Another day-another 'incident'

[Mobuck]

As usual, there's no end to the odd and often unexpected things that can go wrong around here.
I was gone most of yesterday helping my Cousin inspect and get pictures/video of a farm tractor being listed for an internet auction. When I got home and was getting ready to do evening chores, I noticed the basement floor was wet so I asked Grouch Attack what had happened. She said she'd run the washer(but obviously had not gone back to put the clothes in the dryer).
This meant that the floor drain was frozen and the washer had pumped a full cycle of water on the floor. I'd been a bit concerned that the constant drip from the new furnace's condensate pan would become a problem but being sick for the entire month of December had caused me to forget/overlook a few things. There's supposed to be an insulated buffer over the end of the drain(which unfortunately exits on a north slope) but the goats found this a great spot to do what goats do and the buffer had been destroyed.
A quick check last evening verified that the end of the drain pipe was frozen. Temps are supposed to be above freezing today with a south breeze so I'll get all the debris moved and build a little fire to warm things up down there. Maybe even heat a piece of rebar to speed things up a little.
Two things are glaringly apparent: I HATE goats (even more if that's possible) and this new furnace to rapidly reaching goat level of dislike.

 

[contender]

Life's little problems,, when we just THINK we are reasonably ok,, seem to pop up & remind us there's always something that can go wrong.

I often tell people; "Owning a home means you'll always have something to fix." And the more structures, or machinery, or whatever,, the more things that will need fixing at some time or another.

It'll never end.

Long ago,, I started keeping a list of things that NEED doing,, and stuff that I want to do,, to try & reduce my issues as much as possible. The list is constantly getting adjusted. Some things get done & marked off,, and some things get added,, and some things get shuffled to the top when they suddenly become much more important. And some things,, that are a low priority,, often get pushed so far back that they never get done,, or things change & are no longer needed.

 

[blume357]

every 25K btus of gas you burn makes a gallon of water.... kind of hard to imagine.... most is vented out as steam but some condenses in the burner on these new super high efficiency furnaces and has to be run out somewhere....

just one of the few things I know that usually is useless..... well most of the time.... y'all will probably get more of this in the next 5 days as I'm locked down with the Chinese cooties.

 

[Dave P.]

every 25K btus of gas you burn makes a gallon of water.... kind of hard to imagine.... most is vented out as steam but some condenses in the burner on these new super high efficiency furnaces and has to be run out somewhere....

just one of the few things I know that usually is useless..... well most of the time.... y'all will probably get more of this in the next 5 days as I'm locked down with the Chinese cooties.

Seeing how you're bored, is that figure for propane or natural gas?
I had a ventless propane wall heater in an attached garage for one winter, the thing created so much condensation I think even the drywall started to rust. dug a natural gas line the next summer and went to a sealed unit heater drawing external combustion air ...should have done that to start with.
Pay attention to the covid, my cardiologist says that about 25 percent of his patients that caught it had additional heart issues because of it.

 

[Mobuck]

knew there would be 'some' condensation but hadn't expected the combination of constant 'piddle' and the exposed drain exit.
Oh well, most of the basement is dried out and I spent this morning taking care of the drain cover. Not perfect but no longer exposed to the cold, north wind. Got up a sweat in the process--58.5* on the south side of the house @ 11 AM.
I think I'll go set a brushpile on fire this afternoon. Don't want any moss to sprout under my feet.

 

[bobski]

relax, at least your 500.00 rare and hard to find obsolete furnace relay box didn't go out xmas eve and then the furnace firebox blew a hole in itself and died 3 weeks later when it was 5deg out.
old conn homes...what a great place to be huddled in!

 

[blume357]

Dave P. not sure if they are the same but probably close.... it's just basic Einstein physics..... you are mixing either natural or propane gas... both are just hydrogen and Carbon (propane has more carbon hooked to the hydrogen) mixed with oxygen when you combust it.... what you get besides the energy from the atoms is a different combination of the three elements.... Hydrogen, Cabon & Oxygen..... thus with perfect combustion you get Carbon Dioxide (CO2) and Water(H2O).

Oh, you did real good changing to a direct vent wall unit..... actually the unvented unit should have never been installed in the garage in the first place.

I have a friend that lives in a big house built in about 1840 (not exaggerating) it has had some renovations over the years... but a few months ago I discovered that the waste from the bathrooms runs out into the cow pasture behind the house..... this guy works in the medical world and is hyper about this covid thing and he is dumping raw sewage out behind his house?

 

[Jeepnik]

How about something like this.
https://www.amazon.com/Protection-Thermostat-Installation-Heavy-Duty-Self-Regulating/dp/B07HRWKQGS/ref=asc_df_B07HRWKQGS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241884620788&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10581495477352000076&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031078&hvtargid=pla-556771799442&psc=1

 

[gramps]

Blume, what do the cows do? UV rays will kill germs in human feces the same as cows, dogs etc.
gramps

 

[eveled]

Dont forget the condensation from the furnace is acidic and will rot out any metal it comes in contact with in short order. They make neutralizers for the line.

Also if the drain is prone to freezing covering it with cow manure might help.

 

[Mobuck]

Fortunately, this is PVC all the way. Hoping that shiny metal pan inside the furnace is stainless steel.
Drain water for all three of our house drains is 'over the hill'. In 1983 when I had to replace the original block basement walls, I was shall we say 'financially distressed' and had to go cheapest route. That meant we have a floor drain, a footing drain, and a sewer drain--all three of which exit on a north slope and exposed to the wind. All require a cover or wind buffer to prevent freezing at the end of the drain even though all have a 'drop'. Based on years of experience with livestock water tanks, an 8-12" drop works fine unless there's a constant piddle flow in sub-zero temps. Then, the piddle freezes from the bottom up creating a reverse icicle that ends up blocking and freezing the drain pipe.

 

[Dave P.]

Another idea that's sometimes done is a condensate pump. Basically a self contained sump pump, the advantage is it eliminates the trickle of
water to freeze, you just get one big shot every so often of relatively warm water.
Of course it's also one more thing to screw with, whereas gravity takes care of itself.

 

[blammer]

Is there a way to put some kind of heat somewhere near where it is freezing? Like electric heater tape? PVC won't conduct the heat well, but it might be enough to keep all but the coldest temps from causing grief. You could keep it unplugged except during winter.

Can you put some kind of enclosure around the insulated buffer that would dissuade the goats?

 

[blume357]

Blume, what do the cows do? UV rays will kill germs in human feces the same as cows, dogs etc.
gramps

I know that's the obvious answer that the cows poop out in the field all the time... kind of like when I was on a friends sail boat down in Tampa Bay and realized he had his head (that's the toilet for you non marine types) dumping directly overboard.... he explained to me that the fish poop in the ocean all the time so it must be okay.....

Here's the thing as I see it.... human waste is much more dangerous to humans than all that other stuff ..... correct me if I am wrong....

but if it was/is okay to dump it out in the back yard then why the heck do folks either have septic tanks with buried drain fields or massive urban waste treatment facilities.....?

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Depending upon where you live there may be "governmental officials" that will take a dim view of direct dumping of the effluent. :wink:

 

[blume357]

My friends plumber who actually replaced the old clay pipe run with PVC claimed it was grandfathered in.... another friend asked his plumber about it and he said if found out my 'pasture' friend could be looking at a $50,000 fine.

 

[Jeepnik]

Is there a way to put some kind of heat somewhere near where it is freezing? Like electric heater tape? PVC won't conduct the heat well, but it might be enough to keep all but the coldest temps from causing grief. You could keep it unplugged except during winter.

Can you put some kind of enclosure around the insulated buffer that would dissuade the goats?

Yep, see my earlier reply.

 

[powder smoke]

The key to keeping cellar drains from freezing is to keep them Free Flowing Once the water stops moving
its over! I have a basement drain probably similar to yours! No standing water is the key! Keeping the water
moving is the most important thing! Pitch and or obstructions will end with a wet basement.
I put a piece of hardware cloth on the end of mine. Keeps the snakes out!! ps

 

[blume357]

I know that's the idea behind a dripping facet... but with a long run to the outside it would seem that the very slow run of water in sub freezing temps could finally freeze the drain line closed. Not quite sure about how the OP's terminates... but my washer drain, which is putting gray water out in the yard actually terminates underground about a foot down with perforated pipe and it seems to work... nothing bubbles up.

 

[gramps]

Animals/fish generally don’t congregate and their feces gets scattered over a fairly large area. Humans stay in houses so waste is accumulated. As long as the people using the open field are healthy(no hepatitis, parasites etc), they should be fine until some governmental body finds out.
gramps

 

[eveled]

If you have it drain into a condensate pump, then pump it out. You wont have that constant slow drip. Naybe that would help with the freezing.