CALIBER WAR!
EQUIPMENT CONTROVERSY!
TACTICS CRITICISM!
Internet commandos . . .
LMAO
:lol: :lol: :lol:
EQUIPMENT CONTROVERSY!
TACTICS CRITICISM!
Internet commandos . . .
LMAO
:lol: :lol: :lol:
owsi26":g9e0vf1y said:I'm sure all of you are aware of this shoot-out where agents were killed. Some were shooting, the then standard, 9mm. The FBI later changed to .40. Many LE agencies also changed to .40.
Ammunition has improved since then, including 9mm and other calibers. But, most LE agencies have not returned to 9mm.
Considering that LEO's have put their trust in larger calibers than 9mm, do you put your trust in 9mm?
(Revised post)
owsi26":b83kmdqn said:2ndamd":b83kmdqn said:Hahaha!
That's funny!
Does the FBI Miami/Dade shootout concern me with carrying a 9mm? Hahaha!
Seriously now for a minute; No. The shootout does not concern me with carrying a 9mm.
Now, ask me if I am concerned with some of the decisions made by the FBI that fateful day? YES!!!!!!!!
It was tactics and not equipment that lost the lives that day.
Maybe no one should carry a revolver either. I mean one Agent got hit in the hand with a .223 round fired from a mini-14. He had a peice of his hand bone embedded into the cylinder of the revolver which caused it to jam. What are the odds of that happening again?
I am glad that we learned so much from the poorly planned and poorly
executed day. I hope we do not have to repeat the BIG mistakes made that day.
ps by the way, carrying a 9mm and .38's that day were NOT the BIG mistakes
With all respect to everybody, my post wasn't: "Evaluate the FBI shootout." I wanted to reference one thing from that shoot out, their findings that they felt they should adopt a more powerful round.
I did state that 9mm ammunition has improved since then. So have a number of handgun ammunitions. But, the FBI and many LE agencies have not returned to 9mm.
So, considering that the FBI changed from 9mm to rounds that they considered more effective, do you feel comfortable using 9mm for self defense? If so, why?
I hope this clarifies everything.
Mike J":8y92d3ti said:My experience with what little bit of hunting I have done is that if I shoot a deer in the neck it is dead right there, if I shoot it in the lungs/ heart I will find it within 25 to 30 yards usually where it kicks out. That is using a .30-06 on white tails. Handgun calibers are no where near as powerful as it is. A lot can happen in the time it takes a deer to run 25 yards.
resident":2b6k67zz said:Have you ever seen a chicken with it's head cut off?
Mike J":2m3egwpw said:owsi here is a link to a brief about the Miami shootout. http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm In all honesty it has been a while since I read about this but as others have said the caliber used by the agents was not the real problem. There were tactical mistakes made that I believe had a bigger impact on the outcome.
Before you make a decision based on what you read in a magazine article please think about this. The gun rags make their money from advertising. Their objective is to get you to buy their advertisers product. There will always be an article trying to persuade you that what you have is not enough & you need something else. That is how they take money.
I own a couple of fullsize .40's & a subcompact 9mm. I would trust either caliber to work with quality ammunition. I believe between 9mm, .40 & .45 the quality of the ammunition used is probably more important than which caliber.
Yosemite Sam":5oxp1aag said:Don't forget the five extra magazines, 3 speed loaders, bear spray, "tactical" knife (must be black and scary looking), 1025 lumen flashlight and body armor. And that's just the load out to go get milk at the corner store.
-- Sam
Mike J":31g4xyi0 said:owsi-You are right-I don't have much faith in the gun rags. I do tend to think all handguns are underpowered. I believe shot placement is more important than caliber. I saw a story the other day about a guy hit 4 times with a .45 that went to the hospital-got took care of & went home.
My experience with what little bit of hunting I have done is that if I shoot a deer in the neck it is dead right there, if I shoot it in the lungs/ heart I will find it within 25 to 30 yards usually where it kicks out. That is using a .30-06 on white tails. Handgun calibers are no where near as powerful as it is. A lot can happen in the time it takes a deer to run 25 yards. I'm not saying a .45 can't be better-it might give a slight edge but I do believe shot placement is more important than caliber. If you disagree that is fine that's just my opinion.
BTW- Cool lyrics Snake somehow I missed that tune.
While there are many LE agencies that don't use it, there are many who do. Based on the most recent source of information I've been able to find it's the second most commonly purchased round by American LE agencies. Only the .40S&W is used by more LE agencies in the U.S.So, shouldn't we do everything we can to increase our chances of coming out of that fight alive? I have trouble dismissing the fact that the 9mm isn't used by many American LE agencies.
Some do, however there are many recognized experts who agree that the 9mm is a good choice for self-defense.Those who have done extensive testing of what round would best help to defend their lives, seem to lean towards larger calibers.
Come on... Comparing a double-stack 11 round 9mm to a single-stack 7 round .40 or .45 pistol is not at all a reasonable exercise. If you want to get an ACTUAL feel for the difference ,then the comparison should match guns of similar capacity. What are the weights of 11 round .40 and .45 pistols? Or if you want to stick to single-stack guns, what are the weights of 7 round 9mms?There we have two .40's and a .45 that weigh LESS than the Ruger SR9c in 9mm!
First of all, the fact is that many people who have given this topic a LOT of thought have simply come to different conclusions than you have.But, that is me. I respect, and maybe admire, your being able to stick with a 9mm and not giving thought to carrying a .40 or .45 or 10mm or ........