any well experts out there?

[bobski]

we recently had a new furnace installed. the 40 year old one burnt its firebox out. water pressure was great with the old furnace.
but....as soon as the new one was installed, we lost 1/2 our line pressure. installers came back and seached and found nothing, claiming the furnace heat/water system is separate from the faucet systems.

but...they had to tie into the cold water supply line.

the big blue holding tank is working. no change.
line pressure at the well head is 45psi.
they are telling me my well is running dry.
well pump kicks on like it always did. no change.

any experience out there?

 

[eveled]

There is something clogged somewhere.

I had the same thing happened to me. The boiler was filling, and it stopped like someone shut off a valve. Traced it to a ball valve full of coarse sand. Even though there was a filter.

First obvious step is to check the strainers on the faucets.

Next step is to figure out were the flow changes. It was caused by them shutting (depressurization) and reopening (repressurizing) it. Sedement was disturbed and plugged something. But its not their fault its your sedement.

You have 45psi at the pump, but do you have good flow there? Connect a short hose and fill a bucket. Then do the same at different spigots figure out were the blockage is.

 

[blume357]

Not an expert... been 50+ years since I was on a well but if the well was running dry you would get on again off again pressure not something steady, I think. So, I'm with Eveled that something is either partially blocking it or there is air in the line somewhere.... air can get trapped in the line and I think that will cause low pressure.... seems like it would happen with our mountain house back in the day.. but this was when it was on a tank up the hill not a well.....

 

[bobski]

faucets strainers are clean. everything is equally low....bath, washer, kitchen, yard hoses.
i was thinking they over-soldered something or a piece of crud broke off where they tied in.

how does one bleed a water line, hot and cold.???

 

[eveled]

Is it bad right at the tank?

 

[Kevin]

Well, I’m not an expert, but pretty good though.

Oh! Come on… I know y’all thought it….

 

[Dan in MI]

Find where they tied in. Check pressure before. Then start at the closest spigot/ faucet and work your way away. Where you find the pressure drop determines next steps.

It does sound like something got knocked loose when the pressure was turned back on. Did they reduce pipe size at the T? Any gate valves in between? Lots to look at.

 

[eveled]

You need to figure out if it is a pressure problem or a flow problem first. Get a gauge that screws onto a spigot. HD has them in the sprinkler aisle.

 

[bobski]

it flows but barely now. full open is equal to maybe a slightly open on a normal home. it got us thru the winter, but i need to fix it right.
if i take a reading at the faucets, of course its going to be low. i can see it. all my pipes are soldered. how does one work away or back thru a line checking flow that cant be accessed?

 

[eveled]

Flow is different from pressure. You can have a 100 psi drip or a 10 psi deluge.

You have 45psi at the pump, but do you have good flow there? Connect a short hose and fill a bucket. Then do the same at different spigots figure out were the blockage is.

Did you do this? /\. Also 45psi seems low. I’m used to seeing 65 plus.

ihow does one work away or back thru a line checking flow that cant be accessed?

You have to cut pipes and add spigots. The blockage will be at a choke point. Most likely a valve. Look for the most likely place. Cut the pipe look in the valve add a tee and a spigot flush the pipe check for flow and pressure at the new spigot. Depending on what you find move forward or backwards and repeat the process.

 

[Dan in MI]

You are asking for remote diagnosis. That requires fresh information after some ideas are suggested. Otherwise we just keep guessing off the initial post.
I am not a plumbing expert, but have done a lot of plumbing work. I did spend a good portion of my career on remote diagnostics and troubleshooting usually with a language barrier, so I can get to the issue with your help. Possibly even prod others with good suggestions if we stay on track

What we know. Post installation low pressure at faucets.

Questions.
Any valves that could be partly closed?
Does the heat side have full pressure?
Is the tie in to the new system different than original?
Can you sweat solder copper?

 

[eveled]

Is there a whole house filter?

 

[bobski]

no to all q's.
yes i can sweat a pipe.

 

[bobski]

no whole house filter...

 

[Dan in MI]

Ok so it appears the issue is prior to the heater too.

Do you know where they shut off the water do the install?

There should be a drain spigot at the well tank T. Personally I would attach a hose and open that up and drain the system. BUT I have very little hot water heat experience. If you can isolate that from house (close any valves in and out) I would do that before draining the system.

If you decide to try and drain the system mention it here and I can give the procedure I use.

 

[nekvermont]

Just a guess. Take a good look at the valve/valves that were closed to shut off the water in order to make repairs. I've seen valves, especially old ones, have internal breakage that can restrict waterflow when they are opened back up. Good Luck.

 

[gunzo]

Still awaiting feedback if we helped fix your tractor.

One delima at a time.

 

[krw]

Chk and see if theres not a press regulator. When they start to get clogged up you will lose volumn (flow). But when off you press switch will let well pump cycle and you will show pressure

 

[sixmranch]

Check the air pressure on the pressure tank. That will affect pressure in the system. Should be a couple psi less than your high pressure switch.

 

[eveled]

Good idea to check the pressure in the tank.

FYI, you have to have the water pressure at 0, to get a true reading, and a valve open if you have to add air.

 

[Rich/WIS]

Not sure if I am reading this right, is the loss of pressure only in the hot side or in both. If only the hot side the issue is the new water heater, if both then it is the pressure tank or possibly the well pump. Had a well at my last house and usually the problem was the pressure switch, they get clogged and don't work like they should. Good news is they are easy to replace. It is also possible your tank is failing, the bladders can leak internally and not pressurize like they should regardless of the what the pressure levels show. Sediment in your water can also build up in the tank and reduce capacity but this usually shows up as more frequent cycling of the pump. If all else fails call your well guy.

 

[Jack Ryan]

it flows but barely now. full open is equal to maybe a slightly open on a normal home. it got us thru the winter, but i need to fix it right.
if i take a reading at the faucets, of course its going to be low. i can see it. all my pipes are soldered. how does one work away or back thru a line checking flow that cant be accessed?

Was the pressure at the well head 45psi before? For sure now. "I looked at it just before they did the install and again after. No change" That is the answer I'm looking for.

Because that is on the low side. Not TOO low but lower than most. Do you have a pressure control there at that point? Get a water pressure test gauge you can screw on the out side faucet. About $5 at Harbor Freight. Turn that valve wide open to ensure normal flow there. Turn it off there and put gauge on there and open the valve. What ever that pressure is there with all the water turned off in the house, that is the pressure every where.

Start down the line to the first faucet down stream of there. Go in and turn it on. Low flow there? Go out and look at the gauge. If it is still 45 the restriction is between those two and so on until you narrow it down.

 

[moparclan]

My well pressure is set at 40-60psi with a empty tank air pressure at 38psi, 2psi lower than the turn on pressure. Neglected checking my tank air pressure and ruined both tanks bladders. I check my air pressure with a drained system twice a year now. Expensive lesson learned for being lazy.
Normal air pressure setting is 2psi lower than the well switch on pressure. I have a pressure gauges on the well system and also one on my water heater to check pressure in the house without having to go out to the well house.
Any way to connect an air hose to an indoor faucet and blow everything back toward the well pressure tank, cleaning out a possible plug?
If your well is running dry as they say you will end up with lots of air in you system also.
Good Luck

"Most well tanks come set at 30/50. The cut-on pressure for the well pump is 30 psi, so the pressure of the tank should have a pressure of 28 psi. If your well tank is on a 40/60 pressure switch, your pressure setting should be 38 psi."

 

[bobski]

i have an oil furnace system that heats the water for both residential tap water and baseboards.
all was good pressure prior to the old rip out and install.
new furnace goes in, 1/2 the pressure.
they came back to look, found no clogs at the taps.
i checked their work afterwords. no clogs.
i am going to check the isolation valves. they were used to isolate the water lines to the old furnace rip out. they are very old. they may show open now with the new install and not be. i will try that next.

and, concerning the tractor topic. the tractor is 2000 miles on the other property i own and maintain. i only see it every 6 months and only have 3 weeks to do anything before returning 2000 miles to my aging mothers needs. youre welcome to come to my next ruger shoot in mo, and help me fix another one if youd like. stan/arky could use your company. he has been the only one here, willing to travel to one in the 10 years offered.
and for the record, see post 92 on that tractor topic.

 

[The Norseman]

Water softener? I had one that caused low
pressure to all faucets.

Had small screens and couldn’t fix, so just
removed it. All has been good now.

 

[cutlassguy1976]

I've done a lot work with boilers, plumbing etc.
I also am not a big believer in coincidents.
You don't need a gauge to tell you that you have low pressure. Obviously you have good pressure at the tank, you say 45psi. There is a restriction downstream causing both low flow and the resultant low pressure.
Still unsure due to answers if the problem is only in cold and/or hot. Still unsure if every faucet in the hosue is affected.
If its your hot water faucets that are low also, then its obviously something associated with both sides of the furnace.
You cannot isolate the hot side from the cold side unless there are check valves in the system. If there are that might be the issue.
I think someone suggested it but most bladder tank plumbing has a faucet, usually a boiler drain, at the base used for drainng the entire system. Hook a hose here and see what kind of pressure you have. If it is good, stop looking for your issues anywhere but in the pipes/valves downstream of that. Its not a tank, well drying up or anything else upstream.
Pictures of the valving that they messed with and descriptions of what pipe goes where might help.
Are these ball or gate valves?
I've replaced tons of old valves that broke when they were used for the first time in years, mostly gates.
You can't tell whether the pressure in the baseboards is OK unless you have guages somewhere in them so those might also be affected but since thet are not considered true users, thay aren't going to be affected by what you have going on.
Instead of cutting pipes apart and installing guages, cut out any valve that was turned and replace them.
Another way that might help.
Remove the divertor/screen from a faucet closest to the tank that has the issue. Turn a faucet on, rapidly excersize any upstream valve going from open to close. Sometimes if something broke loose and is sticking somewhere, this can break it free and flush it out. I always like to use like a laundry tub faucet if available. They have pretty high flow rates and usually no divertor to have to mess with.
Here's another thought.
Unless its very obvious, they may have been looking for the correct valve to turn the water to the furnace off and inadvertently turned off/ then back on a valve that has nothing to do with the furnace and now you aren't even looking for your issue at that valve as a possible suspect.
Good luck

 

[cutlassguy1976]

Forgot to add, the comment about the softner is a very valid thought. Most have a bypass system of 3 valves or a one piece bypass valve that you can use to remove the softner out of the equation.
Ahh.., but if it has the individual valves and they were messed with, don't write them off as not being the problem.
One last thought.
Not sure what state or municipality you are in, but is it even legal to have that water line going thru you furnace? Is this "hot water heater" a homemade system or is it a commercially made heat exchanger just for that purpose?

 

[pyth0n]

we recently had a new furnace installed. the 40 year old one burnt its firebox out. water pressure was great with the old furnace.
but....as soon as the new one was installed, we lost 1/2 our line pressure. installers came back and seached and found nothing, claiming the furnace heat/water system is separate from the faucet systems.

but...they had to tie into the cold water supply line.

the big blue holding tank is working. no change.
line pressure at the well head is 45psi.
they are telling me my well is running dry.
well pump kicks on like it always did. no change.

any experience out there?

Call the installers back out.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

As in any problem, "Locate, sectionalize, isolate".

1) Let's start with the clog theory, it it makes most sense- sorta. If the pressure at the well is fine at the well, chances are that when the water was turned of some sediment settled in somewhere. You haven't said where the filters for the well are installed, or even if you have any. If you have none than it will be more of a problem, finding where in the pipes the clog may be.
If you have filter(s) chances are it (they) have clogged. If your well gauge is between the well and the filter it will still show the pressure as fine. BTW- by "filters" I also include any screens on / the pipes or hoses, which usually clog first and more quickly.

2) HOWEVER you were said they "claiming the furnace heat/water system is separate from the faucet systems". Well, yes the pipes to the faucets are separated from the one to the boiler, but your house still only has ONE water input- your well. That water is then divided in the house and sent wherever, so your boiler is still getting some of that pressure. If the new boiler is bigger or has a larger input pipe it will draw more water away from the system WHILE FILLING.

This also means that if the system is drawing more water than the old one, it puts a bigger strain on your well pump, which may now not be powerful enough to handle the new load.

Hope any of this helps.

 

[Jeepnik]

I worked on various water systems for four decades. And I wouldn't try to diagnose your problem remotely on a bet. My suggestion is first contact the company that did your work. If they can't fix it contact a well servicing company. Still no joy hire a company that specializes in water systems. There are so very many possibilities. It could be a hunk of crud causing a restrictiion, or it could be an underground line rupture or, or, or. You don't mention your line size, material or length.