Flag etiquette

[Bob Wright]

Oneof our ministrys to the kids is called the Master Club. This for very young children is a Bible study time and recreation time. They begin meeting with the adult congregation in the Wednesday night service. There is an opening prayer followed by pledging to the US flag, the Christian flag, and to the Bible. The first night the American flag was on the audience's right, which was incorrect. I brought this to the attention of the director and now the American flag is placed correctly.

My hat is off to the director, those childre, and the homes that nourish them!

Bob Wright

P.S. The Master Cub sponsored a nationwide coloring contest. One chlld from our church placed Third, Nationwide!

 

[davevabch]

I could not tell you. Never even head of a Christian Flag or Master group. But willing to learn. What denomination to you belong to?

 

[Bob Wright]

I could not tell you. Never even head of a Christian Flag or Master group. But willing to learn. What denomination to you belong to?

I am Baptist, and Independent, Fundamental Baptist. Never having a child in the Master Club I'm not too savvy on all of its tenents of belief or doctrine. But the clubs are nationwide in (mostly) Baptist churches.

The Master club meets during Wednesday night adult Bible Study/prayer time. They are graded according to age, I believe 4 years old up to fifth grade (in scholl). There are challenges to learn Bible verses and Biblical accounts. The children earn awards for their progress. There is a Master Club "Store" in which they can buy toys or treats with earned points. And they participate in games (To burn off youthful energy) and play time. And, at my church, they encourage children to earn the Silver Eagle award for memorizing the sixty-six books of the Bible and reciting them.

Bob Wright

 

[Bob Wright]

I could not tell you. Never even head of a Christian Flag or Master group. But willing to learn. What denomination to you belong to?

The Christian Flag is white, with a blue field in the upper corner. A red, Latin, cross is in the blue field. It was adopted as a symbol around 1887 by the National Council of Churches. It has no Biblical basis and its use/display is entirely optional. Its acceptance is pretty well accepted by all Christian denominations, while some reject its use on grounds that it is militant, and therefore against their doctrine.

Bob Wright

 

[davevabch]

The Christian Flag is white, with a blue field in the upper corner. A red, Latin, cross is in the blue field. It was adopted as a symbol around 1887 by the National Council of Churches. It has no Biblical basis and its use/display is entirely optional. Its acceptance is pretty well accepted by all Christian denominations, while some reject its use on grounds that it is militant, and therefore against their doctrine.

Bob Wright

I am researching the flag. but still curious what denomination your are. If you prefer to not say that is fine. I am in no way trying to disparage you are your religion.

 

[LAH]

I am researching the flag. but still curious what denomination your are. If you prefer to not say that is fine. I am in no way trying to disparage you are your religion.

I wish not to put words in Bob's mouth, only to give you some insight.

Bob is a Baptist. You can read here: https://www.christianity.com/church...ould-know-about-baptists.html#google_vignette

He is a Fundamental Baptist. You can read here:
https://fundamental.church/beliefs
His Church is Independent. You can read here: https://www.independentbaptist.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-independent-baptist1/

Hope this helps.

 

[contender]

He answered you.

"I am Baptist, and Independent, Fundamental Baptist."

 

[Bob Wright]

I am researching the flag. but still curious what denomination your are. If you prefer to not say that is fine. I am in no way trying to disparage you are your religion.

I answered that in post #3. I am Baptist, my church is an Independent, Fundamental Baptist. By Independent we mean we do not subscribe to any organization suach as the Southern Baptist Convention, or American Baptist Convention. We rely on the Bible for our organization and ordinances. We observe only two ordinances: Believer's Baptism and The Lord's Supper.

And I certainly don't mind telling you my/our beliefs, in fact, gladly so!

Bob Wright

 

[Yaworski]

Oneof our ministrys to the kids is called the Master Club. This for very young children is a Bible study time and recreation time. They begin meeting with the adult congregation in the Wednesday night service. There is an opening prayer followed by pledging to the US flag, the Christian flag, and to the Bible. The first night the American flag was on the audience's right, which was incorrect. I brought this to the attention of the director and now the American flag is placed correctly.

For we old farts, flag etiquette has changed in our lifetime. When I was a youngster, the rule for auditoriums was that if the flag was on the floor with the audience, then it would go on the audience's right. If the flag was on the dais or stage, it would be on the speaker's right. This was quite confusing, so the rules were changed and it is always on the speaker's right. So long ago, the placement of your flag would have been correct.

However, the flag code has no penalties attached to it and violations of the flag code are protected under the first amendment.

 

[Bob Wright]

Yaworski said: "However, the flag code has no penalties attached to it and violations of the flag code are protected under the first amendment."

Penalities or not, always strive to do the right thing.

Bob Wright

 

[Yaworski]

The Christian Flag is white, with a blue field in the upper corner.

Interesting, never heard of it.

 

[Yaworski]

Penalities or not, always strive to do the right thing.

True but if you do it wrong, it really doesn't matter as long as no disrespect is intended.

 

[LAH]

Interesting, never heard of it.

Here is a look.

 

[Bob Wright]

For we old farts, flag etiquette has changed in our lifetime. When I was a youngster, the rule for auditoriums was that if the flag was on the floor with the audience, then it would go on the audience's right. If the flag was on the dais or stage, it would be on the speaker's right. This was quite confusing, so the rules were changed and it is always on the speaker's right. So long ago, the placement of your flag would have been correct.

However, the flag code has no penalties attached to it and violations of the flag code are protected under the first amendment.

As you say, but I cannot remember a time when the US Flag was correct when placed to the audience's right. The flag, and the field when suspended, was always to the left of the audience.

Bob Wright

 

[Yaworski]

As you say, but I cannot remember a time when the US Flag was correct when placed to the audience's right. The flag, and the field when suspended, was always to the left of the audience.

I may be older than you or I just paid more attention.

If we accept that BSA is a patriotic organization and that they would correctly report the etiquette for flag display, my 1970, 1959, and 1934 editions of the Boy Scout Handbook agree with what I said. Later handbooks in my collection only say that it goes to the right of the speaker.

I did a little internet sleuthing and found an American Legion site that comments that the change took place in 1976.

 

[Bob Wright]

During the War (World War II) I had a small booklet, I think it was on newsprint paper, with color cartoons showing proper display of the flag. And, best I can recall, the flag, and the blue field, was always to the viewer's left. I don't know whose auspices that booklet was distributed.

Bob Wright

 

[Yaworski]

During the War (World War II) I had a small booklet, I think it was on newsprint paper, with color cartoons showing proper display of the flag. And, best I can recall, the flag, and the blue field, was always to the viewer's left. I don't know whose auspices that booklet was distributed.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the "blue field" (the canton), that really has no bearing on how the flag is displayed on a staff. When displayed on a wall, the canton always goes in the upper left as viewed. It's the same if the flag is displayed vertically or horizontally.

I've cited the Boy Scout Handbook and the American Legion and identified when the rules changed. You are free to believe whatever you want.

 

[Bob Wright]

Yaworski,

I'm not arguing with you as to who is right or wrong, simply that over the yesrs we've had diffeerent information.

As to the "blue field" that is all I've ever it referred to. The word "canton" is new to me. In old descriptions of the flag I've always read "fprty eight (then) white stars on a blue field."

Bob Wright

P.S. I just read the American Legion's statement of flag etiquette and that area is referred to as the "Union."

 

[Chief]

The Flag code, mostly an American Legion construct, says a lot of things. Mostly people believe what they want or were told. My pet peeve is the rabid need for lighting at night. I can absolutely say that there are , as I type this warships of the United States Navy, underway , at night and the flag on the mast is not lighted. My flag is not afraid of the dark. If yours is then take it down at sunset.

 

[LAH]

The Flag code, mostly an American Legion construct, says a lot of things. Mostly people believe what they want or were told. My pet peeve is the rabid need for lighting at night. I can absolutely say that there are , as I type this warships of the United States Navy, underway , at night and the flag on the mast is not lighted. My flag is not afraid of the dark. If yours is then take it down at sunset.

I thought maybe warships took the flag down at night like we did on the Army base. I'm learning some new stuff here. As far as lighting the flag at night, I'm not sure where that comes from & like has been said here, flag etiquette comes from different sources. You mention Armerican Legion. Well this is from the VFW.

Illumination Guidelines
Per Federal Flag Code, Section 2, paragraph (a), it is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness.

I notice the Code states it is the "universal custom." Any of you guys know exactly what that means??

There's more on the flag here:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title4/pdf/USCODE-2011-title4.pdf

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Violations of these two provisions really bug me . . .

§ 8. Respect for flag

c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel.

We see these violated constantly. Large flags are frequently held/carried horizontally in parades and at athletic field events. And "flag apparel" is everywhere.

:mad:

 

[Yaworski]

We see these violated constantly. Large flags are frequently held/carried horizontally in parades and at athletic field events. And "flag apparel" is everywhere.

Flag apparel is not a "flag", it is merely a representation of the flag and in many cases, it is just red, white, and blue fabric.

About twenty years ago I was doing a lot of digging into rules about the flag, display, and wearing of it. I wound up exchanging emails with the folks at the Army Quartermasters office who are responsible for flag stuff. Apparently they make a distinction between a flag and a representation of a flag.

For example, a flag patch on your shirt is not a flag but a representation of a flag so the normal rules don't apply which is how the Army gets away with wearing their flags backwards. Similarly, pictures of flags on stamps, shirts, or birthday cakes are not flags, just representations of flags.

 

[Chief]

Violations of these two provisions really bug me . . .

§ 8. Respect for flag

c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel.

We see these violated constantly. Large flags are frequently held/carried horizontally in parades and at athletic field events. And "flag apparel" is everywhere.

:mad:

As long as the “flag apparel “ is not made from an actual flag I don’t think it matters but using a flags as a wrap or cape (think Olympic podium) should not be done. I don’t really get the negative for flat carry so long as it’s done for a respectable purpose.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Have it your way, but as far as I'm concerned when I see somebody wearing red/white striped pants and a shirt that's blue with stars all over it I see flag disrespect. JMHO to which I'm entitled, and I'll bet many agree with me.

 

[Yaworski]

 

[eveled]

It all comes down to respect.

For example burning a flag is considered disrespectful, but reverently burning an old tattered flag is respectful.

 

[Chief]

It all comes down to respect.

For example burning a flag is considered disrespectful, but reverently burning an old tattered flag is respectful.

Exactly, but even though this is considered disrespectful by many, it is considered political free speech by some. The flag code is not enforceable law. There was a time when Medals of Honor were awarded for protection of the flag. That kind of respect and reverence does not, as a whole , exist today and we are the worse for it.

 

[vito]

The American flag is not honored as it once was, because the very concept of honor has mostly disappeared. One hundred and fifty years ago, many would choose death over dishonor and I suspect that today few would make that same choice (and would rationalize their action by saying "live to fight another day" or similar words). General McArthur, in his famous farewell speech reiterated the concept of "duty, honor, country". Sadly, the very concept of duty, which includes respect and protection of our national symbol, barely exists. Honor is seen as something for suckers. And country for many is something to be ashamed of.

I grew up during better times, but sadly today is what it is.

 

[eveled]

I’ve heard people who are well traveled say that no other country displays their flag the way we do.

Public buildings and such but not infront of private houses or flying from trucks etc

If that is true then we as a whole are still more patriotic than the rest of the world.

 

[LAH]

It all comes down to respect.

For example burning a flag is considered disrespectful, but reverently burning an old tattered flag is respectful.

I am the President of John Beckley Chapter, West Virginia Society, Sons of the American Revolution. I'm also the State Flag Chairman. Each year we do a flag retirement ceremony. It is a very solemn time.