caryc
Hawkeye
There seems to be differing opinions about how people handle the plow handle grip. So, let's find out. Lets leave out the larger grips like the true larger Super Blackhawk grip and stick with the quasi Colt Saa size.
Grip...pinkey under or not?
- Thread starter caryc
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frank n texas
Single-Sixer
I prefer a thumb rest in addition to a pinky rest on the bottom of the grip
Sacramento Johnson
Blackhawk
Howdy!
No pinky under the butt. My fingers are thin enough I can put all of them on the grip comfortably with room to spare at the bottom, of an old model Vaquero grip frame. Trying to put the pinky underneath is actually painful, especially upon recoil. I never suggest the pinky underneath grip to anyone with a small hand.
No pinky under the butt. My fingers are thin enough I can put all of them on the grip comfortably with room to spare at the bottom, of an old model Vaquero grip frame. Trying to put the pinky underneath is actually painful, especially upon recoil. I never suggest the pinky underneath grip to anyone with a small hand.
If I put my pinky digit under a Colt, or a Ruger XR3 grip frame, my XL hand sets too low. To each his own and---YMMV, IMHO etc. and so on... :wink:
I cannot 'pick one'. It depends on the gun. On Single Six size, and larger, I do not, however on my Bearcats I have to.
JimMarch1
Blackhawk
Cary,
You are finally asking the right question because your grips are not optimal to a dedicated pinkie-under shooter who curls the pinkie across the bottom of the grip. Some folks do a "pinkie under" where the pinkie is just curled up flat under the grip without actually using the pinkie to control recoil. That kind of pinkie-under shooter can use a flat-bottomed grip but the people doing it right (pinkie cupped under the grip and across) need either beveled bottom or better yet (FAR BETTER!) round-bottom.
You need a round-bottom option. Not just the traditional bevel - actual ROUND on the bottom combined with a gunfighter-type profile (the way Eagle does 'em).
I'm still using my original black plastic NewVaq grips dremel-tooled round-butt by me. I haven't found anything as useful so far. I wish to hell I could find something decent.
Nobody else is smart enough, yet, to do round-bottom grips for SA-type wheelguns. One company used to do 'em years ago, long out of biz that I know of.
You are finally asking the right question because your grips are not optimal to a dedicated pinkie-under shooter who curls the pinkie across the bottom of the grip. Some folks do a "pinkie under" where the pinkie is just curled up flat under the grip without actually using the pinkie to control recoil. That kind of pinkie-under shooter can use a flat-bottomed grip but the people doing it right (pinkie cupped under the grip and across) need either beveled bottom or better yet (FAR BETTER!) round-bottom.
You need a round-bottom option. Not just the traditional bevel - actual ROUND on the bottom combined with a gunfighter-type profile (the way Eagle does 'em).
I'm still using my original black plastic NewVaq grips dremel-tooled round-butt by me. I haven't found anything as useful so far. I wish to hell I could find something decent.
Nobody else is smart enough, yet, to do round-bottom grips for SA-type wheelguns. One company used to do 'em years ago, long out of biz that I know of.
frank n texas
Single-Sixer
That is partly why I made my own custom modified grip for my Colt 1911 that included a thumb rest and a pinky rest right at the bottom of the grips...Big gun and very small hand...Maintaining exact grip thru out strings of slow,timed, and rapid fire during "bullseye" competition was imperative...
I wear a sz 13 ring, and there's just not room for all my fingers on the grip. Took me too long to realize this, but after continued battering of my middle finger on the trigger guard and developing a nasty flinch, my middle finger was happy when I began curling my pinky below the grip, creating a comfortable gap for my middle finger from the trigger guard. :mrgreen:
WAYNO.
WAYNO.
caryc
Hawkeye
JimMarch1 said:
I'm sorry you don't like my grips, but I'm in business. I make what sells and I always have a backlog of orders. I don't think I've made a pair of grips for off the shelf sales in about two years now. I have all the orders I can handle. I can't please everybody. I'm only one man. Some folks kind of think that what works for them ought to be what everyone uses.
That kind of pinkie-under shooter can use a flat-bottomed grip but the people doing it right (pinkie cupped under the grip and across) need either beveled bottom or better yet (FAR BETTER!) round-bottom.
The people doing it right? Aren't you assuming that you know what's right for everyone by saying that's the right way to shoot?
Cary, ya can't please everybody on a website. :wink:
You can, and apparently do, please most of your customers, thiough, and that's all that matters for a custom supplier. I sure like mine.
Makes me wonder why anyone dis-satisfied with your flat-bottoms would own more than one set . . . or even buy them in the first place, since you offer the option of flat or beveled.
No "pinky-under" for me, but YMMV.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
You can, and apparently do, please most of your customers, thiough, and that's all that matters for a custom supplier. I sure like mine.
Makes me wonder why anyone dis-satisfied with your flat-bottoms would own more than one set . . . or even buy them in the first place, since you offer the option of flat or beveled.
No "pinky-under" for me, but YMMV.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
contender
Ruger Guru
I voted that I can go either way. Mostly it will be determined by the shape & size of the grip I'm holding. Example; The Single-Six will get the pinky under, while the Super Blackhawk will not. EDIT;
I voted first, then responded & then read the comments.
I have found that anybody who is serious about shooting needs a set of grips to fit THEIR hands & their style of shooting.
If I stick to factory grips, and I'm shooting a Blackhawk, I usually find my pinky prefers to be under the grip. But, if I make my own grips, then I do not put the taper at the bottom, & can hold one with my pinky on the grip.
Hard to get a definitive answer due to different hand sizes.
I voted first, then responded & then read the comments.
I have found that anybody who is serious about shooting needs a set of grips to fit THEIR hands & their style of shooting.
If I stick to factory grips, and I'm shooting a Blackhawk, I usually find my pinky prefers to be under the grip. But, if I make my own grips, then I do not put the taper at the bottom, & can hold one with my pinky on the grip.
Hard to get a definitive answer due to different hand sizes.
CraigC
Hawkeye
So Cary, does that mean you're making grips again?
To be clear, if there's enough room for all my digits, like with the Bisley, I like a flat bottom. If not, then beveled or rounded.
Uh, sometimes you have to try something before you figure out that you don't like it. I probably only have two or three pairs of Cary's grips that I wish were beveled instead of flat.....out of perhaps 16-18prs. For the record, I'm not "dissatisfied" with Cary or his work. I just found something that does not work for me. I'm 110% happy with every pair of grips he has made for me and would buy many more if given the opportunity.Ale-8(1) said:
To be clear, if there's enough room for all my digits, like with the Bisley, I like a flat bottom. If not, then beveled or rounded.
The traditional SAA grip suits me fine, be it on a Colt, the slightly-different (original) XR3Ruger, or the newer Cimarron SAA's, Uberti's, or whatever. In fact, it suits me right down to the ground...it's shape, cross section, bevel and all....and yep...I shoot with my little finger under the grip, been doiing it that way for years. One handed hold or two handed hold, it don't matter...the little finger of my strong hand goes under the grip. I discovered early-on that doing it that way is not only best for shooting, but it also provides a bit of extra balance, positions my thumb where it needs to be for re-cocking AND provides the needed leverage for doing so whithout disturbing the target picture any more than can be helped. That, and it is repetable, time after time, without looking or squirming. Just grab the gun and it's always in the same place in your hand. Stick your trigger finger out after grabing the gun and guess what?...it's parallel to the barrel....me thinks they call that "pointability".
No offense to any of the grip makers out there but for me, I've yet to see anything different that does all of that as well. And different they all are, in one way or another. Some are closer than others but...once ya start altering the cross section and/or length, and/or eliminating the bevel and/or flare...ya also start modifying and/or eliminating the points of reference that are burned into my muscle memory....so with but one or two exceptions over the years, I have found aftermarket grips to be unusable. And that's a shame, 'cause all of you do some very-perty work.
DGW
No offense to any of the grip makers out there but for me, I've yet to see anything different that does all of that as well. And different they all are, in one way or another. Some are closer than others but...once ya start altering the cross section and/or length, and/or eliminating the bevel and/or flare...ya also start modifying and/or eliminating the points of reference that are burned into my muscle memory....so with but one or two exceptions over the years, I have found aftermarket grips to be unusable. And that's a shame, 'cause all of you do some very-perty work.
DGW
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
Pinkie under-bevel bottom on all plow handled six shooters. This method keeps my middle finger out of harms way even on Super BH Hunter hard kickers.
I used to never shoot without a band-aid or two around that finger.
I used to never shoot without a band-aid or two around that finger.
I have small hands, and I just use what is on the gun. Now my LCP and KT p-32 the pinkie is under!
gramps
gramps
JimMarch1
Blackhawk
Pinkie under done "right" means the pinkie is a "hard index point" putting the grip in the same place in your hand for each shot. That's the first benefit. The second is that you can re-curl the pinkie after the shot to bring the barrel back down from recoil...basically the recoil "stretches the pinkie out straighter" and then re-curling the pinkie hauls the grip's rear end up, barrel down (pivoting about where the grip screw is).
This technique works well in the power levels the 1873 Colt .45 was made for - meaning the heavy 40gr powder charge load (holy black) under a 230gr lead slug - assuming it fits your hands. That original military load gives you 1,000fps or so from a 7.5" barrel - about 500ft/lbs of energy, less of course with a shorter barrel. That's about near the max the pinkie-under hold is good for...maybe a hair more, into modern standard 357 territory in the right hands.
Once you're into stout .44Mag, heavy 45LC+P in a large-frame Ruger or beyond, I believe the pinkie-under hold will collapse for most folks, and you'd be better off with a Ruger Bisley grip frame or the rather similar FA83 type, or for some folks a larger Super grip frame (with round "Hunter type" triggerguard or the similar BFR setup).
But for SASS/CAS level power up through modern combat loads in 45, 40S&W, 38-40, 357 or 9mm+P+, I think a pinkie-under done right gives you excellent indexing for a repeatable grip and fast recoil adjustments.
Oh yeah...almost forgot. This "gunfighter pinkie-under" type hold works best if the hammer is a bit lower than a stock NewVaq or a Colt SAA made after WW2, at least for one-hand operation. I have compared my NewVaq with pre-war specimen Colts including pre-1895 "black power frame" variants and found something very interesting. My NewVaq has long been fitted with an SBH hammer - basically the first mod I did back in 2005. When I hold my gun in a pinkie-under hold, the hammer tip ends up right at the middle joint in my strong-side thumb. I then fold my thumb across the hammer pad and instead of "dragging it down" by friction I am firmly pushing the hammer down from above.
When I held 1st Gen Colt SAAs the same way, the same thing happened - tip of the hammer spur when right to that middle joint. When I tried with several post-war variant Colts, tip went into the pad of my thumb same as it did on my stock NewVaq (and why I switched hammers). Tried on several Ubertis - same as the post-war Colts. Tried a USFA Rodeo - same as the PRE-WAR Colts...woah!
Based on my findings, SASS's rule change allowing SBH hammers on Rugers "and similar type hammers for other guns" turns out to be a good thing in terms of historical accuracy. The SBH hammer turns out to clone the ergonomics of the original Colts despite looking funky. If SASS is to be about, in part, preserving (and even re-discovering) old west gunfighting skills, the SBH hammer is not to be sneered at.
This is what I'm talking about:
Top, tip is going straight to my thumb's joint, bottom I've started to fold my thumb over the hammer.
Of course, now that same gun is so extensively, extremely modified that a SASS match would just laugh
. Things like magazine feeding with up to 14rd capacity and muzzle-gas-powered automatic shell ejection...yeah. Of course, they've been joking about a "steampunk unlimited" class.
On a more serious note: Cary, look at your poll. Add the first and last entry together and pinkie-under is dominating this poll.
This technique works well in the power levels the 1873 Colt .45 was made for - meaning the heavy 40gr powder charge load (holy black) under a 230gr lead slug - assuming it fits your hands. That original military load gives you 1,000fps or so from a 7.5" barrel - about 500ft/lbs of energy, less of course with a shorter barrel. That's about near the max the pinkie-under hold is good for...maybe a hair more, into modern standard 357 territory in the right hands.
Once you're into stout .44Mag, heavy 45LC+P in a large-frame Ruger or beyond, I believe the pinkie-under hold will collapse for most folks, and you'd be better off with a Ruger Bisley grip frame or the rather similar FA83 type, or for some folks a larger Super grip frame (with round "Hunter type" triggerguard or the similar BFR setup).
But for SASS/CAS level power up through modern combat loads in 45, 40S&W, 38-40, 357 or 9mm+P+, I think a pinkie-under done right gives you excellent indexing for a repeatable grip and fast recoil adjustments.
Oh yeah...almost forgot. This "gunfighter pinkie-under" type hold works best if the hammer is a bit lower than a stock NewVaq or a Colt SAA made after WW2, at least for one-hand operation. I have compared my NewVaq with pre-war specimen Colts including pre-1895 "black power frame" variants and found something very interesting. My NewVaq has long been fitted with an SBH hammer - basically the first mod I did back in 2005. When I hold my gun in a pinkie-under hold, the hammer tip ends up right at the middle joint in my strong-side thumb. I then fold my thumb across the hammer pad and instead of "dragging it down" by friction I am firmly pushing the hammer down from above.
When I held 1st Gen Colt SAAs the same way, the same thing happened - tip of the hammer spur when right to that middle joint. When I tried with several post-war variant Colts, tip went into the pad of my thumb same as it did on my stock NewVaq (and why I switched hammers). Tried on several Ubertis - same as the post-war Colts. Tried a USFA Rodeo - same as the PRE-WAR Colts...woah!
Based on my findings, SASS's rule change allowing SBH hammers on Rugers "and similar type hammers for other guns" turns out to be a good thing in terms of historical accuracy. The SBH hammer turns out to clone the ergonomics of the original Colts despite looking funky. If SASS is to be about, in part, preserving (and even re-discovering) old west gunfighting skills, the SBH hammer is not to be sneered at.
This is what I'm talking about:
Top, tip is going straight to my thumb's joint, bottom I've started to fold my thumb over the hammer.
Of course, now that same gun is so extensively, extremely modified that a SASS match would just laugh
. Things like magazine feeding with up to 14rd capacity and muzzle-gas-powered automatic shell ejection...yeah. Of course, they've been joking about a "steampunk unlimited" class.On a more serious note: Cary, look at your poll. Add the first and last entry together and pinkie-under is dominating this poll.
caryc
Hawkeye
JimMarch1 said:
I never claimed to know what everyone in the US uses as their grip.
The information I did give is what people order from me and it's still flat bottoms. I never try to influence anyone on their choice since they're paying for the grips. If you ask anyone of my customers, they'll tell you, it's their choice. It makes no difference to me. It takes the same amount of time to do it either way.
You used quite a lot of words and figures in your post but what you are posting is what works for you.
