Grip screw location

[Heavy Barrel]

Just wondering why most aftermarket grip makers can't get the screw location in the right place.Everything seems to be located more to the back of the grip than centered like originals.I have passed on some nice grips for that reason,maybe I'm just to critical or is it just me ?

 

[street]

I agree. If the screw is not in the center then it doesn't look right.

 

[flatgate]

I believe the un-centered grip screw design began when making grips for those brands of Single Action revolvers that use a leaf type mainspring.

flatgate

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Also, if you look at an XR3 or XR3RED grip frame, there is a "cut-out" in the frame to clear the screw. However, this cutout is considerably further back than necessary to allow the screw to clear the mainspring & strut.

I have always thought that some grip makers locate the screw escutcheons based on the frame cutout, never having seen a gun complete with the mainspring & strut installed.

Just an observation.

:)

 

[J Miller]

You are not alone. I won't buy custom grips with the screw way back of center either. It does not look right at all.

If the factory can center the screws, then the custom makers can to ... if they want to.

Joe

 

[Olsherm]

Factory does not get them centered either.Look at your New blackhawks and single six's with the lock. Way back from center.

 

[caryc]

Just curious. Are you lumping me in with those grip makers that can't get it right?

Take a look at the pics below. The bottom pic shows the grips in the top pic. With a spacer on the grip screw it is right next to the main spring. Not a whole lot of room in there.

 

[Heavy Barrel]

Just curious. Are you lumping me in with those grip makers that can't get it right?

Take a look at the pics below. The bottom pic shows the grips in the top pic. With a spacer on the grip screw it is right next to the main spring. Not a whole lot of room in there.

I don't think anyone is lumping you into anything,just the general conscenses.

That being the case my question would be why the spacer ? If the grip screw was only threaded enough to tighten the grip a spacer wouldn't be needed.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Good point there.

I went to the Big Box Hardware Store and perused the "special fasteners" until I found the little cylindrical spacers. I bought a half-dozen of the ones that I thought would serve perfectly inside my Ruger grip frames. As it turns out, I bought the wrong size, as they were JUST BARELY too big to clear the mainspring when installed with standard factory Ruger grip panels. I'll be more picky on my next trip.

I note that Cary has shown us a New Model grip frame that leaves a little more room for the screw & spacer than the Old Model versions I was referring to. Until I saw that picture I hadn't realized there was a difference. Just shows how little attention I pay to the New Model stuff.

This is not as simple as it seems.
:)

 

[Hondo44]

That being the case my question would be why the spacer ? If the grip screw was only threaded enough to tighten the grip a spacer wouldn't be needed.

You're right, a grip screw only threaded enough to properly tighten should be enough. But a spacer to keep from overtightening and bowing the grips is needed for the buba type that would keep tightening until they strip or turn the escutchen! Even a spacer might not stop them. They are out there and walk among us. I've seen their guns or what's left of them. There's just no cure for stupid is there?

And I agree, if it's anymore off center than the factory screw, I pass them up, period.

 

[contender]

Caryc happens to be, in my humble opinion the maker of some of the finest custom stocks I've ever seen. And he uses spacers to prevent damage from the folks who overtighten their grip screws. I too have seen, bought, repaired and trashed so many abused stocks that I like to know I have enough space to allow the use of a spacer to prevent this. Even though I know to NOT overtighten a screw, I add a spacer to all my Rugers if I can. I use the nylon ones I buy at hardware stores and I'm able to shave them down by a few thousands to allow for the slightly different thicknesses of gripframes easily.
As a rank beginner when it comes to making stocks, (I've made 1/2 dozen pair,) I try to center the screws when I can, but as noted by Caryc, & Flatgate, you can not always do so when you deal with the internal mechanics of the firearm. A factory screw may not allow for a spacer, (Bearcats) so it may be hard to center a screw and allow for a spacer. A slightly off center srew will sometimes.
I will agree that a gross misplacement of a gripscrew can look bad. I've always felt that the ones posted here by our fine stockmakers have always been a pleasure to look at. (Even if they are not perfectly centered.) A great example shown above!

 

[Heavy Barrel]

That being the case my question would be why the spacer ? If the grip screw was only threaded enough to tighten the grip a spacer wouldn't be needed.

You're right, a grip screw only threaded enough to properly tighten should be enough. But a spacer to keep from overtightening and bowing the grips is needed for the buba type that would keep tightening until they strip or turn the escutchen! Even a spacer might not stop them. They are out there and walk among us. I've seen their guns or what's left of them. There's just no cure for stupid is there?

And I agree, if it's anymore off center than the factory screw, I pass them up, period.

I agree 100%,the thing that prompted my post was the set of stags in the classifieds,probably as nice or nicer than most factory stags I have ever seen.I would have paid twice the asking price with no second thoughts had the grip screw hole been in the right location.
Thanks to everyone both pro and con,glad to know I'm not alone.

 

[J Miller]

Cary's grips have the screw much closer to center than some I've seen.

As for the spacer, just grind a flat on one side to clear the spring.
No big deal.

Joe

 

[caryc]

I don't hear anyone here crying about the Bisley grips. What's up with that?

It's OK there?

 

[street]

I don't hear anyone here crying about the Bisley grips. What's up with that?

It's OK there?

I know that I'm going to catch a lot of crap here but a Bisley grip just doesn't look right to me anyhow. It doesn't matter where you put the screw a Bisley grip just looks wrong. Yes I know that a lot of people like the feel of that grip, but to me the old plow handle just looks better. One thing that I do want to add is there is no better way to improve the looks of a Bisley then to have you make a set of grips for them!!!

 

[caryc]

I don't hear anyone here crying about the Bisley grips. What's up with that?

It's OK there?

I know that I'm going to catch a lot of crap here but a Bisley grip just doesn't look right to me anyhow. It doesn't matter where you put the screw a Bisley grip just looks wrong. Yes I know that a lot of people like the feel of that grip, but to me the old plow handle just looks better. One thing that I do want to add is there is no better way to improve the looks of a Bisley then to have you make a set of grips for them!!!

I'm not that fond of the Bisley grip either. If I had to choose between the Ruger and Colt for looks alone, I would pick the Colt Bisley. It looks stylish whereas the Ruger Bisley looks kind of clunky.

I do like that Bisley hammer though.

 

[jimbo1096]

I guess I've been used to the slightly off centered screw, as It looks to be where it belongs when done as CaryC shows in his pictures. I haven't seen many that were way off center. I always place the right panel on the locator pin and press into the frame, then insert the screw through the panel, slide on spacer to make sure all clears the spring, and then the left anel with the threaded ferrule. That way I check that all is well inside the grips when I close them up. Anybody do it different?

 

[caryc]

I guess I've been used to the slightly off centered screw, as It looks to be where it belongs when done as CaryC shows in his pictures. I haven't seen many that were way off center. I always place the right panel on the locator pin and press into the frame, then insert the screw through the panel, slide on spacer to make sure all clears the spring, and then the left anel with the threaded ferrule. That way I check that all is well inside the grips when I close them up. Anybody do it different?

Actually, yes I do. I place the left panel on the gun, lay it down, then place the spacer over the screw hole. I put the screw through the left grip and place the panel on with the screw going through the spacer.

I don't see what difference it makes which way you do it as long as you get the spacer on the screw, but you did ask.

 

[tek4260]

Also, if you look at an XR3 or XR3RED grip frame, there is a "cut-out" in the frame to clear the screw. However, this cutout is considerably further back than necessary to allow the screw to clear the mainspring & strut.

I have always thought that some grip makers locate the screw escutcheons based on the frame cutout, never having seen a gun complete with the mainspring & strut installed.

Just an observation.

:)

Well I have no doubt my grip frame will come back with some great looking grips. But it was a BFR so I went ahead and took a sharpie and made a mark on the top and bottom of the frame that formed the line of the rear of the spring/strut at rest.

 

[caryc]

I don't think anyone is lumping you into anything,just the general conscenses.

That being the case my question would be why the spacer ? If the grip screw was only threaded enough to tighten the grip a spacer wouldn't be needed.

Lumping or not, I was asking you if you thought my grip screw holes were not centered enough.

Well, let's see. People may tighten the screw up real snug to make sure the grips don't move. The wood fibers start to compress as time goes on. Maybe they take the grips off again for cleaning. This time without knowing it they tighten it a little more since the fibers were compressed.

Keep this going over the years and the wood can slowly start to give way in the back and before you know it the wood gives way and starts to break out.

About the grip screw being threaded only enough to tighten the grip; that would require the ferrule holes to be exactly the right depth according to how much of the screw was threaded. So, over the years as the wood compresses and maybe starts to give way a little, you can't tighten the screw anymore anyway since the threads are bottomed out. So, what do you do then?

Isn't it a better idea to just use a spacer to avoid ripping out the back of the grips? Seems a whole lot simpler to me.

 

[Heavy Barrel]

I don't think anyone is lumping you into anything,just the general conscenses.

That being the case my question would be why the spacer ? If the grip screw was only threaded enough to tighten the grip a spacer wouldn't be needed.

Lumping or not, I was asking you if you thought my grip screw holes were not centered enough.

Well, let's see. People may tighten the screw up real snug to make sure the grips don't move. The wood fibers start to compress as time goes on. Maybe they take the grips off again for cleaning. This time without knowing it they tighten it a little more since the fibers were compressed.

Keep this going over the years and the wood can slowly start to give way in the back and before you know it the wood gives way and starts to break out.

About the grip screw being threaded only enough to tighten the grip; that would require the ferrule holes to be exactly the right depth according to how much of the screw was threaded. So, over the years as the wood compresses and maybe starts to give way a little, you can't tighten the screw anymore anyway since the threads are bottomed out. So, what do you do then?

Isn't it a better idea to just use a spacer to avoid ripping out the back of the grips? Seems a whole lot simpler to me.

I have no problem with your grip screw holes nor did I say I did.What I initially ask was what I thought was a legitimate question.Also,I have nine Rugers with wood grips,all over 40yrs old and most removed many times.Every set is as good as the day they were made,no wood damage ever.Maybe I'm a little more careful than most.

 

[caryc]

I don't think anyone is lumping you into anything,just the general conscenses.

That being the case my question would be why the spacer ? If the grip screw was only threaded enough to tighten the grip a spacer wouldn't be needed.

Lumping or not, I was asking you if you thought my grip screw holes were not centered enough.

Well, let's see. People may tighten the screw up real snug to make sure the grips don't move. The wood fibers start to compress as time goes on. Maybe they take the grips off again for cleaning. This time without knowing it they tighten it a little more since the fibers were compressed.

Keep this going over the years and the wood can slowly start to give way in the back and before you know it the wood gives way and starts to break out.

About the grip screw being threaded only enough to tighten the grip; that would require the ferrule holes to be exactly the right depth according to how much of the screw was threaded. So, over the years as the wood compresses and maybe starts to give way a little, you can't tighten the screw anymore anyway since the threads are bottomed out. So, what do you do then?

Isn't it a better idea to just use a spacer to avoid ripping out the back of the grips? Seems a whole lot simpler to me.

I have no problem with your grip screw holes nor did I say I did.What I initially ask was what I thought was a legitimate question.Also,I have nine Rugers with wood grips,all over 40yrs old and most removed many times.Every set is as good as the day they were made,no wood damage ever.Maybe I'm a little more careful than most.

My spacers are included with every set of grips to keep the backs from pulling out from over tightening the grip screw.

I don't care if you have your pet gorilla tighten your screws or use a torque wrench on them. I did not say every set of grips will be ruined without using a spacer. I put them in with my grips as insurance.

Evidently you don't think they are a good idea, so don't use them, it's as simple as that.

Grips have been ruined from over tightening, it's a fact. I try to avoid that. I will not replace a pair of my grips that have had the back pulled out of one.

I provide spacers, if people don't want to use them, I have no control over that.

 

[Heavy Barrel]

As easily as it is to offend you,I will reply no more.lighten up and enjoy life. :)

 

[caryc]

As easily as it is to offend you,I will reply no more.lighten up and enjoy life. :)

I was not offended. This statement I don't care if you have your pet gorilla tighten your screws or use a torque wrench on them. I did not say every set of grips will be ruined without using a spacer. I put them in with my grips as insurance. was meant for people in general, not you personally.

Everything else I said was just the truth. Remember, I never know who is on the other end of that screw driver when they are putting my grips on.

Some people are just not mechanically inclined, yes even gun people.

But I'm surprised that no one has made any comments on my question about Bisley grips. No one cares that the grip screw on them is so obviously off center?

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I pay little, if any, attention to the Bisleys because I just don't like them. They may be the greatest thing since pizza delivery, but they look "wrong" to me. JMHO, of course.

That said, it appears that the front strap curves down more abruptly than the "conventional" series grips, thus perhaps changing the "look" of the screw placement . . . if ya understand what I'm trying to say. Like there's more wood in front of the screw and less behind it, but the screw is still in approximately the same location w/respect to the mainspring.

Could you post a comparison pic of each, Cary . . . one of each, with the near side panel removed so we can see the internal arrangement?

 

[caryc]

I pay little, if any, attention to the Bisleys because I just don't like them. They may be the greatest thing since pizza delivery, but they look "wrong" to me. JMHO, of course.

That said, it appears that the front strap curves down more abruptly than the "coonventional" series grips, thus perhaps changing the "look" of the screw placement . . . if ya understand what I'm trying to say. Like there's more wood in front of the screw and less behind it, but the screw is still in approximately the same location w/respect to the mainspring.

Could you post a comparison pic of each, Cary . . . one of each, with the near side panel removed so we can see the internal arrangement?

Sorry buddy, but would you believe I don't have a Bisley revolver? As I stated somewhere in this thread, I'm not fond of them. Remember I don't make Bisley grips unless the customer sends me the grip frame.

I got the Bisley grip screw location off a brand new pair of Ruger Bisley grips.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I understand there's quite a variation between various different examples of the Bisley grip frame. True?

 

[caryc]

I understand there's quite a variation between various different examples of the Bisley grip frame. True?

Yes it is. Check the pics below. The first pic is the grip on a carbon steel frame. This is just a new frame that was never blued.

The second pic is the same grip on a stainless frame. Both grips are on the pin and even with the back strap on the grip frames.