Home Defense

[Specs]

Discussing home defense with my son and he thinks my Remington Express 12 ga HD model would be the perfect defense weapon for in his home as I once did. Thinking it over I have concluded that the report, muzzle flash and destructive effect of 00 pellets slamming God knows what in the house would be devastating. I myself prefer a semiauto handgun or carbine even though I have the shotty . In reality I can't imagine what firing the shotgun in the middle of the night in my house would be like.
As the old Fox News says " what say you?" I should add that my son is 57 years old and not a gun guy.

 

[Mobuck]

He's probably more likely to control the shotgun better than a handgun. Shotgun not so good for tight corners and such. With a novice, it's important that they learn AND REMEMBER to pump the action between shots. I've seen beginner hunters fire a shot and keep pulling the trigger instead of pumping another shell into the chamber.

 

[s4s4u]

I am down with a shotgun, but I wouldn't use my 870. I want something that loads itself. There was a story not long ago about a guy who challenged intruders in his home with a pump shotgun. He killed one but before he could launch another round he was shot dead by the other perps.

In such a scenario, I'd prefer something that I can get back on target with quickly. Also prefer suppressed if possible. My AR in 300 BLK is my main house gun.

 

[3manfan]

Shotgun and rifle rounds are devastating fight stoppers, but they make a horrible mess indoors. If one is ever unfortunate enough to have to shoot an offender inside the home, keep in mind that if they expire, they're going to lay where they fall for hours & hours while the scene is processed which typically results in the leakage of blood & possibly other bodily fluids into the rug, hardwood floors, etc. The larger the wound(s), the more pronounced that will be especially if there are exit wounds, which shotguns & rifles are more likely to produce than a handgun round.

Rifle fire indoors is horrific on the eardrums & it's the main reason why SWAT teams went to earmuffs as soon as the tech presented itself.
Not that I recommend it unless a child or other family member in another room must be secured, but if one decides to 'clear' a structure, long guns can present themselves as a risk for a barrel grab by an intruder. Long guns also hamper one's ability to open a door(s) or perform other tasks that are more easily accomplished with a free hand if the strong hand holds a handgun.

At the short distances typically found within the average home, shotgun & rifle rounds are more powerful than necessary. In my 25 years on the street, I've seen a ton of people who'd been shot. I found that of those who were shot indoors & after learning of the details of the incident from the homeowner or resident, the subjects either turned & fled (or attempted to) or succumbed to being shot with a handgun just as quickly as those who were shot by a shotgun or rifle. I personally would not shoot anyone indoors with a rifle or shotgun for the above reasons. My home defensive plans are relegated to handguns of sufficient power, all with mounted high-lumen lights & a set of electronic earmuffs in each room.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

My home defensive plans are relegated to handguns of sufficient power, all with mounted high-lumen lights

I totally agree with a WML. Stand by for the "I will just shoot at the light" comments.

 

[Johnnu2]

Shotgun... almost any gauge ... 100%.
p.s. I won't 'clear' or check anything.... I'd just shoot in the dark and stop when there's no more ammo... the Po-Po will be there by the time I finish. Also, keep my eyes closed and prepare to be deaf. If there is anyone left, I'm toast.
IMHO of course,
J.

 

[3manfan]

I totally agree with a WML. Stand by for the "I will just shoot at the light" comments.

Yup. But never in my ever....have I ever encountered that actually happening to any officer or civilian. Never heard of a reliable source that knows of it ever happening either.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Yup. But never in my ever....have I ever encountered that actually happening to any officer or civilian. Never heard of a reliable source that knows of it ever happening either.

It basically stems from the minds of the untrained and inexperienced types who believe what they see in movies/television.

Now standby for the ones who will google it and post contradictory responses......

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

He's probably more likely to control the shotgun better than a handgun. Shotgun not so good for tight corners and such. With a novice, it's important that they learn AND REMEMBER to pump the action between shots. I've seen beginner hunters fire a shot and keep pulling the trigger instead of pumping another shell into the chamber.

Would normally agree that a shotgun is not good for going around corners, but shorties like Bullpups and Shockwaves can help minimize that problem. Not saying a pistol wouldn't be better, but if one is going to use a scattergun... Also, at that close of a range it doesn't need to be 00.

 

[375hh1973]

Gimme a shotgun.

Semi auto, like my Benelli M4, chamber loaded, safety on.

#1 buck

Deal with the ringing ears and the mess to clean up later.

 

[GunnyGene]

First, show them where that half gallon of fine Kentucky Single Barrel is and tell them to drink as much as they want. When they're passed out, put a .22mag in their head.

 

[contender]

Lots of good comments above.

Long guns,, no matter what type,, can be cumbersome indoors & especially trying to prevent a hidden thug from grabbing it. And if you do get into any kind of wrestling or physical altercation trying to get the gun into use can be harder with a long gun.
If a shotgun is chosen,, then step down to #1 buckshot over 00 buck. A better choice.

Most rifle caliber will offer the chance of over penetration and if there are other people in the house,, or heck if a neighbor's house is close by,, potential problems there.

Noise. Any firearm discharged indoors will be very loud. Period.

A question to ask yourself. In a direct physical attack, even indoors in your own home,, can you get the firearm into use easily, and with only one hand? How about if the one hand is your non-dominant hand?

A good quality DA revolver,, equipped with a laser,, can be the simplest to operate one handed, and has the fewest functions to get it into battery. A good choice would be a .357 Mag,, with self defense rounds. You can keep the gun close to the body,, (helps prevent a thug from grabbing it,) and you can activate the laser as needed. You can buy .38 Spl ammo for practice,, and keep the good SD ammo in it "just in case!"

JMO.

 

[peachhead]

Out of curiosity, where do you keep this shotgun? Is it leaned up in the corner, do you have somewhere specific to put it under the bed, or what? I've always leaned towards handgun simply because I can conceal them better. Now I have a 2-year-old living with me so I have to be careful where I put stuff.

 

[Dave Schwaab]

If you're defending your property, a shotgun or a pistol caliber carbine might be a good choice, but if you're defending your HOME, you are indoors, and those larger guns can be unwieldy. Inside the house, I want a handgun, preferably semi-auto, with hi-vis open sights. Lights, and even lasers, can give advance warning of your position and approach. Unless you have trained for clearing a house, you are probably better to call the cops and seek a good vantage point to hide, with the gun ready in case they come looking for you. If you do go looking for them, use your superior knowledge of the surroundings and not a flashlight to get around. And move slow and deliberately. Don't rush right into them.

Most of us are not highly trained tactical operators, and the stress of someone coming into your home is going to unsettle you more than you think. Rely on the basics, a phone and a good semi-auto handgun with hi-vis open sights.

 

[kmoore]

Start with the fact any firearm fired in your house can be destructive. A center fire handgun would be best but is the hardest to master. So, for this let's say the 870 in 12ga is the only choice for this discussion. I believe 00 buck is the best man stopper at up to about 15 yds. that's what I will use.
Remember there are 100s of different 12ga ammo available to you/him. Starting at non-lethal ammo like bean bags, many different types of bird shot, several different types of buck shot and then slugs. The shooter can choose to load a bean bag as the 1st shot or bird shot, backed up by buck shot. Leave the slugs for outdoor use. That's just 1 way different ammo can be used.
None of this talk will be any good unless he trains and practices firing and reloading the shotgun. I hope the barrel is 18 or 20 inch long and he has a side saddle to load more ammo into the gun. A full-size hunting shotgun will not be useful walking around inside a house ready to fire. If that's what he thinks he might do. It MIGHT be fine if standing your ground and letting the thugs come to you, while awaiting behind cover.
The last thing I would ever consider is destructive affects in my house while I am saving my life. I do consider over penetration of any ammo fired. Our homes, family members and neighborhood all play into those choices. Myself, I now live alone, in a large 2 story home. I am highly trained and skilled. I have a choice of different handguns for inside home defense. The 12ga is for outside defense as is several carbines or full-size rifles.

 

[KIR]

Benelli M2 for me 39.75" because of the narrow hallways in my home. It is semi-auto, so I don't have to remember to pump the action.
However, I have lights on around the house, good sturdy locks and thorny rose bushes under the windows. While I no longer have a dog, I still have the signs up that say "Dog on Premises". So while it is great to have my M2 as a last line of defense, one should think about the first line, to avoid having to fall back on something more lethal.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Everyone acts like there is going to be a hit put out on them......average home invasions are mostly get in and get what they want or think is there and get out undetected. The average intruder doesn't carry a gun. So unless someone is after you for whatever reason why are people going after the intruder anyway? A good prosecutor (I've seen it) will turn the homeowner into the hunter and the intruder into the hunted if shot. So unless you are worried about a hit put out on you or your loved ones, IF and when you hear that bump or breaking glass grab your weapon, call 911, and protect yourself/family. If you have kids some navigation of the home may be required to protect them. MOST home invaders will flee if they think they have been detected. So unless you have the profile of being a possible victim of a contracted hit, or kidnapped, the intruder is normally looking for a items with street market value.

Bottom line in my experience/opinion is have a plan before worrying about deploying home defense "tactics/guns" that may end up back firing on you. If it's you they want then make them come to you....a well prepared you.

 

[ole442]

This is very interesting in reference to home defense:

 

[Watertender]

10 years ago I had a boss who was vehemently antigun to the point of hysteria. This changed when his home was broken into by a crackhead. He proceeded to use a wine bottle to beat the crackhead while cussing his head off.

He asked me what he should get for home defense and I told him that he might be best served with a 20-gauge pump with an 18.5 inch barrel. I also told him to take some lessons in the safe handling of it if he bought one. I'm not sure what he bought if he did get one because I retired not long after the incident.

The definition of a new conservative is a liberal that just got robbed....

 

[wheelgun1958]

#4 buck

 

[Watertender]

#4 buck

The standard 2.75" #4 Buckshot load is 27 pellets. 3 inch is 41 pellets. 3.5 inch is 54 pellets.
That will definitely ruin someone's day if they break into your house

 

[Jeepnik]

Same as it's been since the 70's. 20 ga Franchise model 48. 19" barrel. My wife likes the 20 12's not so much. It's a semiautomatic.

As to corners, I was taught not to hold tight on corners. But instead move back and slowly check around the corner in pie shaped sections. Minimizes your exposure. So barrel length isn't and issue.

And if my family is in danger collateral damage to my house and contents is my last consideration.

I'm not going to be one bit concerned about any legal issues arising from the incident. Plenty of time and lawyers for that "after" the shooting stops.

 

[pisgah]

If I am planning a break-in, I now know to choose your house and not your son's...

 

[Paul B]

Since my wife dies I live alone so I don't worry about possibly hitting a family member. Strategy while she was alive was go to the master bedroom and lie down in the space between the bed and the rear wall of the house. I close and lock the bedroom door and get into whatever space was left once the wife got settled. Have a house phone extension in the bed room and call 911 Should the phone be dead I have the cell phone for back up. While on the phone I yell out to the intruder that I am armed and that the police are on the way. You attempt to break into the bedroom you can expect to be shot. So far, I haven't had to find out how well that will all work out. With luck I won't ever have to.
Paul B.

 

[ArizonaTea123]

What about a flechette round? 28+ hardened steel darts.

 

[NikA]

Out of curiosity, where do you keep this shotgun? Is it leaned up in the corner, do you have somewhere specific to put it under the bed, or what? I've always leaned towards handgun simply because I can conceal them better. Now I have a 2-year-old living with me so I have to be careful where I put stuff.

Top of a high bookshelf or cabinet is sufficient for a shotgun with an 18" barrel. Up to you to determine whether that's accessible enough in an emergency. And to teach the kid safety around firearms.

 

[TheTexasRAT]

Noise. Any firearm discharged indoors will be very loud. Period.

A regular 14,000 psi 45 COLT round doesn't ring the ears. Don't bother asking me how I know. Let's just say I had a negligent discharge while dry firing a loaded gun.

Any way a revolver chambered in 45 COLT is adequate defense in the hands of one who trains with it.

On the other hand, as a viable non-lethal option, one could buy some flash--bangs to deploy around corners or down a stairway which would backdown most attackers and send them running home.

 

[ex13F]

I have a few options available in the bedroom but hadn't really given it much thought but they are 2 Ruger Vaqueros and a Puma M92 carbine. All in 45 Colt. Other parts of the house, different options. Oddly, my shotgun is unloaded and in the safe on the other side of the house.

 

[vito]

I bought a 12 gauge (Mossberg 500) not for home defense, but for the possibility of massive civil unrest where I would be trying to keep myself and my wife safe as we try to leave the area. I do keep this gun loaded and mounted on the wall behind my shirts on hangers in my walk in closet. The gun is safely protected in a ShotLock device which makes it unusable while the trigger housing is fully behind metal. This leaves the gun relatively easy for me to get to, while keeping it safe from possibly curious grandchildren who are frequent visitors to my home, and some of whom likely think that they could safely go look at and possibly hold grandpa's shotgun safely.

For home defense I keep a Glock 17 with a rail mounted flashlight and two full 17 round magazines, all in a small steel safe bolted into the drawer in my bedside table. I unlock that little safe every evening, and re-lock it when I get up in the morning so that I don't have to worry about unexpected visits by grandchildren, possibly when I am already out of the house. None of my guns are ever accessible to my young grandchildren.

 

[magpouch]

Lots of good choices here and a shotgun can be incredibly potent medicine. Problem with shotguns is that they have low capacity and require more training than most other long arms. You need to train with whatever you choose, but a shotgun is very specific in its operation.

For me, I would suggest a braced short barrel AR pistol makes a better choice ( but,any gun is better than no gun) because it requires less specific training and has a much better capacity. A child can operate an AR if needed, but even an adult woman can struggle with the shotgun, and that can make training less attractive. Training is KEY.

Any gun is better than becoming a statistic though, and MINDSET is most important. Train, train, train. That's how YOU survive. Remember, YOU are the weapon, the firearm is only the tool.

Make sure YOU are not the tool...