant. From a 13oz Airweight snub , they were non-painful.
As far as absolute minimum loads there was an article in American Rifleman circa the 1970's , that has been reprinted in various NRA Handloading books. The gist was use flush seated WC , and Bullseye. Start at 2.7gr. Work DOWNWARDS 0.1gr at a time until you either reach a pleasing level of blast and recoil , OR bullet sticks in the bore. Remove the stuck bullet, and increase charge.
The limiting factor is the friction of your bbl ( and bbl length) .IIRC from a 2in the vels were in the 400fps range. Results will vary from gun to gun as to how much is needed to not stick a bullet.
Are we looking for a "moderate" load , somewhat lighter than industry *Standard Velocity* ? Or absolute minimum ?
A generic commercial machine cast 158gr , loaded with 3.2gr of WW231 will give aprox 50fps less than a *standard velocity* factory load. In the 4in revolver I did testing with , the factory load was aprox 750fps , and just a hair under 700fps. Gave 1in @ 25yd groups with revolver that was generally accurate. From a 4in steel frame revolver these were pleasant. From a 13oz Airweight snub , they were non-painful.
As far as absolute minimum loads there was an article in American Rifleman circa the 1970's , that has been reprinted in various NRA Handloading books. The gist was use flush seated WC , and Bullseye. Start at 2.7gr. Work DOWNWARDS 0.1gr at a time until you either reach a pleasing level of blast and recoil , OR bullet sticks in the bore. Remove the stuck bullet, and increase charge.
The limiting factor is the friction of your bbl ( and bbl length) .IIRC from a 2in the vels were in the 400fps range. Results will vary from gun to gun as to how much is needed to not stick a bullet.
Also bear in mind that a WC sits much further down inside the case than does a SWC of similar weight. What that means is that it's likely that the WC load will generate more starting pressure than the SWC load when one is playing around with a "minimum load" of powder. In other words, me thinks that it would be just as prudent to "follow the manual" for developing lights loads as when developing heavy loads. After all, we don't want to be sticking a bullet inside our bore, eh?
DGW
DGW
WESHOOT2
Hunter
Used swaged bullets like those from Speer.
For short-barreled revolvers, and a load that shoots like a .22, I load 2.1 - 2.5 grains W231 with all lead bullets from 148 - 158 grains.
Not for long barreled pistols or rifles, and make sure targets and backstop are soft. These powder puff loads will ricochet back at you if you shoot something hard or elastic, like old rubber tires.
Not for long barreled pistols or rifles, and make sure targets and backstop are soft. These powder puff loads will ricochet back at you if you shoot something hard or elastic, like old rubber tires.
mr surveyor
Blackhawk
I can't imagine what 2.1-2.5 gr of W231 with a 158 gr swc would do .... do they actually clear the muzzle of a 2" snub?
In one of the several loads my son and I put through the chrony yesterday he had a batch of 158 gr swc's loaded over 3.2 gr of HP-38. Out of my S&W Model 36, the 10 shot average was 495 fps with an ES of 137. From his "6 inch" GP100, they did a bit more respectable with an ave of 620 fps.
Any idea what that 2.1-2.5 gr load would chrony? Just curious.
JD
In one of the several loads my son and I put through the chrony yesterday he had a batch of 158 gr swc's loaded over 3.2 gr of HP-38. Out of my S&W Model 36, the 10 shot average was 495 fps with an ES of 137. From his "6 inch" GP100, they did a bit more respectable with an ave of 620 fps.
Any idea what that 2.1-2.5 gr load would chrony? Just curious.
JD
Cleared every time in revolvers tested up to 4". I imagine they're running just a bit faster than I can throw a rock... and I have bursitis. 8)
I used to teach women and kids to shoot, and this is what I started them out on when I didn't have have a .22 around.
I used to teach women and kids to shoot, and this is what I started them out on when I didn't have have a .22 around.
mr surveyor
Blackhawk
dougader said:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Biggfoot44
Blackhawk
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As long as you realise you are conducting a test , and always confirm impact on target , and check the bore, there is no harm in sticking a lead bullet. Firing the next shot into an obstructed bore is a Bad Thing .once you find that point , increase at least .1 , preferably .2gr , or at least 25fps by the chrono.
And just to show how variable guns and ammunition are I used an identical charge as Mr Surveyer , and had markedly different result. ( Since the merger , it has been publicly stated that among other combos , that HP-38 is exactly the same powder as WW-231 , bottled from the same production ).
I got 690-ish fps , single digit velocity spreads , and tight groups. Vel from 4in Victory Model. I want to say that I was using BULL-X 158swc's (well regarded brand at the time , used standard Magma Engeneering mold designs ) , but might have been Speer 158 SWCHP's . The Speers , and swc and rn from BULL-X can vels so close to each other , I interchanged the data between them.[FWIW, in those days CCI std primers , and always a heavy crimp.]
MrS's guns may have had differences in chamber and throat dimentions , or his bullets could have had marked difference in bearing surface and sizing. Just goes again to point out the importance of chronographs. They are inexpensive enough that all handloaders should have one , and any one venturing beyond the most common flavors of loads Really Needs one.
As much as I like WW231 , for loads of the rodent fart variety , I would use powders even better suited. Bullseye is justly legandary for reliable and consistant ignition , even with very small charges. Red Dot with its lighter density will take up more space , give a higher Load Density , which is theoretically a good thing.
IMR give a minimum recomendation of 50% Load Density with Trail Boss. Try. 50% load density (with your particular bullet) , and see what type of vels you get.
And depending on how much effort you care for shorten the cases , or use .38Long Colt (somewhat available due to CAS usage) , or .38 Short Colt (available periodically )
And see , I didn't even mention the words "case filler" , because that would open a 5gal bucket of worms , and is truely without a definative answer.
And just to show how variable guns and ammunition are I used an identical charge as Mr Surveyer , and had markedly different result. ( Since the merger , it has been publicly stated that among other combos , that HP-38 is exactly the same powder as WW-231 , bottled from the same production ).
I got 690-ish fps , single digit velocity spreads , and tight groups. Vel from 4in Victory Model. I want to say that I was using BULL-X 158swc's (well regarded brand at the time , used standard Magma Engeneering mold designs ) , but might have been Speer 158 SWCHP's . The Speers , and swc and rn from BULL-X can vels so close to each other , I interchanged the data between them.[FWIW, in those days CCI std primers , and always a heavy crimp.]
MrS's guns may have had differences in chamber and throat dimentions , or his bullets could have had marked difference in bearing surface and sizing. Just goes again to point out the importance of chronographs. They are inexpensive enough that all handloaders should have one , and any one venturing beyond the most common flavors of loads Really Needs one.
As much as I like WW231 , for loads of the rodent fart variety , I would use powders even better suited. Bullseye is justly legandary for reliable and consistant ignition , even with very small charges. Red Dot with its lighter density will take up more space , give a higher Load Density , which is theoretically a good thing.
IMR give a minimum recomendation of 50% Load Density with Trail Boss. Try. 50% load density (with your particular bullet) , and see what type of vels you get.
And depending on how much effort you care for shorten the cases , or use .38Long Colt (somewhat available due to CAS usage) , or .38 Short Colt (available periodically )
And see , I didn't even mention the words "case filler" , because that would open a 5gal bucket of worms , and is truely without a definative answer.
Galaxiedan
Blackhawk
Lee reloading manual lists 3.4grns of unique with 158grn lead. Definitely a lightweight load.
GasGuzzler
Hunter
Yeah, my point exactly.
