Frustrated M77 owner

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P&Y

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
9
Hello, I am curious if all you M77 owners just live with your scope being mounted high on your rifle. I only use rifles with scopes mounted low and tight. I am trying to get scopes mounted on two new Hawkeyes and what should be the most routine, simple process has turned into a drawn out PITA.

At any rate, I am afraid I will be condemned to having my scopes mounted unacceptably high, every photo I see on this model of rifle with an scoped mounted there is a big gap between the rifle's barrel and scope bell. I can't stomach that.

I purchased two new all weathers and took them to a gunsmith as I had read about them being notoriously inaccurate without a fair amount of work. The smith bedded the stocks, worked the triggers and polished the barrels to give me the best chance at acceptable accuracy. Now I'm trying to learn the nuances to the strange scope mounting system found on these models. Any info is very much appreciated!
 

wunbe

Buckeye
Joined
May 19, 2002
Messages
1,240
Location
Reston VA USA
Have not owned a Ruger bolt gun in years -- no decades -- but in general terms the rings come in low, medium, and high. As long as the bolt clears the tube you can mount it low as you want. You may even be able to have the bolt altered to get more clearance.

wunbe
 

rangerbob

Buckeye
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
1,240
The rings that come with the rifles are higher than you need. They usually come with a #4 and a #5 ring. Keep the #4 ring and swap the #5 for a #3 ring. Mount the #3 in the front and the #4 on the rear. That's about as low as one can go with the factory rings. Ruger will exchange the rings if they are still in their package. Bob!! :D
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Messages
5,636
Location
Oregon City, Oregon
P&Y said:
Hello, I am curious if all you M77 owners just live with your scope being mounted high on your rifle. I only use rifles with scopes mounted low and tight. I am trying to get scopes mounted on two new Hawkeyes and what should be the most routine, simple process has turned into a drawn out PITA.

At any rate, I am afraid I will be condemned to having my scopes mounted unacceptably high, every photo I see on this model of rifle with an scoped mounted there is a big gap between the rifle's barrel and scope bell. I can't stomach that.

I purchased two new all weathers and took them to a gunsmith as I had read about them being notoriously inaccurate without a fair amount of work. The smith bedded the stocks, worked the triggers and polished the barrels to give me the best chance at acceptable accuracy. Now I'm trying to learn the nuances to the strange scope mounting system found on these models. Any info is very much appreciated!

Welcome to the forum. Tell me you're funnin' with us already. :mrgreen:

If you have a large bell or are needing to clear iron sights, you have no choice but to mount high. If not, as the previous posters said, rings come in different heights to suit your preference. Your gunsmith that took your money didn't tell you that?

Also, did you try your rifle for accuracy before you spent a lot of money on improvements at the gunsmith? If you'd tried it first, and not read the notorious inaccuracy reports, you might have saved some money, instead of turning a 1" gun into a 1" gun. 8)

I would think too, if you dislike the strange scope mounting system so much, and you read of the notorious inaccuracy, maybe should have bought something else. :wink:
 

kmoore

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
Messages
1,335
Location
Idaho
Really hard to say much without information on THE scopes that cause you problems and the ring numbers you use. As a shooter you should know there are bigger problems then just seeing a gap between the barrel and scope objective lens when mounting a scope higher than needed. If you do not know what that is you will learn. Your gunsmith knows and should have explained all that stuff. By the way Ruger is not the only co. that makes rings for ruger bolt rifles.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
5,120
Location
Southwest Washington
I ALWAYS shoot my rifles for accuracy/function before any smithing is to be done. As to ring height, what "rangerbob" said. I don't trust "urban legend" statements; always got to prove/disprove it to myself.

Welcome to the forum!

Dave
 

P&Y

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
9
Wayno I get they are specific and I'm not funnin', wish I was. My point is when you get a set of specified sized Ruger scope mounts they will position your optic uncomfortably high. I was just looking for remedies. It's a circus how they market them. I ordered a set and they mailed me two of the same size. Well they won't work as I need a staggered set..

Because you asked I did not shoot the rifle before investing in the smith work. I figured I'd just get all the cards in my favor first after hearing many reports of inaccuracy. It was worth it to me to avoid wasting time and ammo and possibly being disappointed. They may have shot great right out of the box but then I probably would have sent them off anyways to see how much I could improve on the base line LOL!

Kmoore I am a shooter but more so a hunter. For me, a rifle is much better with a scope mounted close to the barrel. You will know what I'm saying about cheek weld if you are a shooter and understand the amount of brush that gap can grab if your a hunter as well.

Just frustrated in the mounting system and was looking for oprions. Maybe experimenting with different combinations would work. I saw there is nothing lower than low listed on the web site and I didn't see a blue finish option either. I know they are available in blued so I called and after finally getting through (their phone directory system did not work) I spoke to a very friendly person. I knew we were in trouble however when I told her my rifle model and she asked if it was a bolt action.. I think we got it nailed down but then I realized it was $80 for a simple set of rings. I will have to re-evaluate.
 

JFB

Hunter
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
2,091
Location
Eastern Piedmont NC
IF your original rings were a MED & HIGH and you ordered two LOWs, you can mix one LOW with the MED.

for "standard 1" rings
measure the height from where the base touches the rib to the bottom of the scope fit
starting at approx 0.325" they are in 1/8" increaments

#3 low is 0.33"
#4 med is 0.45"
#5 hi is 0.58"

I stole this from a google search. shows that measurements are more of a ball park

RugerRings.jpg
 

mike4570

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
57
Location
Tappahannock, Va
While I favor the lowest scope mounting as possible, if the scope is mounted to low in relation to the stock comb you may create another problem.
For the 3 Ruger 77's I own, the #3&4 ring combo allows a solid cheek weld and puts my eye right in line with the center of the scope.
 

kmoore

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
Messages
1,335
Location
Idaho
Here's the problem as I see it from a proper cheek weld. Just look at the choices we now have in scopes. Tubes 1'', 30mm and 34mm. Front objective lens from maybe 28mm to over 50mm.
What should the factory put into the box with any rifle?
I have 2 77s and needed to go with leupold 30mm rings for a 4.5x14 with 50mm front lens, it has a nice small gap from the barrel and I was lucky to still get a good cheek weld. The other with 1' ruger rings, they might be med ht. with a leupold 4x12 44mm front lens. It also sits in the proper ht. Both are about 2 or 3mm from barrel. Sounds like if you could get the right height it would be or could be right. Not sure how many sets of rings I have had for ruger, several at least and fit them to the gun/scope.
 

pisgah

Buckeye
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
1,633
Location
Upstate SC
I agree that the rings supplied with new 77s are too high -- FOR THE SCOPES I USE. But for the scopes with ridiculous huge objectives that most folks seem to think necessary these days, they're just right.

To me, most of the folks who think humongous scopes are needed are right in there along with the ones who think nothing less than a .300 Win Mag will handle a whitetail at 50 yards...
 

P&Y

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
9
pisgah said:
I agree that the rings supplied with new 77s are too high -- FOR THE SCOPES I USE. But for the scopes with ridiculous huge objectives that most folks seem to think necessary these days, they're just right.

To me, most of the folks who think humongous scopes are needed are right in there along with the ones who think nothing less than a .300 Win Mag will handle a whitetail at 50 yards...

I couldn't agree more! Even with the huge variable in scope sizes Ruger rings are just too high IMO. Wished they offered an #2

I placed an order with Leupold for a couple of lower sets. Looking at the specs they should be closer to what I am looking for.
 

rangerbob

Buckeye
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
1,240
Leupold makes some really low rings for the Ruger rifles that use same height rings, such as #1's, Minis, and 77-22's, etc. Bob!! :D
 

artey

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 18, 2014
Messages
200
Location
Valley City ND
Can't believe it could be made this complicated. I go to great lengths to get my scopes, which are 40mm max, as low as possible...and Rugers combo of a #3 & #4 puts a 40mm bell right down almost to the barrel. You couldn't go any lower if you wanted to unless your looking at low power 28mm or 33mm non AO scopes. I have been satisfied with the mounting system and their exchange program. Only problem I've run into with newer long eye relief scope is mounting them far enough forward, but I struggle with that on several makes and models.
 

Coyote Hunter

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
265
Location
6491 feet above sea level
P&Y said:

I purchased two new all weathers and took them to a gunsmith as I had read about them being notoriously inaccurate without a fair amount of work. The smith bedded the stocks, worked the triggers and polished the barrels to give me the best chance at acceptable accuracy. Now I'm trying to learn the nuances to the strange scope mounting system found on these models. Any info is very much appreciated!

My first question is why would anyone buy two rifles they believe are “notoriously inaccurate”? Not something I would do.

As to Ruger accuracy, most of my rifles are Rugers – M77, MKII and Hawkeye. About half were purchased new, about half were purchased used. All shoot very well, some extremely well. My 1989 M77 .257 Roberts. For example, is a good choice for shooting clay pigeons on the 600-yard berm. So is my stainless MKII .30-06. Both were purchased used. Haven’t it one with my All Weather Hawkeye .280 Rem, but it has danced bullets all around their edges. But maybe I get all the good ones.

Ruger’s LC6 trigger, which is what you have in your All Weather rifles, is generally fairly good. I’ve polished all my Ruger triggers except the 2-stage in my MKII VT. Improvement on the LC6 is possible but not as noticeable as with the older ones. It will never be a Timney, but mine are fine for the range an hunting.

The “trick” to Ruger accuracy is to make sure the action is properly tightened to the stock. Front screw gorilla tight, rear screw tight and middle screw snug enough not to back out under recoil. I float the barrels on all my wood-stocked rifles, Ruger or otherwise, to avoid POI changes due to temp or humidity changes or expansion due to barrel heat. Have not found that necessary on the synthetic stocks.

Bedding a Ruger? Did one only to find out the scope was the problem. The rest are unbedded, properly tightened, trigger tuned except as noted above, and free floated. As mentioned above, all shoot very well or better.

Did your gunsmith see a rube coming?


P&Y said:
Wayno I get they are specific and I'm not funnin', wish I was. My point is when you get a set of specified sized Ruger scope mounts they will position your optic uncomfortably high. I was just looking for remedies. It's a circus how they market them. I ordered a set and they mailed me two of the same size. Well they won't work as I need a staggered set..

Because you asked I did not shoot the rifle before investing in the smith work. I figured I'd just get all the cards in my favor first after hearing many reports of inaccuracy. It was worth it to me to avoid wasting time and ammo and possibly being disappointed. They may have shot great right out of the box but then I probably would have sent them off anyways to see how much I could improve on the base line LOL!

… understand the amount of brush that gap can grab if your a hunter as well.
….

By now you’ve figured out that a proper ‘set’ of Ruger rings is comprised of two different height rings – 3 and 4, 4 and 5, 5 and 6, etc. If you ordered two of the same height as a ‘set’, and got that, you got what you ordered.

Most of my rifles have the 4-5 medium set that are factory standard. Catching brush has never been a problem. (I also have some with low and high rings, depending on the scope). You are not stuck with the standard medium height. Remember, the Ruger rings come “free” with the rifles. Ruger provides a set that will the proudest possible set of circumstances – medium height.

There is no way I would send a rifle to a gunsmith for extensive work before shooting it – Ruger, Remington, Savage, whatever.

Sample center-to-center groups from my rifles:

.232”, 3 shots @ 100, M77 .257 Roberts
.262”, 3 shots @ 100, M77 7mm RM
.5”, 4 shots @ 200, MKII VT .22-250

When making 100-yard scope checks prior to hunting, it is not uncommon to have multiple holes touching with overall group sizes under .75”. Can’t guarantee your rifles would have done that but you’ll never know. In any case, I’ve seen no reason to bed my Rugers, except the one noted above where the scope turned out to have a problem, as any incremental improvement would be well past the point of diminishing returns.

Hope your rifles shoot superbly and that you didn’t just waste a bunch of money.
 

P&Y

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
9
coyote hunter, I'm glad to hear your rifles are so good. To answer your question I just decided to purchase two new rifles with reputations for inaccuracy :lol: , legitimate question tho. Mainly I was after the shortest overall length in combination with specific calibers. The Rugers fit the bill! It was after purchase I noticed the inaccuracy trend. In reading more it actually sounds like this was from previous barrels and improperly torqued action screws.

I needed to have the barrels threaded and thought the triggers could be improved so I had them worked, like you have done. I thought why not on the bedding as I said previously even if this would ultimately prove unnecessary it was worth it to me.
 

P&Y

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
9
Range update

Well after numerous trips to the range involving various ammunition combinations got the BEST group today:

1.63".... And I thought I was frustrated before!

I apologize if I offended anyone in posting my experience but do appreciate those that provided positive replies.

I don't know what I will do moving forward, my Ruger ownership has been a very aggravating experience involving something that is supposed to be fun.

I will say this forum is very helpful and a great resource!
 

huntsman22

Blackhawk
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
655
Location
Kiowa/Deer Trail, CO
Make sure the mag box is free to move slightly, tighten as coyote hunter said, free float and try a different known scope. You didn't mention scope, but if I were to guess, with the bad groups, it would be nikon....
 

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