Golden Sabers 40 S&W

[hunter24605]

Hey all, new member here...I've been reloading for center rifles for years and just recently started for semi auto hand guns...I've ran into an issue loading 180 gr Golden Sabers in my SD40...If I load them as recommended, by seating them with the top of the forcing band flush with the case mouth, I end up with an OAL of 1.190, which is quite long by SAAMI standards..I know from loading rifles that SAAMI standards are just that, standards, and each rifle will accommodate different OAL's...Now, I made 5 dummy rounds with the bullets set to this depth without a crimp. I loaded them in the mag and and ran them through the gun chambering and ejecting each one. After measuring the ejected dummy rounds, I didn't have any setback. I can only assume that if I didn't have the free bore in the gun to accommodate the longer round, a non-crimped round would have been setback some, especially considering I can push them in the case with a fair amount of thumb pressure. Am I correct in assuming this? I have all the OAL gauges and modified cases for my rifles, but not any way to measure handgun chambers yet. Thanks for any & all input.

 

[427mach1]

Welcome to the forum. I would check your reloading manual for the load you are using. Does it specify an OAL? I would follow their recommended length. Also, did you check the case length before your loaded them? Is the brass on the long side? If the untrimmed brass is long, the loaded cartridge could run long if you are seating to the cannelure. That being said, if your rounds are long but still cycle, you are on the safe side of the curve; i.e., you have excess volume behind the bullet, which would lower the pressure, assuming sufficient freebore. Unfortunately, your muzzle velocity might be a little lower, too.

 

[hunter24605]

No specific data available for the golden saber, that I could find, so I used standard JHP data and backed off the charge to incrementally work up. If I used OAL for standard JHP, I'm past the full diam forcing band and into the smaller section of the bullet. I'm not certain why these golden sabers are "two stage" (for lack of a better term) but I've read that they should be crimped on the forcing band, not above it..They don't have a cannelure..The brass was all new, but to be certain, I measured them and they were within tolerance....I'm beginning to think that maybe the 180 grain may be better suited for a 10mm and not 40 S&W, and 165 gr in 40.

 

[427mach1]

That's interesting. I load 180 plated bullets to 1.125 and have never had this problem. Do you have any factory Golden Saber rounds you can compare to?

 

[427mach1]

I know it's just a photo, but it appears the 180 grain Golden Sabers shown here are loaded deeper than the forcing groove.

 

[hunter24605]

The factory rounds I looked at in the store a few minutes ago look the same. It appears that the band is past flush with the case mouth and the case is rolled over to the bullet.

 

[427mach1]

Then I would load them within SAAMI specified lengths and work up starting at minimum. FYI, cases that headspace on the mouth, like the 40, use a taper crimp. Your dies will have a taper crimp.

 

[contender]

Almost all the shooters I know in USPSA competition,, myself included,,, use a 180 grn bullet in our 40 cals.
I'd look at a box of factory (like the ones shown) and see if you could get a OAL measurement. Then, using that as a GUIDE,,, start with lower charges of powder & work up. As noted,,, the 40 headspaces on the case mouth,,, so a taper crimp is necessary.

 

[hunter24605]

Went to the range today to test out the GS's...I gave them a pretty standard OAL of 1.130, which put the band below the case mouth..Absolutely no feeding issues and accuracy was good..I used 7.6 grains of Longshot and the speed was pretty impressive with an average of 1089 fps from a 4 shot string

 

[427mach1]

Glad you had good results! That sounds like a pretty hot load, any signs of excessive pressure?

 

[hunter24605]

No, there wasn't any pressure signs. Everything looked good, although you can certainly feel its hotter than most factory ammo . I started at 6.7 grains and worked up incrementally from there to 7.6 using Hodgdon data for 180 gr Hornady JHP with Longshot powder. Hodgdon data lists 8 grain as max for the Hornady JHP, but I didn't go that far for the GS.

 

[7p's]

The above picture shows that Remington Golden Saber to be the brass version. FYI There are two versions of the Golden Saber - the brass and the bonded. Remington does not sell the bonded version as a reloading component.

 

[427mach1]

Yes, that is likely a little hotter than factory rounds. My plinking recipe is 7.1 grains of Longshot with a 180 grain Rainier plated bullet. This gives me about 1075 fps out of my 4.2" Ruger KP944, and right at 1000 fps out of my 3.5" 4013TSW. The max load in the Hornady manual is 7.5 grains for their 180 grain bullet.

 

[Srb08]

the cannelure on that bullet is there to keep the core from separating from the jacket. It's not a crimp groove.