Addition to my gun hobbym Update 8/9

[contender]

I mentioned a while back that I was starting something new.
Using .22 RF brass, to make .223 jacketed bullets by the swaging process.

Well, yesterday, I was able to do my first test firing of bullets I made. But to make it a viable test,, I wanted to compare my bullets to known bullets. So,, here's my test procedure.
All brass was the same brand, trimmed to a uniform length.
All the bullets were 55 grn.
I used; Xtreme, Hornady, mine, and military loads.
The primers used as well as the powder,, the same.
I loaded up (10) rounds of each type, for a total of 30 rounds for testing.
I used military .223 ammo (55 grn) as my baseline for the test.
The gun used was a Ruger No 1 bull barrel. Leupold 2x7 scope.
The range was 100 yds.
It was very humid & went from overcast, to rain, to sun & steam, & overcast again. Not ideal conditions,, but no wind. (Just my sweaty eyes, and my astigmatism causing my scope alignment issue to be noticed a little.)

All (4) groups measured from the lowest (1-3/8") to the biggest (3-5/8")

The best group, was fired using Xtremes,, and of the 10 shots fired,, 9 were in the 1-3/8" group. One flyer (could have been my fault,) made it open to 2-3/8". I discounted the flyer.

The military loaded ammo, my baseline stuff measured 1-3/4" group for all 10 shots.

The Hornady bullet, was a surprise,, in that I had a scattered grouping of 3-5/8". Of those, 6 were in a 1-1/4" grouping,, but the other 4 were scattered around.

My homemade swaged bullets, I had a 9 shot group of 2-3/4". I had one misfire,, (bad primer,) that didn't allow the full 10 rounds. But,, of the 9 measured,, 8 of them were in a nice grouping of 2".

Now,, to be fair,, I wanted to really test my first bullets as critically as I could. I didn't try to weigh each one,, and I picked on ones where the jacket didn't look "perfect." In other words,, some of the worst looking ones.

My next round of testing will be done with a bit more precision. I'll weigh my bullets to make sure all of them are exactly the same. And I'm going to make my testing under better conditions. It wasn't easy yesterday, but I wanted an idea of what I could expect. I'm actually quite pleased with my results.

 

[g5m]

I used to have a Smith set for doing that. He was in Oregon and I bought it from the maker about 50 years ago. It's nice to be able to do it and the bullets should work just fine, as you have shown.
Congratulations!

 

[Snake45]

Great report, Contender, thanks for doing the work AND sharing it with us! Drive on!

 

[Kevin]

I bet if you sorted them by weight and got some that were closer in weight, you will be able to shrink that group size down quite a bit.

 

[jimbo1096]

Good report and interesting to follow your experience

 

[Mobuck]

This is interesting. Contender, I think we know each other well enough for me to ask: Is this accuracy level typical of the capability of the rifle?
I certainly would have expected better from Hornady.

 

[Hvymax]

How about some pics of your bullets and the process used?

 

[contender]

Thanks for the thoughts & comments.

I will be sorting them by weight, and looking for any that might not appear to be "the best" to do further testing. I purposely chose some of the rougher ones, and didn't weigh any to see how "bad" they'd perform against commercial stuff.

Yes,, MoBuck you can ask me anything!

This rifle has been in my bunch for several years. But I'll freely admit I bought it,, mounted a scope I had just sitting there, and never zeroed it. I actually zeroed it mostly with the military ball ammo I had for my baseline test. I've never tried to work up any loads for this gun,, so it's accuracy potential is not fully known. But I chose it because it was a single-shot, and a bull barrel. My other .223 stuff is either my T/C 14" bbl, or a semi-auto. The rifle could benefit from a scope with a bit more magnification & such,, but it is a GOOD Leupold,, but is a compact model with smaller lenses. Throw in the sweating I was doing,, and my astigmatism,, I knew my groups wouldn't be the "best" that I could possibly shoot.

But the performance of the Hornady bullets was a big surprise. I WILL be redoing some tests and making sure they are included.

I will be posting some more pictures later. I have to take a few first. I did take a few when I was testing,, but it shows a sample round of each one used. From left to right;
Military
Hornady
Xtreme
Mine

 

[Johnnu2]

This experiment looks like fun Contender.... Anxiously awaiting more testing and results...
J.

 

[RustyW]

I bought a bunch of.22 bullets from Bullshop years ago. His has a soft point and a boat tail and weigh 55-56gr. I shoot them in a 22-250 and they're 2 liter Pepsi bottle accurate at 200yds. BT sniper was selling dies but I never was that committed for 22's. I have a set of the 44 one step, to make 40 brass into 44's and it works great. Crazy thing is I'd rather shoot cast. Less work & I might be a tad lazy nowadays

 

[Hvymax]

You didn't mention the barrel length and twist rate of the #1. I have been interested in the whole swaging process for years and probably have 90% of what I need already.

 

[contender]

I don't know the twist rate,, and as for the barrel length,, I can't recall. It's a factory barrel, and I'll measure it later. Ruger model, No 1-V.

I have BT Sniper's dies for the 40 cal & 44 cal. Plus,, I have the second die for the nose profile to give it a XTP shape.

I'll post more when I have time to take pictures & work isn't interfering with my fun.

 

[contender]

Ok, an update;
I took a picture of the components used to make my .223 bullets. Here it is;

The picture shows the following from left to right;
A plain, fired .22 LR case before working it.
Next,, it shows a de-rimmed case.
After de-rimming,, you anneal these empty cases/jackets.
Above that is the lead core cut from a roll of lead wire. The cut piece is then placed into a core form die to uniform it.
After the core is formed,, it's placed inside the de-rimmed case/jacket. That is put through another "core seating" die, which compresses the lead and expands the brass case to it's .223 dimensions. (I didn't show the inside of the core seated jacket.)
Next,, is the point formed hollow point bullet. This was done in a separate die, after core seating.
At this point,, the bullet is formed and can be used.
I chose to add another step,, the cannalure (crimp ring,) to my bullets. That's the last step prior to loading them in cases.

 

[turd]

 

[Kevin]

Nice, thanks for the pictures. In the picture from post #8 your loaded round to the far right has a different shape tip than the others. Would this affect accuracy? Yours is more rounded, and the others have a sharper point.

But this is an awesome experiment, really interesting.

 

[Mobuck]

Ty, what would you estimate is the investment in time on a per bullet basis? I understand this is as much an 'adventure' as it is a cost saving process.

 

[blume357]

I can't imagine it has anything to do with 'cost savings'. For me I can't see how any reloading can be 'cost effective'. But I do see how it can be a very rewarding experience to do these kind of things. Do it just to prove you can. Figuring out how to jacket a bullet is way beyond my abilities.

I was discussing something like this with a friend a few days ago who is buying a metal lathe and how I read here and on another gun forum that a certain gun is no longer supported by the manufacturer and so getting a part for it if something breaks will be difficult if not impossible. My point to my friend was my father was a machinist for close on to 50 years.... anything that was made for a gun can be remade. It you throw aside the cost and time involved then nothing is impossible...

 

[contender]

Kevin, the bullet I'm making is a HP design. Without double checking,, I'm thinking the hole is .060. That is why it is a little more rounded looking. Of the other 3 bullets tested,, I just grabbed some I had handy. None were HP. When I've bought bullets in the past,, I usually didn't get many if any HP bullets. But it is one of the variables I'm going to test out. My bullet tip forming die is the HP design,, and if I can find a different die that gives me a soft point or spire point,, I plan on getting one. When I bought this set of dies,, the seller had a different point die as well, but he'd listed stuff separately, and someone else beat me to it by buying it before I saw the ad.

Mobuck,, I haven't even tried to figure out a time/per bullet number yet. I'm just learning it right now. But I can say,, it hasn't been as time consuming as I had expected. Here's an idea as to how it goes;
Step one, de-rimming. Once you set the die correctly in the press,, you put a little case lube on your fingers,, and put some on a .22 RF case then on the de-rim punch. I estimate it's about the same as de-priming a normal handgun case. Maybe a smidge longer due to the occasional addition of a small amount of lube needed on the fingers. The lube is not something you can spray & use like many case lubes. It's more of a grease type. But a little goes a long way. I put just a very small dab on my index finger, rub it between my thumb & index, and then as I pick up a case, I get a little lube on the case head,, and the de-rim punch. It actually goes pretty quickly once you get into a rythem.

Once the cases are de-rimmed, They need the lube removed, and they need annealing. Annealing allows the brass to form very easily. I'm now using a Lee 20 lb lead casting pot, dipper style, as my annealing furnace. I put a handfull of brass in the pot, turn up the heat, and lay a piece of steel over the top to help contain the heat. After about 10 minutes,, I take a metal spoon, and stir the brass, and let the heat distribute to all the brass easier. another 10 or more minutes, and out they come. A few hundred cases might take a total of 30 minutes. I place them in a ceramic bowl, to air cool. I swap the cases around bowls, so they cool quickly.

Then it's off to the tumble cleaner. Once they are annealed,, they look cruddy & scaly. The annealing also burns off the lube. But they need to be cleaned. Into my wet tumbler,, with SS pins & LemiShine. about 45 minutes there,, and then just like my brass,, they get two rinses,, to remove the pins & make sure no contaminates are left. Spread them out to dry on a towel. They dry fairly quickly. This process is no real difference than cleaning dirty brass from shooting. Time would be pretty much identical here.

Lead cores. This is where the time factor can be different. There are (2) ways to get lead cores. So far,, I've only used one. I bought a roll of lead wire, that measures .185 diameter. That size is almost the perfect size to fill the case. You can buy a lead wire cutter,, but I made my own. A roll of the wire I bought should yield about 1500 lead cores,, approximately. cutting the cores took some time,, but again, it went fairly quickly once I got the hang of my cutter & feeding the wire.
The second method to get cores is to cast them. I've managed to get a core mold,, that can cast 11 cores at once. Once I get a chance,, I plan on casting a bunch. Since I already cast bullets for shooting,, I consider the time spent making cores about the same as making my bullets. With the cores,, cutting and sore swaging, or casting won't be any different than casting inspecting, powder coating & sizing bullets. In fact,, I'm thinking it might be a little faster. (I do spend a fair amount of time when I'm casting my bullets with the weighing & inspecting etc.)
My first batch of cut cores needed a little core swaging to uniform them. I've been adjusting the core cutter, and I've managed to reduce the time necessary for all this. The next batch I've cut,, are much closer in weight than the first batch. And while they are a little mis-shaped at the cut end, they are going into the jackets fairly easily. Not quite as easily as core swaged ones, but easy enough to not need the core swage die time.

Once I get cores ready,, they get put into the jackets. I usually do this one at a time. I insert a core, and place it in the press, and run it through the core seating die. That die compresses the core into the jacket, uniforming everything, and expanding the brass case/jacket to the proper dimension. At this point,, the bullet has it's lead, and is now ready for the point forming. I liken the time here like I would doing neck expanding & primer seating of a case in reloading.

Once I have a batch of jacketed cores,, it's off to the point forming. The soft, annealed jackets are easily formed in the next die. A little lube is also used on the outside, similar to the de-rimming process. That die forms the shape of the bullet, and pushes lead upwards towards the HP opening. As for the time, I'd say similar to seating a bullet in a case.

From there I have a cannalure tool, that I have to feed them through one at a time. Once I get the rythem going, it's fairly quick.
My first batch,, (used in the testing above,,) the cannalure is a little lower than the others. I'm adjusting it for my next batch.

After the cannalure,, I put the newly formed bullets back in a dry walnut shell media tumble cleaning. That removes all the lube, and shines them back up.

Ready to load.

So,, time wise,, I don't think it's very different than my handloading process. But yes,, a little longer than the general casting weighing, sorting, powder coating, and sizing of my handgun bullets.

Blume,, "figuring out how to jacket a bullet" is NOT as mentally challenging as you'd think. Knowing you,, I'm SURE you could easily do it. (If I can do it,, dern near anybody can!)

 

[Hvymax]

Ok, an update;
I took a picture of the components used to make my .223 bullets. Here it is;

The picture shows the following from left to right;
A plain, fired .22 LR case before working it.
Next,, it shows a de-rimmed case.
After de-rimming,, you anneal these empty cases/jackets.
Above that is the lead core cut from a roll of lead wire. The cut piece is then placed into a core form die to uniform it.
After the core is formed,, it's placed inside the de-rimmed case/jacket. That is put through another "core seating" die, which compresses the lead and expands the brass case to it's .223 dimensions. (I didn't show the inside of the core seated jacket.)
Next,, is the point formed hollow point bullet. This was done in a separate die, after core seating.
At this point,, the bullet is formed and can be used.
I chose to add another step,, the cannalure (crimp ring,) to my bullets. That's the last step prior to loading them in cases. View attachment 27141

Looks awesome. Do you use a standard reloading press for that?

 

[contender]

Yes,, I'm using a RCBS RockChucker press. Dies are threaded just like reloading dies.