Camping Gun Recommendations

[Dale53]

Cholo;
l enjoyed your story. I got treed by a mama bear with three cubs in Spence field. The bears came in at dusk, came right up to the shelter and the moma made a big display. I was in the top bunk and it was before they put the cyclone fence across the front of the shelters. She kept coming back and was puzzled when I didn't leave. She scared the bejesus out of me, I'll tell you THAT! She kept coming back until finally, about 1:00 A.M. after one more pass at me she and her cubs left for good.

When I came out of the woods, I checked in to the Chief Ranger and made a report on the bear. It turned out that she was making part of their living by rousting hikers in the shelter, then ravaging their packs, etc. Apparently, I was the first one to fail to leave. It must have been quite a scene with me giving her a cussin' and her doing the same thing right back...

That night I made a promise to the man above, to NEVER, EVER travel without a handgun. That has been about forty years ago and I never broke that promise!

My choice is a .44. A .357 magnum depends on barrel length for much more of it's power than a .44 or .45. Using a Blackhawk either the .44 or .45 properly loaded will definitely get the job done. In the S&W a 629 .44 Magnum gets my call. A short barrel in the two larger calibers doesn't give much up in stopping power. Anything less, unnh-unhh!

I spent a lot of time hiking by myself in the Smokies. The Cades Cove loop was my favorite but I, over time, covered most of the Smokies. I also did a good bit of flyfishing there, also. That was a good bit like wading in fast water crotch deep, walking on greased bowling balls!

FWIW
Dale53

 

[JWhitmore44]

I got one of these for the same intended usage, it's 45 colt

But I much prefer single action over double action.

The Boy Scouts will probably never know unless a parent turns you in. If you are not comfortable with any of the parents knowing, you will have to make sure that none of the boys ever finds out you are carrying. I would also keep it under my control at all times. Don't want a boy getting a hold if it. just the thoughts of a Scout master

By the way, thanks for volunteering your time for those boys.

 

[Ruger_rules]

Hi Beachbum,

This has always been a popular forum topic:

"I will be hiking/backpacking/camping/hunting... in Arizona/Montana/Alaska/... where there are black/brown/grizzly bears, cougar, moose,.... What kind of kit/camp/backup/last-ditch gun would be best?"

First
Many thanks for your work with Scouts. I always look back fondly on my scouting days, even the soggy pup tents. LOL

Second
Realize you can't be everywhere all the time, so be proactive and "Army Strong." Realize you have an 'army' of Scouts traveling with you. Help develop their knowledge, confidence and self-reliance and involve them. 'Issue' commands to BE NOISEY, carry BEAR SPRAY and SHARPENED HIKING STAFFS. These would be LEGAL FOR EVERYONE TO DO and pretty effective against threats in every state, national Park, state park,...

Re firearms, I always have to wonder how accurate I would be, even with a rifle, on a BOBBING head charging at myself or someone else at 30MPH - as I recall, bears and alligators (on land) are VERY FAST OVER SHORT DISTANCES

That said, and given my 'threat assessment':
Order of INCREASING DANGER - snakes, alligator, bear
Order of INCREAING PROBABILITY: bear, alligator, snakes

MINIMUM
Lightweight, small, and (pocket) 'concealable', Bond Derringer (they're SS for Florida humidity!), say the Cowboy Defender (which I have) ,
at about 19 ozs chambered (preferably) with a 45LC and a 45LC 'shotshell' or the 45LC and .410 barrel option.

http://www.bondarms.com/ifirearms.php

Re a REVOLVER
Stainlees steel and 45LC and 45LC 'shotshells'

Again, many thanks for your work and have some great and safe trips!

 

[BearBio]

As a former scout, hiker, and currently a wildlife bio (who has also been charged) a few thoughts:
1) Forget the .357. It'll stop most any black bear BUT will you be able to shoot it accurately enough under that kind of pressure?
2) As with any other threat, situational awareness will keep you out of more jams than a gun will ever solve.
3) I carry pepper spray. I keep a 45 Colt (see my other posts) in camp with full-house loads BUT I camp where grizzlies are a possibility and hunt where they are a reality.
4) All of the charges described here (and the one I was involved in, along with at least two threat displays[i.e. jaw popping, ground slapping, etc]) have been bluffs. Standing, shouting, making yourself appear larger all will work with bluff charges. Especially if performed by 20 screaming hellions in tan uniforms!

Lastly, think about the the legal ramifications. You WILL be investigated for numerous possible offenses including poaching, poaching in a National Park (if it occurs on NPS lands), possible Endangered Species violations (if it is a Louisiana black bear, or a Florida cougar). And the death threats from the "nutcases" like PETA. Maybe lawsuits from parents. If you carry in a Nat Park, you must be in compliance with the State laws to be legal. Just a few points to think about. Your decision ==just think it through!

 

[Ruger_rules]

Hi All (and Moderator!),

Please allow me to try to interject a little humor in the otherwise very serious topic of black bear bluff/charge defenses.

As "BearBio" aptly put it:

"All of the [bear] charges described here (and the one I was involved in, along with at least two threat displays[i.e. jaw popping, ground slapping, etc]) have been bluffs. Standing, shouting, making yourself appear larger all will work with bluff charges. Especially if performed by 20 screaming hellions in tan uniforms!"

What really caught me was his "Especially if performed by 20 screaming hellions in tan uniforms."

Maybe something like this (Hawaiian/Maori-type wardance video)???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pCZ5Rkh ... re=related

Man, oh man, I think if I was a bear and saw and heard something like the above uniformed "screaming hellions" arrayed in front of me, I would 'turn tail', 'head for the hills' and find the deepest, darkest cave to hibernate in, never to come except for once a year to munch on some flowers and berries!

And no "Shots fired!"

LOL

 

[Terry T]

How about a S&W 310 in 10mm / 40S&W. 10mm approches 41 mag. in power and the full moon clips offer quick reloads. Light and compact enough to carry 'undercover'. Night sights for the 'things that go bump in the night'.

No one mentioned the feral dog packs in the South East. They can be quite deadly, too.

I do think the most dangerous beast in the forest walks on two legs. And they seem to like young boys as much as young girls these days. :shock:

Just my $0.02 worth,
Terry T

 

[Pal Val]

I had an encounter with a black bear when I was a scoutmaster. Luckily, the scouts threw all the fish we had at the bear and it left. After that, I started taking a .44 mag carbine to the outings in the woods. One of the mothers called the district and told them I was taking a gun to troop activities. I was asked to either leave the gun home, or resign.

I resigned.

Four years later, a kid got mauled by a bear there.

 

[Kanook]

I spend a lot of time in the woods and swamps in both SWFL and the mountins in NEGA. I carry my Security Six with a 2 3/4 barrel. I feed it 180 hard cast.

 

[Old Judge Creek]

Hmm! This is interesting. 45 years ago I was shanghai-ed into scoutmastering a rural Alabama troop that needed a responsible adult and since I taught at the local high school...

... anyway, rural folks understand/understood the necessity for firearms. But that was "then".

I spent the first 35 years of my life running through the swamps and woods of the deep south and since my Dad was USMC, I learned to shoot about the same time I learned to ride a bicycle.

Anyway, my solution the the question posed here was a 4" Ruger 357 Blackhawk. It served me well.

Now, at age 67, I'm still out running the boondocks (in the western US) every opportunity I have and I'd like to think I've learned a thiong or two:

For sure, on a hunting trip, my 357 BH killed a 165 pound black bear. I classify that today and a damn-fool kid stunt. I was lucky and the bear wasn't.

The only alligator I ever saw killed was "about" 7 feet long and it took two slugs from a 30-30 at close range to stop it.

Today, I pack along two guns (sometimes three): a DA S&W 629 Trail Boss, or a Ruger either Black Hawk or Bisley Vaquero in either 45 Colt or 44 mag depending on my whim of the day along with either a Trapper rifle in the same caliber and/or a short barreled 12 ga shotgun.

But make no mistake: the caliber is either 45 Colt or 44 magnum. I reload my own ammo and generally keep these rounds at around 950fps or a little more.

And, were I in your shoes today, I'd either do just that or not put myself in a position of being responsible for the safety of those kids in a wilderness environment.

 

[Old Judge Creek]

...

No one mentioned the feral dog packs in the South East. They can be quite deadly, too...

Feral dog attacks can happen anywhere. I think I already posted here about my two encounters with the same feral dog pack.

But, I can assure you that if a pack of dogs were to attack a group of kids, there isn't a firearm made that's gonna allow a lone scoutmaster to keep the kids in his charge safe... ain't gonna happen.

 

[M'BOGO]

Since the scenerio is nasty teethy things and kids (and not ruling out rabid vermin), it must also be brought up that 20 hellions, and safe backstops. Maybe homeland security ought to just be mobilized? I'm not making light of this post and the thoughtful advice, but this is just a bad situation, and the gator problem would be harder to solve than the bear problem. My vote would go to the .44 mag leaver gun for best handling. Real world, I suppose the nod would go to a revolver. If you go with a .357, educate yourself on ammo, and make a very informed decision. I would lean more twords a forty something, and if you lay your hands on a lightweight .44 mag, choose your ammo wisely, with full house ammo, well, I don't want to play. I would opt for a 4" redhawk, and live with the weight, or a blackhawk/vaquero of some kind.

 

[tomiswho]

John, it's on topic and I don't mind relating the experience...

It was sometime in the 80's, summer, and I was an avid hiker. 15 mtn. miles was nothing. One day 2 friends and I decided to make the ultimate one day hike in the Great Smokey Mountains National Park. We left one car in Cade's Cove and drove up to Clingman's Dome in the other. How hard could it be? :roll:

Incredible beauty, deer in red coats, and wild bore that can tear up a mtn. in no time flat; not to mention what they could do to us. At the 1/2 way point, 13 miles or so, we realized we'd made a mistake and this should have been a 2 day hike. I thought it was going downhill from Clingman's Dome at 6650' to the valley at Cade's Cove. Nope! It was down then up then down then up; over and over again.

The last 6 miles or so was downhill and believe me when I tell you this, it's harder on you than going uphill. Well, we got near Cade's Cove to a place called Spence Field. It was beautiful with some people who came up from Cade's Cove to picnic or whatever. The trail was really narrow.

Lewis was in front, no, not the Lewis from the movie Deliverance, and Cholo was toilet paper--wiping up the rear. Suddenly Lewis motioned to get back right now!!! We didn't question him, we booked it. Right then on the trail out of the woods came a mama black bear with 3 cubs. We ran back to the field and she charged. There was no place to go :shock: We backed off and I actually took a couple of pics. She charged again and we again retreated. All this time her cubs were rolling all over each other having the time of their lives.

Nothing happened, but I remember thinking I wished I had my SBH just in case. With the way it went down there was no way I would have taken a shot unless...

Love the right to carry in Nat'l Parks now with as much time as I spend in them. What I worry about is the people who think their lives are in danger with bears and they really aren't...

Yes, black bear attacks are really rare and I wouldn't give them a 2nd thought. I would like to have some insurance though, and it wouldn't be a .357.

I've spent some time at Spence Field. Stayed in the chain link "bear shelter" - had some problems with mice. So take mouse traps. I usually carry my .454 in Alaska, but I'd feel pretty good with my GP-100 or my .45 Blackhawk in the Smokies. Back when I hiked in the Smokies some years ago(I had a business in Sevierville) I didn't carry a gun in the park, but camping outside I carried my Ruger Standard .22

Not great, and I'm sure there are worse ways to go, but how many grandkids can brag to their friends at school, "My granddad was eaten by a bear!"

 

[Beachbum]

I very much appreciate the replies. I had not looked into the legalities of carrying in the Smokies but was intending to before going. I was hoping allowing concealed carry in National Parks would encompass the Smoky Mts. but I still have to research that. I also have to research whether my FL CCW permit is honored in GA, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

I am lucky being from the west coast of Florida. We have a troop of like-minded folks. I have no fear of carrying anywhere in the state of Florida where we normally camp. I know the laws here and carry when legal. Gators are not a real problem unless we are near the water and they seem to be much less attracted to humans than bears. Bears like our food, gators do not. Unless they have been fed by humans, gators leave us alone.

That leaves me to consider the moral and legal implications of carrying in the Smokies. Would I rather be responsible for killing a predator with an illegally carried firearm or be responsible for the mauling or death of a boy because I failed to protect him? Maybe until guns are allowed in parks, we shouldn't take these trips. I honestly don't know the answer to thes questions but I will decide before the trip.

Thanks to those who appreciate my volunteering with the Scouts. I am only an Assistant Scoutmaster. Our Scoutmaster is also a CCW permit holder and carries in the Smokies when he goes. After camping and backpacking, shooting is one of out troop's biggest activities. Anyone who doesn't support ALL of the Bill Of Rights has long ago quit the troop.

Any other thoughts on the subject are welcome. I am now considering a 44 mag. as a result of your posts, I like the Taurus 44 mag. and had already checked out their web site. No gun will be counted out until I hold it in my hand. Thanks all!

 

[Three44s]

For years, I believed what I read in the gun magazines ........

....... that the .357 was the top practical round and "only the most grizzled" of handgunners could handle the .44 mag.

And that is RUBBISH! Of all the things I wish I could do over ...... I wish I had come to enjoy them sooner!

And the key is this:

Handload ...... for you would find as I did that the .44 mag is one of the most versatile and ameneable rounds out there.

As for the guns ...... my stable includes two .41 mags .... a Smith and a Dan Wesson

......... and three .44s ........ two Ruger DA's and a Smith Mountain gun .....

I have fired the Smith 329 PD ..... and find it quite useful ...... it is heavier to the side of LOTS of packing and less shooting ...... as is said of the Mountain Gun .....

........ and it does sting pretty good ........ I suscpect that a wound created by a bear would hurt infinitely more however .......

But as I have found VERY capable accurate loads for my Mountain gun the same could be said for the Scandium .44 by S&W ...... probably even without modification.

Would I buy a Taurus ......... yes, I prefer S&W and Ruger ......

I really liked the Taurus Titanium Tracker in .41 mag ..... four inch barrel, adjustable sights and .......... TWENTY FOUR ounces and a five shot cylinder. I had it borrowed and worked it for part of a summer to develop loads for it's owner. The trigger was so so when it arrived but as it went home ...... it had improved markedly.

Anyway you go ...... you'll be better served than with a sharp stick which is where you are now.

Three 44s

 

[mattsbox99]

Three44s, your posts are insanely hard to read.

I recommend a 4" GP100 or 4" Security Six, the .357 Mag is my woods gun. I know you won't hear this from all the "experts" in this thread, but bears are not fond of humans and will try their hardest to get away from you. I hike and hunt in prime grizzly country, and I've never had an issue.

 

[Three44s]

I remember a gun writer/Alaskan guide that wrote an entire article on how the .357 was better bear medicine than a bigger cartridge.

At the end he admitted he had given his model 65 Smith (.357) to his daughter when she took up guiding.


He now packs a Smith & Wesson Mountain Gun chambered in .44 magnum!




Three 44s

 

[Calthrop]

Feral dogs are a real problem here too. The police cannot kill feral pit bulls with 9x19's they wait for a supervisor with a .45 or a rifle. Meanwhile the dog is bitting the heck out of them.

Caring a revolver is not enough ammo. You need to go to a hi cap auto like .45. Yet you are in deep kinchi if the dogs are amongst the kids. Calthrop

 

[AzRebel]

Feral dogs are a real problem here too. The police cannot kill feral pit bulls with 9x19's they wait for a supervisor with a .45 or a rifle. Meanwhile the dog is bitting the heck out of them.

Caring a revolver is not enough ammo. You need to go to a hi cap auto like .45. Yet you are in deep kinchi if the dogs are amongst the kids. Calthrop

From my limited experience with Tucson PD, I'm surprised that the dogs don't die of old age before an LEO even shows up.

It took them nearly 5 hours to show up for a home break-in, and all the officer did was do an incident report for the insureance.

I'd think they'd be somewhat slower to show up as volunteers for pit bull chewy duty.



Daryl

 

[Kanook]

I very much appreciate the replies. I had not looked into the legalities of carrying in the Smokies but was intending to before going. I was hoping allowing concealed carry in National Parks would encompass the Smoky Mts. but I still have to research that. I also have to research whether my FL CCW permit is honored in GA, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

Go to www.gacarry.org and it will answer all your questions. and yes GA does honor a FL permit but be carefull, they have a ton of restrictions. You kinda need a lawyer to understand it.

 

[Tommy Kelly]

My suggestion would be a 454 alaskan. It's short compact and easy to handle. You can use 45 colts as a light load to farmiliarize yourself to the gun then work up to the heavier loads in the 454 for carry. It would be a good packing pistol with top shelf power and handling built in to a smaller package. That way you have all the power you should need in a good reliable gun. I would trust my life to it to be enough.