Bisley Vaquero Trigger Creep

[ZombieHunter]

I got some wolffe springs put into my bisley 357 vaquero but now there is a creep in the trigger but in my 45 colt old vaquero there is no creep with the same springs in it. Is there anyway to fix this? Will the creep hurt the gun later on?

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

The stronger factory springs hid the creep. The softer springs lightened the trigger pull so now the creep can be felt. Your old Vaquero didn't have creep.
Creep is a sign of roughness on the surface of the trigger sear, the hammer notch, or both. The higher tension factory springs will eventually help wear off the roughness or 'break in' the parts to reduce or eliminate the creep. The parts' roughness can be carefully polished out, the professional cure. Or the gun can be cycled and dry fired many times with the lower tension springs with slight thumb pressure on the hammer while you watch John Wayne movie videos, to 'break in' the parts.

Creep will never hurt the gun, only your accuracy if you don't like it.

 

[Precision32]

Technically, creep is the movement of the mating sear surfaces against the hammer notch surfaces. There is felt creep vs unfelt creep. It takes a skilled hand to adjust the angles and engagement between the two to get a trigger job without felt creep. I have a pile of ruined parts in a little box, created in acquiring those skills needed to produce a SAFE trigger with a reduced pull weight and no felt creep. The angles need to remain "positive" so the trigger does not "push off".

A good, safe, trigger job involves more than just lighter springs.

 

[ZombieHunter]

The only reason I put the lighter springs in it was so I could do cowboy actions shooting. What people say polishing the parts what exactly are you using to polish the parts? I am new to working on my own guns.

 

[contender]

Welcome to the Forum!
So, your plans are to use the gun for SASS. If creep is the only issue,,, may I suggest this.
Instead of trying to work on the action & possibly making the gun unsafe, or ruining good parts,,, do what a few top SASS shooters have done. First, clean the gun, then put a good mess of toothpaste in the action & work the action a lot by dry-firing. SASS top shooter "Lead Dispenser" did this to his guns & won a lot,,,!
Basically, the toothpaste is a mild abrasive & with it in the action it'll smooth out rough spots with use. Once you do this, clean it all out & check things. Re-apply as needed.

 

[rugerguy]

we "graduated" from toothpaste , to 'Lubriplate' the stuff they use on new camshafts in cars,,,slather the innards of your gun( the lockwork, mainly the hammer and trigger), with that stuff and as 'hondo' says work the hell out of the action while watching TV and in no time you will have built in "years of use" ( wear) as you are 'mating' the parts to each other, those in the gun, NOT to some "jig or fixture"...... :roll:
yes, time and use does the same, just takes longer, BUT you will get to be a pretty shot in that much time and use 8) :wink:

 

[Precision32]

What people say polishing the parts what exactly are you using to polish the parts? I am new to working on my own guns.

I use 1800 grit ceramic stones to "polish" the mating parts of the sear and hammer. I know of master gunsmiths who use 600 grit India stones to do there trigger jobs. Still others use hard Arkansas stones at 800 grit.

When I first started smithing I bought a jig. It sets in its box most of the time now and I freehand trigger jobs. You have to understand the concept of "positive", "neutral", and "negative" angles to maintain a safe trigger job that does not push off. Cut the angles wrong and your trigger job can be unsafe and liability issues could come into play if an accident takes place.

 

[Carry_Up]

I would like to offer a couple of comments since the subject came up. There is no place to look up trigger terms. So, there is little agreement about what term actually means what. That is a problem because the skill of evaluating trigger engagements is important. Without knowledge and experience, an engagement can easily be ruined or made unsafe with a few strokes of a file or stone. (Refer to a sticky above showing a drawing of where to file on a hammer!!!) We will all agree of course that everyone has his own personal preferences.

First things first. Let's start with the word creep. Creep is ALWAYS associated with some unwanted type of trigger movement. Because of gun magazine hype, many people expect to feel nothing during a trigger pull. They apply some pressure and the gun fires with no perceptible movement of the trigger. If any movement is felt during the trigger pull, people become irrational and call it creep and will do anything to get rid of it. A better description is needed.

Nobody likes a rough, gritty, jerky, usually heavy and always unpredictable trigger pull. That kind of movement is CREEP. If the movement of the sear against the hammer is smooth and predictable, that is NOT creep. This type of trigger pull is completely valid and is preferred by many shooters. Make up your own term for it, since it isn't in the dictionary. You might call it a rolling trigger or a feedback trigger or some other term, but it is NOT a creepy trigger.

Technically, creep is the movement of the mating sear surfaces against the hammer notch surfaces.

Nope, creep is the unpredictable, gritty and jerky movement described above. There HAS to be movement of the sear against the hammer, otherwise the gun could not be cocked.

There is felt creep vs unfelt creep.

If you can't feel something, then how do you know it is there? Give me a break! Trigger pull is all about what you feel.

A good, safe, trigger job involves more than just lighter springs.

Correct. There are examples of the factory using massive hammer spring weights which go far beyond reliable ignition....etc. But, the springs aren't just a convenient way to adjust your trigger pull. I would say that spring adjustment would the last step in the process, not the first.

I recommend investing in a powerful loupe or used lab microscope so you can actually see your engagement surfaces and angles. Some people can do it blindfolded, but that isn't the best way to start. At least know what you have before you start filing and stoning.

One more definition: what is a safe trigger? A safe engagement is one that will not go off unless you actually pull the trigger (regardless of weight). An unsafe engagement is one that will go off if it is bumped, or for no reason at all. It may feel velvety smooth, but it is not safe. Safety is always primary. Don't press your luck!!

CU

 

[Precision32]

If you can't feel something, then how do you know it is there? Give me a break! Trigger pull is all about what you feel.

So if you can't feel the sear move over the hammer notch, that means the sear does not move over the hammer notch? Please, give ME a break.

So what do you call the movement of the sear across the hammer notch if you can't feel it?