Does the famous FBI shoot-out concern you by carrying a 9mm.

[gatorhugger]

The terminal velocity of a 9mm shot into the chest cavity...
Nah, I'll just skip it.
People obsess over stuff. Carry a .25 raven.
You ain't never shooting anyone anyway.

 

[SteelShooter]

... if used with adequate planning and forethought!

Oh, I carry a .44 Mag snubbie. The 9MM is to club them with if 6 .44 full house rounds aren't sufficient deterrent.... :wink:

Oh rats! I forgot the .44 is a revolver too :roll:

 

[Pinecone]

Something not mentioned yet in this thread is the revolver vs. semi-auto business. I have watched many a person fumble with "jams" in semi-auto's including LEO's! One of the agents in fact was shot because he could "not" clear his jam. The sad fact is that many people carrying semi-auto's "do not" properly drill themselves in clearing jams quickly. If your going to trust your life and others lives to your semi-auto, you had better be doing this "religiously"! Remember the "old" adage, would you rather have 6 sure shots or 15 "maybes"!.......................Dick :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

That's why I only carry semi-auto's that don't jam.

I've had some jams with my Star Model 30, so it sits in the safe except for target shooting.

 

[Mike J]

My XD has never malfunctioned. My Ruger semi had one ammunition related malfunction (Remington UMC FMJ) around 2000 rounds ago. Modern semi autos are very reliable with quality ammunition. I do agree that practicing malfunction drills is still a good idea though.

 

[CanonLyles]

That's why I only carry semi-auto's that don't jam.

Too bad all semis jam at some point in time. Just hopefully not the wrong one.

 

[Anonymous]

Too bad all semis jam at some point in time. Just hopefully not the wrong one.

Well, I've owned my P944 for 12+ years and I've had absolutely zero failures of any kind. At that rate, it's reliability is ≥ than a revolver. I consider that a gun that simply does not jam. My SR9, well I've only shot about 325 rounds in one setting without a failure so that's all the data I have on that one, but I'm feeling pretty good about it so far.

I don't believe it's a fact that all semi-auto's will jam. My P944 shows no signs that it ever will based off the last 12 years of data. At any rate, I am familiar with clearing jams as I've had some guns that did. People should considering learning how to deal with revolver malfunctions too, but no one seems to suggest that. In fact they are usually worse as the gun is more than likely out of commission if it ever does.

 

[CBennett]

No, I went from a Glock 23 to a Ruger SR9c..because I shoot the 9mm round better..I can get more rounds on target quicker and in a better grouping with a 9mm than I can with a .40S&W. Someday I will have a .45 ACP also but thats down the road when I have "extra" $$$ I dont see myself going S&W .40 again.

 

[resident]

...I don't believe it's a fact that all semi-auto's will jam.....

And women never lie.

You've not shot enough autos long enough to have a better-founded opinion/experience, is all.

I do think the double-action, hammer, autos are an improvement in reliabilty though. At lest that first shot is more likely to go "bang" if there's one in the chamber.

The problem is (as reliability relates to wheel-guns) that if the primer is soaked with WD-40 or whatever and is a DUD.... with an auto you are standing there facing the BG looking like: :shock:

With a DA wheel gun, at least you can pull the trigger again and get a completely NEW round in-battery!

As much as I enjoy my P97... I am under no delusions it is more reliable than any of my DA revolvers.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I love it when someone gets on this forum to tell me revolvers don't jam, absolute hogwash!

 

[Anonymous]

...I don't believe it's a fact that all semi-auto's will jam.....

And women never lie.

You've not shot enough autos long enough to have a better-founded opinion/experience, is all.

I do think the double-action, hammer, autos are an improvement in reliabilty though. At lest that first shot is more likely to go "bang" if there's one in the chamber.

The problem is (as reliability relates to wheel-guns) that if the primer is soaked with WD-40 or whatever and is a DUD.... with an auto you are standing there facing the BG looking like: :shock:

With a DA wheel gun, at least you can pull the trigger again and get a completely NEW round in-battery!

As much as I enjoy my P97... I am under no delusions it is more reliable than any of my DA revolvers.

Wow, you know how long I've shot pistols, and how many times? Impressive, except your "guess" isn't accurate. I've been shooting pistols for a little over 20 years. I've owned and still do, some that have/do jam.

I didn't say semi-auto's as a rule will never jam, I said I have one that I consider does not. 12+ years with my P944 which has never jammed or malfunctioned in any way is a track record long enough for me to make that statement about it, and no, it hasn't sat in a safe unfired for 12 years. I never counted the rounds, but it's well in the thousands. I also said I won't carry an auto that jams, and I won't. I may own a few, but I don't carry them, they are last resort/target shooting pistols only.

My P944 is the most reliable gun I own. Even compared to my Maadi AK, and Norinco AK, although in their defense, they had a lot more rounds through them, but still they have had a couple of malfunctions each.

If you think the ONLY malfunction possible with a revolver is simply a dud round, I would suggest it may be you that hasn't shot them enough. Again, just suggesting that based off of what you said to me.

At this point in time, I can't imagine a revolver being more reliable than my P944 as it has been 100%, and you can only equal that, you can't top it.

Either way, I trust my two Ruger pistols with my life, and IF they do jam, I can deal with it, but has to happen first. Maybe I just know how to clean and maintain mine better than many other people.

 

[Mike J]

The only advantage a revolver might have over an auto (reliability wise) is that it is not dependent on the ammunition to function properly.
Anything man made can have problems. I trust my auto's. I just make sure I have decent ammunition in them if I am carrying them. Cheap stuff is fine for the range but that's it.

To me where a revolver shines is it's ability to shoot a wide variety of loads without problems. I like to carry a .357 in addition to my rifle if I'm hunting but I like the capacity of autos for more urban environs. I'm not knocking anyone elses choices but those are mine.

 

[resident]

[... I've been shooting pistols for a little over 20 years. ....

I've got third-time hand reloads older than that, if you're attempting to claim you've got vastly more shooting experience.

(In fact, I've got some linotype-lead .45 rds I reloaded for at lest the 3rd time back in 1976, and shot some of them just last week.)

I've got a couple autos that have never jammed on me, too. I just don't believe they're incapable of jamming because I know better. I've never had any revolver ever jam on me.

(I take it back, I had a S&W give me trouble once, but it wasn't a true "jam" during firing. It was a failure to open for reload, due to an ejector-rod which had become unscrewed. Properly re-torqueing it took care of that. It would not have presented an interruption to self-defense like many many autopistols have to their owners.)

I still consider revolvers far more reliable than autos, despite the fact I usually carry a .45 auto. It's simply more convenient and comfortable to carry in a waistband.

"The most likely scenario of self-defense will be three-shots fired in the dark at a distance of less than seven feet. Perfect situation for any revolver.", Bill Jordan

 

[Anonymous]

[... I've been shooting pistols for a little over 20 years. ....

I've got third-time hand reloads older than that, if you're attempting to claim you've got vastly more shooting experience.

If that is the route you want to take, I'm done with you on this.

You made the mild insult towards me that I apparently have not shot enough to know at all what I'm talking about and I merely established that I have. I never made any attempt to compete against you or anyone else in age or firearm experience because that means nothing to me.

You could be 90 yrs old, but I still know what I know, based off of my experience.

Granted, you don't know whether I'm 42, or 24, but I don't know why you automatically assumed I was the latter.

 

[doc540]

compromises and tradeoff's

I'm not "concerned" about 9mm doing the job.

I load mine with CorBon DPX Barnes Bullets and stack enough of them that, hopefully, they'll deter an attack.

I carry a Colt .38 snub with the same Barnes bullets.

compromises and tradeoff's

 

[Pinecone]

Who said revolvers don't jam? Sure they do but not as frequently as semi-auto's do. With revolvers vs. semi auto's we have two entirely different timing systems going on. Automatic mechanics vs. manipulated mechanics. In the Miami shoot-out which this thread started on, none of the revolvers used jammed. One of the semi-auto's did in fact jam and the agent was basically disarmed and became a victim. No question that there are a lot of very reliable semi-auto's out there and I own several of them myself! What I mentioned above is the "need" to know how to clear jams in one of them. Murphy's law can show up in "any" endeavor. The "survivors" are usually the one's that are better prepared........................Dick :wink:

 

[CanonLyles]

WOW! Look what I started... LOL Fact of the matter is, ANY gun can jam. The only gun that I own that hasn't jammed (yet), is my M77 that I've had for 2 weeks. My SR9, 10/22, Rem. 870, Rem. 572, and my SP101. They all jammed for various reasons, i.e., bad ammo, limp wrist, dirt, GUN MALFUNCTION, etc. Anything mechanical, especially one with tight tolerences & timing like a firearm, can fail to operate.

Now, we all should know how to make the smaller chance of this happening our responsibility.

89grand, I wasn't trying to imply that your P944 isn't a great, reliable weapon. But, so are my SP101 and my 870. I trust my 870 more than any other gun I own, but it has jammed because of dirt being blown in by the notorious Oklahoma wind. It's a fact of life that will always be there, for all of us.

 

[Anonymous]

I will say again, that I never stated that any firearm cannot jam, my two AK's have on rare occasions, but my P94 never has. I can't very well worry about it because it hasn't done it. I can't consider it a gun that does. I do know full well it can, it just hasn't.

That's what I was talking about when I said I don't carry auto's that. I have a few that do, and I carried the P94 because it doesn't. Now I've been carrying my SR9, and it's only got 325 flawless rounds through it, but if it had malfunctioned at all during that first trip out, the P94 would be put back into service.

I just want to have a discussion, I don't mind at all disagreements or opposing views, I'm not at all upset. I just didn't like someonethat knows nothing about me insinuating I hadn't shot enough to know what I was saying, then being accused of trying to suggest I was an expert shooter when I never even remotely said that.

Anyway, we can all discuss this without insulting anyone. We're all here to better our knowledge, at least I know I am.

 

[CBennett]

I love it when someone gets on this forum to tell me revolvers don't jam, absolute hogwash!

I know they can and Ive come very close most likely but I have never MYSELF seen not had one jam..but I came close when firing the Police Academy(yeah when I was in the academy back in 1990 they were STILL using .357 Magnum Revolvers...one of the last classes B4 they went to 9mm)and through extended firing my hammer pull kept getting heavier and heavier till it got almost too hard to pull in DA...range officer took it scraped stuff off the forcing cone(Or at least thats what it looked like he was doing) and then gave it back and it was almost like new..he said that after a lot of regular firing and then a lot more with full house magnum loads you could get a build up that would start binding it up..now it literaly took over 100 rounds of .38 special wad cutters and another 60 of full load .357 magnum rounds to start binding all without any cleaning inbetween...I dont know if you would replicate that in a real world shootout ...that would be a hell of a gunfight with over 160 rounds of ammo from a single revolver shot .


as said I know Revolvers can jam but ive never seen one jam on a range or in RL nor had one jam on me.

On the other hand ive never seen a entire firing line for qualification regardless of the make(Ruger P89/95,Glock,Sig 226,Bereta92) ever make it through ALL the shooters and the entire course without at least one malfunction of some type ..weather it be Rugers,Glocks,S&W's,Berettas or Sig 226's every time I have had a range class when ive either been a instructor or just on the firing line at least ONE person has had to raise his hand because he has had some type of malfunction be it mag issues(bad magazine worn out or weak springs or followers),stovepipes,FTF,FTE,Limp Wristing...

 

[resident]

[...You made the mild insult towards me that I apparently have not shot enough to know at all what I'm talking about....

I am sincere when I say "I'm sorry" for the appearance of insult. I thought I was being "cute" or "jocular"... sort of like when you tell a smart alecky teenager "I've got SHOES older than you!"

Let's get back to the discussion and enjoy it. Again, I ddn't mean it as a derogatory comment. I only meant to point out that I've got a little bit of shooting experience as well, and in my experience, as far as dependability goes, autos are not as trustworthy as my dog. (and being a Lab, she heartily welcomes the burglar!) :lol: