Anyone ever play with the .357 Maximum anymore?

[David LaPell]

I knew a guy who once shot a Thompson center Contender pistol in .357 Maximum and I had a chance to snag one once before, but I have yet to really get into this round, what kind of velocities does it put out versus the .357 Magnum, I know they are more, but is it enough to really delve into the round? For me it would be strictly hunting, there are no silhouette competitions here anymore which is what this guy used to do with his. I have heard with the Rugers they had issues with flame cutting more than normal.

 

[contender]

Oh, I happen to be one of many who still enjoys my 357 Maxis. O own a few T/C barrels, and a pair of the Rugers.
The flame cutting issue becomes a non-issue in a Ruger if you use the proper weight bullets, (170 grns & heavier,) and a proper slower burning powder. In the T/C Contender, it's a non-issue as well. As for using one hunting,, just ask sixshot about the mulies who hate his,,,!
As for velocities, since 99% of us who actually shoot ours,, it all depends upon what we are doing with it. Many enjoy the 1500 fps range,,,!

 

[Jim Puke]

The Maxi is one of the best handgun hunting rounds ever marketed.

Lots of folks around that still put a lot of rounds through them.

Flame cutting is really not an issue when the caliber is reloaded for, correctly.

 

[sdoyl123]

I enjoy shooting the 357 Max. I have the Blackhawks in both barrels as well as pistol and rifle barrels for my T/C Contender. I also lucked up on a hard to find Savage Model 24 with 357 Max over 20 ga over & under set up. Great hunting round for Whitetail and Mulies.

 

[Coogs]

Haven't hunted with any of mine , yet. Waitin' to punch something with my .480 Super Redhawk first, then I'll switch. As Ty said the flame cutting tends to be a non issue after 1-2000 rds. Forcing cone erosion was the biggest problem. That's from all those neophytes that were trying to push 125 gr. bullets at hyper velocities with extremely fast burning powders. I've settled on 4227 and 180 to 210 gr. bullets. Lee Martin had a nice recipe with a different powder, just can't remember it right now. David Bradshaw has a few pet loads and in my opinion knows more about the .357 Maximum round than anyone. Hope this helps, Coogs.

 

[David Bradshaw]

David LaPell.... the first game to fall to the .357 Maximum was a whitetail buck running through open hardwoods at 40 yards. An old Hornady .357 158 JHP (pre-XTP), seated over 24.8/Hercules 2400 exited the 10-1/2" barrel of prototype revolver (serial no. SRM-4) took the deer through the lungs. The deer showed no reaction to the shot other than to pile up in twenty yards. Velocity of the 158 JHP was 1900+ fps, as measured on an Oehler M33 chronograph.

While that round was nowhere near as hot as some we tried, and was very accurate at 100 yards, it represents rather low bullet weight for best efficiency and forcing cone longevity in the Maximum. Commercial jacketed 180 grain JHP from our better bulletsmiths, seated over 4227, 296, or H110, work fine on deer. Velocity in the 1500-1600 fps range is very effective. 1400-1450 fps represents moderate cruise control speed, and strikes a heavier blow than the 180 JHP at 1100 fps from a .357 magnum. I've taken whitetails with the Federal .357 mag 180 JHP at 1100 fps from a 6" python----lungshots----and the animals showed no impact reaction, asphyxiating on their own blood in undramatic fashion.

180 gas check bullets with broad meplat represent the preferred cast bullet for punch.

Remember to load the Maximum with small rifle primers to prevent the potential for primer blanking (extrusion into the firing pin hole). Remington cups are strongest, CCI second, with the Federal small rifle primer the weakest. All work with the Blackhawk Maximum, which uses the Ruger cap & ball mainspring, which is heavier than the standard Blackhawk/SBH mainspring. Both springs set off rifle primers. The cap & ball mainspring prevents blanking.

A 180 jacketed or cast bullet over 20/4227 represents a standard load for the .357 Maximum. You may start at 18 or 19 grains/4227. Some hot .357 Maximum loads are very accurate. Accuracy at higher pressure depends on the bullet holding up. Let accuracy at a minimum 50 yards be your guide. Often I cannot tell the difference between a mediocre load and a fine load at 25 yds. Do not take shots at game beyond a distance you have targeted and doped.

The closed breach 10" barrel boosts revolver velocity by, roughly, 150 fps.
David Bradshaw

 

[contender]

So David,, are you convinced yet about the 357 Maxi? (BTW; Coogs has been collecting them for years, and has done some excellent collector research into the Rugers. D. Bradshaw was in on the development of it with Ruger. So, you have two of the best "experts" chiming in here.)

 

[David Bradshaw]

Forum member wrote, asking if it is o.k. to shoot Remington .357 Maximum 158 JHP in his Maximum. Answer: Yes.

Says he "Also bought four boxes Remington marked "EXPERIMENTAL." Asks whether it's o.k. to shoot that, too. Answer: No. Not because it is unsafe, nor will four boxes will eat your forcing cone. Rather, you should save the experimental rounds, or sell to a collector.

Not all experimental ammo was loaded with rocks & dynamite. But plenty of the experimental was hot, and we shot the hell out of it. Without seeing the experimental you have, cannot tell whether it is fire & brimstone. Such ammo is now part of the archive, and deserves preservation. Along these lines you may prefer to hold onto your old factory .357 Maximum ammo----part of the legacy----and buy brass for handloading new. In the mean time, have no fear of shooting your Maximum with .357 mag, or even .38 Special.
David Bradshaw

 

[jmfc606]

Thank You Mr. Bradshaw. I will hold onto my loaded ammo. I do have some Maximum brass I got from Midway awhile back. I'll load up some of the 180 grain Hornady's and try and work up a good load for it. Thanks again for your response, it was very much appreciated. I'll probably keep one of the experimental boxes and sell the other few.

 

[contender]

Good follow-up David. I too have some of the "experimental" ammo for a Maxi. Nope, I do not plan on shooting it.

 

[bouncle]

Good follow-up David. I too have some of the "experimental" ammo for a Maxi. Nope, I do not plan on shooting it.

Not even as an experiment?

:lol:

 

[Paul D Heppner]

I'll second the 180 hp on top of 20/IMR4227 with a Rem small rifle primer. Every deer I have used it on has had a very short death run, all being hit right where I was looking. Mine is a 7 1/2 inch Blackhawk.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Paul D Heppner.... welcome aboard the Maximum express. Sounds like you hitched a while back. The .357 Maximum is as honest a "small bore" revolver cartridge as any to smoke meat. Remington introduced its .357 Maximum load with 158 JHP. This was the Remington load which standardized the cartridge at SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute, the association which sets dimensional and pressure specifications for major arms & ammunition players). Federal introduced its .357 Maximum load with 180 JHP.

Soon after, Dan Wesson Arms stretched the Model 44 .44 Remington Magnum into the Model 40 Super Mag, chambered for the .357 Maximum. Federal eventually dropped its .357 Maximum load because of spitting from the Dan Wesson. Given the high pressure and powder volume, Federal was amenable to the sideblast from the Ruger Blackhawk .357 Maximum, but could not come to terms with the sideblast from the Dan Wesson. This is not conjecture.

In terms of taking large game with the Maximum, Alaskan bush pilot and IHMSA silhouetter Tom McGuire may have set the pace, dropping a grizzly with his Dan Wesson stoked with the Speer .358 180 Flat Point rifle bullet. I would have to call Tom McGuire one of the old line steel shooters, basically comes armed with a substantial measure of grits, guts & marksmanship. I think no less a gentleman than Jack Huntington will back me up on this.
David Bradshaw

 

[SBH4628]

Very good info Mr. Bradshaw..Gonna keep mine a safe queen for now.
Factory fired only

 

[mike campbell]

In terms of taking large game with the Maximum, Alaskan bush pilot and IHMSA silhouetter Tom McGuire may have set the pace, dropping a grizzly with his Dan Wesson stoked with the Speer .358 180 Flat Point rifle bullet. David Bradshaw

David,

I used the 180 Speer rifle bullet with good success on the rams in my DW Supermag. I trimmed Federal nickel cases from 1.605" to 1.530" to crimp in the cannelure with optimum OAL.

I suppose Mr. McGuire would have done something similar?

At the same time, I was using the Hornady 180 singleshot pistol bullet in a Contender for whitetails. When I gave up IHMSA I sold the DW and bought a Ruger. I was so fond of the Hornady bullet for deer that I loaded it in shortened cases for the Ruger as I had done with the Speer. No doubt the Speer would be better for something that could bite.

Oddly enough, in the 25 years since I traded the DW with the 8" barrel and slotted shroud, I've never seen another.

 

[protoolman]

I have a sp-101 I bored one chamber straight through for that takes max brass. The brass comes out approximately 1/8 short of full length. I then roll crimp a shot load in that chamber. Not what you're asking but the brass works good for my use.

 

[Paul D Heppner]

Oddly enough, or maybe not so oddly, I got my Maximum from Mr Campbell. He's the best pistol shot I know. He and I have laid an awful lot of critters to rest with a lot of different tools.

 

[David Bradshaw]

SBH4628.... by your photo, your Maximum appears to have the 11-degree forcing cone, which I emphatically prefer over the alternate 5-degree cone. The 11-degree forcing cone is an industry standard. Given the width most manufacturers seem to want at the rear of the cone----to accommodate some chamber-to-bore misalignment----the 5-degree angle is driven too deep for my taste. I want the bullet shoulder seating into the leade rifling before the chamber turns loose of the heal. That is my simple explanation. Kept shallow, the 5-degree cone might work fine.

By your photo the cone of your Maximum looks short and concentric----very healthy. It does appear rough but easily corrected with patient skill. Caution: a person who does not understand the life-or-death role the forcing cone plays in accuracy should not be trusted to touch a forcing cone.

Have no fear of shooting your Maximum the way it is.
David Bradshaw

 

[David Bradshaw]

Mike Campbell.... congratulation on your hunts with the Maximum. Reckon isn't just me wants to hear the story of your shots, point-of-impact and autopsies of deer you've taken with the Hornady 180 Single Shot Pistol bullet in the .357 Maximum revolver. Powder and charge, too, while you're at it. While I loaded a number of rifle bullets in the revolvers, I never tried that particular Hornady. I trimmed brass early in development of the .357 Maximum, even as the case underwent growth cycles. Long bullets without crimping cannelures or inconveniently placed cannelures led me to crimp on the ogive, and to try profile crimping. With firm neck tension important to consistent ignition of slow powders, crimp became something of a formality. I never experienced crimp jumping with the .357 Maximum, and always watched for it.

Were I to load the Hornady .357 180 SSP bullet, I would seat deep as necessary and crimp, probably on the ogive. In fact, I believe Redding's Profile Crimp die asserts its validity here.

Please supply the forum with details of you Maximum experience.
Thank you,
David Bradshaw

 

[David Bradshaw]

prototoolman.... perhaps you will post photos of your SP-101 with a .357 Maximum shotshell. Reckon that would raise havoc with a rat running across your bookshelf. I'm for anything that kills rats, anything except poison. I can't abide the idea of poisoning a rat, followed by an ermine (weasel) or other fellow predator dining on the rat. Most poisons are a gift that keeps on giving. Mink, ermine, martens, and fisher cats, etc.----along with proper rat murdering dogs----inflict a special enmity on rats, an enmity I respect. I've used enough poison on termites to last a lifetime, and if I never touch the stuff again that will be soon enough.

Back to your pistol. Handled, years ago, a Colt Model 1917 .45 ACP, with bored through chambers, all six, to accept with half-moon clips .30-06 brass cut off just shy of the cylinder face and loaded with bird shot. The bore had been reamed clean of rifling. I was young at the time and unaware that a pistol without rifling is a no-no. Hell, the conversion may have been done in the wake of World War I, but when I saw it it was a no-no.

Your revolver sounds legit, so the question arises, how does that long shot column pattern at 12 feet?
David Bradshaw