Anyone having problems with CCI primers?

[Peacemaker]

Loaded up a bunch of .38 specials (box of 50) with CCI small pistol primers. Went to the range. Had 3 misfires out the box of 50. All showed primer strikes but no "boom". Never had that happen before. 3 out of 50 is not a good thing. Does storing the primers in my garage over the winter have any negative effects?

 

[7mmb]

I've never had a problem with CCI primers. They were all I used until things started drying up and I had to use Remingtons. The last time I went shooting I had my first failure to fire. It was a 9mm using a Rem 1 1/2. While storing primers in your garage over the winter isn't best practices it shouldn't cause a failure to fire. How old were the primers? How did you clean the cases? I had a friend that had a bunch of 223 reloads fail. We figured out that he didn't get the insides of the cases dry after he wet cleaned them. Not seating the primers fully so that the feet of the anvil are bottomed out on the primer pocket can cause a misfire too. A light mainspring in your gun might be the cause too. Have you used CCI primers in this gun before? CCI primers supposedly have the hardest cups.

 

[mikld]

I have been using CCI primers for prolly 25 years and never found a bad one. Some (a very few) needed two hits to fire, because I had not seated them quite enough. Since I discovered the fault was mine I have had zero problems with CCI primers.

Retry the "bad" round and see if the second strike will fire the round. 90% of the time they will, indicating mis-seated primers...

 

[Peacemaker]

Thanks for the replies and the tips. I'll give it a try.

 

[6gun]

Have never had a misfire with anthing I have loaded and use CCI's often, I would also pull the bullet and see if someone forgot to load the charge.

 

[tsubaki]

I had the same thing happen with me, showing a primer strike but no boom.
Come to find out my problem was I had cleaned the gun prior and lubed with a much heavier oil.
With the below freezing temperatures at the time of shooting, the firing pin would slightly dent several primers. By midday when the sun warmed everything up the same cartridges shot just fine.
Next day, same conditions after cleaning again and using a lighter oil, had no problems.

 

[DGW1949]

Loaded up a bunch of .38 specials (box of 50) with CCI small pistol primers. Went to the range. Had 3 misfires out the box of 50. All showed primer strikes but no "boom". Never had that happen before. 3 out of 50 is not a good thing. Does storing the primers in my garage over the winter have any negative effects?

To answer your two questions....
(1). Yes, I have. The defects I had were about the same percentage as you had. In my case, I examined the unused primers that I had left and observed that the priming disk(s) inside each one were not uniform in color. Most were yellow, some were yellowish-brown, and a couple were totally brown. Like yours, mine were small pistol also. I don't know what color the priming disk is supposed to be in a CCI primer these days though...I haven't used any more of them since...and that was some 35 years ago.
(2). Storing primers in cold weather shouldn't bother them at all. If it did, none of the winter wars that's been fought over the years would have been fought. Leastways, not with firearms.

That's all I know about that.

DGW

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Don't recall ever seeing any failures to fire w/ CCI primers in handguns that were left at factory spec. Putting in lighter springs has been associated w/ some failures: the CCI cup tends to be a bit harder than most, and some smiths have recommended Federals (softest cup of the major mfrs) for modified guns (my old gunsmith boss among them.)

If you're gun's factory stock, neither damaged nor overly worn, properly cleaned and lubed, I'd look carefully at your loading practices for the "problems" others have already noted. Yes, it IS possible you got some "bad" ones, though I'd expect that more of current lots, where all the production is under stress to keep up w/ demand, than older ones. Still, it happens...

Rick C

 

[Rclark]

All I use is CCI primers, large and small. Magnum and non-magnum. Only recall one bad primer. It just would not snap after several 'retries'. This is after many years of reloading. I had some 'light' primer strikes that 'took' on the next time around. But that was a gun problem. Other than that... knock on wood, CCI has been trouble free for me and will continue to use them.

Does storing the primers in my garage over the winter have any negative effects?

Not sure, as I store all mine in the dry basement of my home. Might say it is climate controlled .

 

[diablos30]

only problem i'm having is finding any

 

[Bayouhunter]

My sentiments
I cannot find any.
Who bought them all?

 

[6gun]

Bought some just last week

 

[mikld]

My sentiments
I cannot find any.
Who bought them all?

I did. I have roughly 11k that I bought over the last 4 years... :shock:

I got them pre-panic, just incase...

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

Just had a 200 rd session last night where 2 CCI 550's did not fire after 5 attempts each. I cleaned my striker channel and will try these again. If they don't fire then, I will pull them down and see what I can see.

 

[Precision32]

Check out this article.

http://www.stevespages.com/primermyths.html

 

[DGW1949]

Check out this article.

http://www.stevespages.com/primermyths.html

Interesting article.
Perhaps "sensitivity" would be a better word to use than "hardness". Still though, I'd like to know by what method CCI addresses the matter during development and manufacture, and as far as that goes, other companies as well.
Another term I'd like to see details on, is "NATO Spec" primers...sort of like CCI's #34, which they advertize as being "less sensitive".
Until shown otherwise, I'm still betting that such differences have at least something to do with the primer cup...increased thickness perhaps, which most of us would translate into "hardness".....which if true, would seem to bring the discussion full circle.

Or it could be that I'm just being hard-headed about it all.

DGW

 

[Rick Courtright]

Check out this article.

http://www.stevespages.com/primermyths.html

Hi,

Interesting article, and most of the points are easy enough to understand. One that's NOT addressed, though, comes from observation in our shop "back when." Our guys worked on everything, but since the shop was part of our trap & skeet complex, target shotguns were the bread and butter items.

Perazzi shotguns were (still are) very popular, and some folks had more than a usual amount of trouble w/ damaged/worn firing pins on the lower barrel of their O/Us. The lower pins were already short by design, and (at least at the time) somewhat softer than many other brands, so it didn't take much to render them unreliable. My boss replaced 'em by the handful, and always asked about the ammo the shooter was using. "Factory or reload?" almost always came back "Reload" and "What brand of primer are you using?" almost always came back "CCI."

He recommended Federals, and very seldom replaced another firing pin for a shooter who made the switch.

So, I can understand the "sensitivity" issue being confused w/ "hardness" but that doesn't 'splain mechanical damage...

Thoughts?

Rick C

 

[Precision32]

From discussions I have had with Alliant engineers, the sensitivity is controlled by the space between the cup and anvil. The military still requires the less sensitive primer due to the floating firing pins on military rifles.

To be honest, I have never looked into shot shell primers. As to the firing pin issue, I can ask some questions of my gunsmith school to see if they know anything about what Rick relates. Come to think of it, I'm going to ask just to learn more.

 

[Rick Courtright]

To be honest, I have never looked into shot shell primers. As to the firing pin issue, I can ask some questions of my gunsmith school to see if they know anything about what Rick relates. Come to think of it, I'm going to ask just to learn more.

Hi,

For what it's worth, this observation/experience comes mainly from Perazzi guns made before about 1990. My boss sold everything then, and I moved on... lost contact w/ most of the trapshooting community, too.

So you may get blank looks if you ask "new" guys--might need to find some greybeards to talk to. Please let us know what you learn, ok?

Rick C

 

[WESHOOT2]

I used CCI primers in virtually all my commercial ammo.
Zero failures ever......


That said, in 1976 I bought CCI primers (in 100 lots!) and found one without its anvil.

 

[GP100]

Check out this article.

http://www.stevespages.com/primermyths.html

Thanks for the link. Excellent reading to be sure. Learn something new every day.

 

[Precision32]

Got some feed back from my guru, Ken Brook with AGI. He said the Perazzi guns are quite good, as in pricey. As to wear of the lower pin vs the upper pin, he had no personal knowledge. He did say that firing pins do wear.

He had some of the same ideas about primer cup "hardness." He relates that using the same gun he gets differing firing pin indentations depending on the primer used. He reads this as a "harder" or "softer" cup.

So the question is still unanswered.

I have CCI, regular and mil spec, and Winchester primers. I'll open a couple and see if they mic any different between the two. :?

 

[Rick Courtright]

Got some feed back from my guru, Ken Brook with AGI. He said the Perazzi guns are quite good, as in pricey. As to wear of the lower pin vs the upper pin, he had no personal knowledge. He did say that firing pins do wear.

Hi,

Thanks for asking your friend!

Here's my take on Perazzi: from a shooter's standpoint, it's really hard to find another gun that just "feels better" whether it's straight out of the box, or you've had some custom fitting done. But at least for a while, they were a gunsmith's guarantee of making the mortgage each month w/o breaking a sweat.

Their problems were related more to metallurgy than design, though the early leaf spring trigger ass'y seemed to be problematic in both areas. At least up until about 1990, when I started losing track, it wasn't a bad idea for a competitive shooter to carry an extra hammer, a couple of leaf springs and a spare firing pin or two in the kit. In an emergency, a good "kitchen table gunsmith" could usually replace all of them if a real gunsmith wasn't available.

I kinda attributed the problem to the idea the Italians didn't know how to make metal. (This from automotive experience long before I knew what a Perazzi was!) My boss--who might not have been a real magician w/ a torch, though we thought he was!--was purty darned good at welding up broken hammers, then hard facing and heat treating them so they'd last several times longer than the factory units. Dunno if he did any extra heat treating on the firing pins he replaced to harden them up some. Nor do I know if anyone ever came up w/ a fix for the leaf springs.

Many (if not most or all?) of the later models went to coil spring trigger assemblies, which REALLY improved their longevity and reliability. For example, Olympic medalist Kim Rhode's a local gal here in SoCal. I've never met her, but a hunting companion used to shoot practice w/ her, and said that "500 rounds a day, every day she's not competing" she's reputed to shoot in practice is no rumor! I heard her say in an interview once she's got close to a half million rounds thru one of her coil springed Perazzis now: it gets an annual "rebuild" by Perazzi (guessing roughly every 100k rounds?), but as far as I know, she's not suffered any field failures w/ it. So they're getting better w/ age and experience (the company's only about 40 years old, ya know?) Gotta get something for the fancy price tag, eh?

Rick C

 

[5of7]

I used CCI primers in virtually all my commercial ammo.
Zero failures ever......


That said, in 1976 I bought CCI primers (in 100 lots!) and found one without its anvil.

I have been handloading ammunition for 60 years and over that time have loaded no less than 300,000 rounds of handgun, rifle and shotgun ammunition....probably closer to 600,000 rounds, but I can only estimate.

Anyway, I have used a lot of CCI primers in the handguns and rifles and over that time, I had exactly 1 failure to fire that was the fault of the primer. In that case, I disassembled the round, a 357 Mg. cartridge and found the very same thing as above....a missing anvil.

Over the years I have found quite a list of aberrations in ammo and in components. Percentage wise, the number is low, but over time, it adds up.

When I handload my concealed carry ammo, I carefully check each case for length, and see that it actually has a flash hole, check each primer for the presence of an anvil, and then assemble the tested and chronographed load and finally run them through the gun to be sure they chamber and feed right. 8)

Check out this article.

http://www.stevespages.com/primermyths.html

I read the article and if I understand it correctly, the author is saying that there are no differences in primers regarding their hardness. I disagree with that.

There are differences in the cup thickness that are necessary to accommodate differences in pressure (whether for handgun or rifle) and for differences in the firing system (handgun or rifle).

Now I am not prepared to argue one way or the other as to the actual hardness of the cup material on the Rockwell (or other) scale(s), not having actually checked that out, but there is certainly a difference in the power required to spark them off. 8)

 

[The Blackhawk Kid]

I have had trouble with CCI primers and had trouble with them ona hunting trip to Colorado. No CCI's for me. A friend had a feed problem on his Dillon(don't know which one he has), and he switched to Winchester primers and problem solved. BHK