Horniest Lock-N-Load
- Thread starter grobin
- Start date
Depends on your volumes. Changeovers take time . . . running ammo doesn't take much time at all.
Die swap (3min), primer size change (3-5min), adjusting for flare if you don't use a flare die (3-5min), adjusting and setting powder charge weight (5-10min), assembling all those parts and putting the old ones away (5min). To that add filling primer tubes (2min/100), and if you put finished cartridges in (eg) 100 round ammo boxes that's now an extra (3min).
While that adds up to ~30 min, you'll more likely spend a couple of hours doing your first few changeovers and working your times down while you develop the needed experience and "systems".
Running 100 cartridges . . . 8 min. Then cleanup begins :)
So regardless of how many you shoot per (eg) month, it's better if your batch sizes are (eg) 300 or higher. It's just a matter of having enough brass.
At some point you can choose to buy some redundant parts to eliminate some or most of the changeover/setup time . . . except for die swaps, primer size swap, tube filling, and boxing ammo,. But you can even speed up the tube filling with a Hornady 1911 Primer Tube Filler and extra primer tubes.
I shoot on average 100 9mm and 75 45ACP each week, and use batch sizes of 1500 or so. I'll often take two sessions to complete a batch so it works out to 4 reloading sessions every 3 months or so.
Bottom line . . . it's a good idea if your batch sizes can be large enough.
Die swap (3min), primer size change (3-5min), adjusting for flare if you don't use a flare die (3-5min), adjusting and setting powder charge weight (5-10min), assembling all those parts and putting the old ones away (5min). To that add filling primer tubes (2min/100), and if you put finished cartridges in (eg) 100 round ammo boxes that's now an extra (3min).
While that adds up to ~30 min, you'll more likely spend a couple of hours doing your first few changeovers and working your times down while you develop the needed experience and "systems".
Running 100 cartridges . . . 8 min. Then cleanup begins :)
So regardless of how many you shoot per (eg) month, it's better if your batch sizes are (eg) 300 or higher. It's just a matter of having enough brass.
At some point you can choose to buy some redundant parts to eliminate some or most of the changeover/setup time . . . except for die swaps, primer size swap, tube filling, and boxing ammo,. But you can even speed up the tube filling with a Hornady 1911 Primer Tube Filler and extra primer tubes.
I shoot on average 100 9mm and 75 45ACP each week, and use batch sizes of 1500 or so. I'll often take two sessions to complete a batch so it works out to 4 reloading sessions every 3 months or so.
Bottom line . . . it's a good idea if your batch sizes can be large enough.
I have a Dillon SDB for handgun ammo. It takes a while to swap between calibers so I don't mess with it for small batches. I also have numerous single stage and a couple of LEE turret presses. My bench often has 3 presses bolted down and I even change presses rather than mess up a die setting. Looking at my bench, I see I have one press with a 300BO seater, one with a 6x45MM sizer sans the deprimer stem(you don't even want to know the circumstances of that scenario), one with no die, and a powder measure.
I wouldn't recommend a high tech multi-stage set-up for loading a handful of cases per run.
I wouldn't recommend a high tech multi-stage set-up for loading a handful of cases per run.
Big Old Boy
Hunter
I am not a high volume shooter and have used the same single stage press for over 40 years and have never felt a need for a progressive press the cost alone would hold me back.
contender
Ruger Guru
For small amounts,, a single stage works just fine,, and will cost you less to buy. If you shoot a lot more often, and burn up ammo quicker,,, then a progressive is the way to go. I own 4 Dillons,,,,!
DGW1949
Hawkeye
grobin said:
I'm a firm believer that a guy whom is new to reloading needs to start off with a good single stage press and a couple of reputable manuals...dot, period.
Speed and gadgets can come later. "Later" meaning after he knows exactly what he's doing and why he's doing it. Otherwise, he's not only just speculating, he's apt to find himself in over his head.
No offense meant to anyone.
DGW
A Hornady single stage press will make good ammo for you for many years, as long as you do your part. Learning on a single stage press is easier, less complicated and the most important step, die adjustments, is done often. Each time a step is completed and the reloader moves on the the next step, he must install and adjust the dies. Proper die adjustment is important for making good safe ammo and essential when troubleshooting ammo problems.
Is it worth it? Only you can answer that. I haven't counted costs since 1969 and today I have no idea what my handloads cost vs. factor ammo (I have purchased 3 boxes of factory ammo in the last 15 years, mainly because I had no brass for a new gun). I reload because I like to. Reloading is enjoyable, relaxing and a good way to stay familiar with my guns (I've been doing waaaaaay more reloading than shooting due to fires, weather and a stubborn ladder that put me on crutches). For me, reloading is worth it...
Is it worth it? Only you can answer that. I haven't counted costs since 1969 and today I have no idea what my handloads cost vs. factor ammo (I have purchased 3 boxes of factory ammo in the last 15 years, mainly because I had no brass for a new gun). I reload because I like to. Reloading is enjoyable, relaxing and a good way to stay familiar with my guns (I've been doing waaaaaay more reloading than shooting due to fires, weather and a stubborn ladder that put me on crutches). For me, reloading is worth it...
woodperson
Blackhawk
Are you talking about a single stage press with the Lock and Load system for changing the dies? I am cheap. I screw my dies in and out each time and would not want to buy the bushings for all the dies. I do have to make minor changes to the adjustment each time. But for me I decided the lock and load bushing system was not needed. I does look like a fine system if you do not mind the slight cost and would benefit from the couple of minutes it takes to screw the dies in and adjust. I would look a a turret press instead of the lock and load now but when I started I bought a single stage and am living with it just fine. I only load for 8 or so calibers and only 4 regularly and maybe 200 rounds per month or less.
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Yes, which Hornady Lock-N-Load press are you looking at? I can't imagine you would need more than a single-stage press for the reloading you describe.woodperson said:
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=hornady++lock-n-load+press&userItemsPerPage=48
historicfirearms
Bearcat
I can't say if it's worth it or not, but your title of the post has to be one of the funniest autocorrect blunders. Sorry. LOL
FWIW; accuracy comes from consistency. Consistent methods and components. There's a lot of "discussion" about which press type will produce the best accuracy, single stage vs. turret vs. progressive, but I believe that subject is "unresolved". I made safe, accurate ammo with my Lee Loader, with my C-H single stage, my Lee turret and now my Co-ax. If I'm sloppy my reloads won't be consistent either with my Lee Loader or my Co-Ax... 8)
daveg.inkc
Hunter
I load average 500 rounds a session. 4 sizes, .41 .44 , .45 C & Auto. My press is a Lyman T Mag. Once your dies are set. You dont change, unless Seating die. Only takes a min or 2 , turning dies in. A turret press is your biggest time saver. I de cap and flair case in 2 strokes of ram. Lock n Load may quicken set up , But not much
DGW1949
Hawkeye
Call me anal, old school, dumb, or whatever...but in terms of totaling-up all of the stuff which I do each time I reload a cartridge, it takes me over 40 hours to clean/reload 1000 rds of revolver/pistol brass. The point there being that I don't consider the few seconds it takes to swap one preset (threaded) die with another to amount to doodly-squat. I mean really, there's only three of 'em and they've only got to be installed/replaced one time each...so how much difference could using some sort of quick release die gizmo in conjunction with my single stage press possibly make?...
No, I'm purty-sure of it...I don't have a die-switching problem, so it follows that since there's nothing there that needs solved, I certainly don't need to spend money for a solution.
But that's just me and how I look at it. The next guy is free to buy all the gizmo's he wants and can afford...Is this a great Country or what? :wink: .
DGW
No, I'm purty-sure of it...I don't have a die-switching problem, so it follows that since there's nothing there that needs solved, I certainly don't need to spend money for a solution.
But that's just me and how I look at it. The next guy is free to buy all the gizmo's he wants and can afford...Is this a great Country or what? :wink: .
DGW
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
If you are planning to buy a loading press I don't think it matters if it has the L-N-L feature or not. ...as long as you don't mind the extra cost for the bushings. Seems after looking at Hornady.com the Lock-N-load feature is on all their new presses.
https://www.hornady.com/reloading/presses/
I recently bought a Lee Classic press that did not have the 'Breech Lock' feature which is similar to the L-N-L of Hornady.
https://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/single-stage/
https://www.hornady.com/reloading/presses/
I recently bought a Lee Classic press that did not have the 'Breech Lock' feature which is similar to the L-N-L of Hornady.
https://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/single-stage/
You don't have to grab the die or the die ring in order to remove a die/LNLbushing from a press.
This helps ensure you do not inadvertently loosen the die from the die ring when removing a die from a press. Since you don't have to tighten the die/die-ring to the press, it also ensures the die is tightened exactly as it was the last time.
Small differences, nice convenience.
This helps ensure you do not inadvertently loosen the die from the die ring when removing a die from a press. Since you don't have to tighten the die/die-ring to the press, it also ensures the die is tightened exactly as it was the last time.
Small differences, nice convenience.
DGW1949
Hawkeye
Twoboxer said:
I get your point, but I don't have a problem in that area of operation.
On the other hand, if the die manufacturers wanted to do something meaningful for me, I'd sure like to see 'em go back to the old style of split lock ring instead of continuing to use the present solid ring and set-screw system...which, when ya get down to it, is actually the source of the "problem" they are now trying to tell me needs solved. :lol: :lol: :lol: .
But like I said, that's just me.
DGW
daveg.inkc
Hunter
Lee has the best locking ring. Uses a rubber o-ring. I have them on all of my dies. Set them once and dont have to worry.
DGW1949
Hawkeye
Twoboxer said:
Well, maybe I'm missing something here, or perhaps I've been doing it wrong all these years...but...once adjusted, I "tighten" the adjustment lock(s) to the die. I do not however, "tighten" the adjusted die assembly itself to the press because "hand snugged" works fine for that...which in turn, allows the die assemblies to be removed/reinstalled as many times as I wish without disturbing the adjustments.
In other words, adjustment locks do need a tool to ensure that the adjustments stay put during handling, but installing/removing a pre-set die don't require a tool at all.
I mean after all, we're only snugging a die into position eh?...not torqueing down a cylinder head. Or leastways, that's how I've always looked at it. :lol:.
DGW
Ron IL
Bearcat
I got started when I was a working man. Not a lot of spare time. A Lee anniversary kit with one press. Deprime brass, hand clean and prime, then weigh powder insert bullet, then crimp. Pretty slow going. Not bad for rifle shooting. But went to 45 acp. I picked up two more cheap Lee presses so I could just move case through three dies. A lot faster. Then got a tumbler. Then tried a Lee progressive press. I had it three days and never could get it adjusted right. Sent it back and got a Lee Classic 4 hole turret. I now load 45 acp, 45 Colt, and 38 spl. Now I am up to three of the die holders with powder measures mounted on each. So swapping calibers is just a matter of changing the shell holder and the die holder. It takes 30 seconds to switch calibers. It is not as fast as a progressive but good for me. I can put out around 200 per hour. It makes good quality ammo and I can inspect each completed round. All of this took about 2 years to complete. Been using this setup for the last 3 years.
The Blackhawk Kid
Blackhawk
I have four Dillons and NO ISSUES! fwiw
Big Old Boy
Hunter
I enjoy reloading as much as shooting being retired I have all the time in the world.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Hi,
Years ago I worked in the insurance industry for a short while, and at least once a week we'd have a training session on "time management."
I can't say those sessions changed how I manage my time, but they did cause me to look at it thru different eyes. Those eyes bring out two particular issues with reloading. The one involved here is the time involved with swapping dies. We'll spend hours at the range, sometimes shooting only 20-50 rounds, and examining the results of each shot. No problem. We'll drive hours to go find a place to shoot, either out of necessity or curiosity. No problem. When we're done shooting, we'll go have lunch or breakfast with our shooting buddies and spend quite a bit of time talking about our newest gun, scope, load, or trinket. Then we'll go home and spend untold time cleaning the guns we shot that day. Again, no problem. It's been a good day!
Hours and hours and hours have been involved here. Yet we fuss about a few seconds, a minute or two maybe, swapping dies as if that short time is critical in the grand scheme of things?
Methinks anyone with a sense of humor who looks in the mirror every morning must just bust out laughing now and then, as I often find myself doing! :lol:
Rick C
Years ago I worked in the insurance industry for a short while, and at least once a week we'd have a training session on "time management."
I can't say those sessions changed how I manage my time, but they did cause me to look at it thru different eyes. Those eyes bring out two particular issues with reloading. The one involved here is the time involved with swapping dies. We'll spend hours at the range, sometimes shooting only 20-50 rounds, and examining the results of each shot. No problem. We'll drive hours to go find a place to shoot, either out of necessity or curiosity. No problem. When we're done shooting, we'll go have lunch or breakfast with our shooting buddies and spend quite a bit of time talking about our newest gun, scope, load, or trinket. Then we'll go home and spend untold time cleaning the guns we shot that day. Again, no problem. It's been a good day!
Hours and hours and hours have been involved here. Yet we fuss about a few seconds, a minute or two maybe, swapping dies as if that short time is critical in the grand scheme of things?
Methinks anyone with a sense of humor who looks in the mirror every morning must just bust out laughing now and then, as I often find myself doing! :lol:
Rick C
DGW1949
Hawkeye
Rick Courtright said:
I hear ya Rick...Or to put all of that into my own red neck vernacular, it's more a case of "a lot to do about nothing" than anything else. I mean really, I could have changed a whole set of threaded dies in less time it's taken me to write this one short response...so what the heck a "quick change die"? :lol: :lol: :lol: .
DGW
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
I too found Rick's explanation to be interesting... But, what if you look at the situation in a different way. Let's say reloading is a task that you allow approximately 2 or 3 hours a week for. It doesn't interfere with your other activities. So why not use your reloading time wisely, that is finding efficient ways to use that 2 to 3 hours. You wouldn't want to do everything the 'old fashion' way would you? Hence we have new equipment, progressive reloaders, tumblers and all the modern stuff we use. Quick change dies just make sense.DGW1949 said:
...and I don't use them but I see why they are available.
woodperson
Blackhawk
Pulling this old thread up. I read it all at the time. Thought I would screw dies in and out forever.
Then I found a little kit on Amazon that screws into my Lee Classic press and converts it to Lock n Load. Best $20 I have spent for a while. The bushings are $4 if you buy them in packs of 10. I did not like the rubber lock rings on the Lee. But when they are locked into the Lock n Load bushing they work fine. I am now really enjoying the fact that I know that when I put a die in the press the body of the die is positioned correctly with no adjustments needed. Silly as it may seem, I found I just hated the process of spinning the die in and out. Not so much the time. Just the feeling that it is somehow wrong to have to keep moving that many threads and to have to worry about whether the "locking ring" moved when I took the die loose or when I tightened it in. And of course I can put a empty Lock n Load bushing in and screw dies in and out if I still need to for some reason There is a lot to like about this system. I did have to make a storage system since the dies will not fit in the original boxes with the bushings attached.
Then I found a little kit on Amazon that screws into my Lee Classic press and converts it to Lock n Load. Best $20 I have spent for a while. The bushings are $4 if you buy them in packs of 10. I did not like the rubber lock rings on the Lee. But when they are locked into the Lock n Load bushing they work fine. I am now really enjoying the fact that I know that when I put a die in the press the body of the die is positioned correctly with no adjustments needed. Silly as it may seem, I found I just hated the process of spinning the die in and out. Not so much the time. Just the feeling that it is somehow wrong to have to keep moving that many threads and to have to worry about whether the "locking ring" moved when I took the die loose or when I tightened it in. And of course I can put a empty Lock n Load bushing in and screw dies in and out if I still need to for some reason There is a lot to like about this system. I did have to make a storage system since the dies will not fit in the original boxes with the bushings attached.
