9mm Blackhawk convertibles.....

[Stantheman1986]

I've had this convertible Flat Top 9mm for about 10 years......I've never fired a single round of .38 or .357 through it and I either sold or gave away the .357 cylinder years ago.

I have another convertible .357/9mm Blackhawk that shoots way better with 9mm , it must have a little tighter bore. I still like this Flat Top though. It's seen several 1000 rounds of Tulammo back when that stuff was 90 bucks per 1000.

It's dead nuts up to about 15 yards......then accuracy falls off. This target is from 25 , with a two hand hold. It will put up a decent cluster then it's like "here's a flyer!"

At 15 it will put them on top of each other. Oh well , honestly it's inconsistency at 25 keeps it interesting. I have played around with having it opened up for .38 Super but I probably won't bother unless I get a wild hair up my butt about it.

I've sandbagged it, the best it will do is about a baseball sized group at 25.

Some guns just need to be shot close up I guess

 

[Ride1949]

Have you experimented with different loads?

 

[Stantheman1986]

Have you experimented with different loads?

I tried lead 9mm thinking it would "bump up" , but I got the opposite effect...they keyholed

9mm +P isn't any better, and I've probably run most major brands through it.

I'd guess the nominal .357 bore of the revolver vs the .355 9mm bullet, just doesn't give it the fine "spin" a 9mm barrel would and it's staying barely on the edge of stable. Somewhere around 20 yards it loses a little spin and stability and the bullets find their way into a "cluster".

Ironically I put a Bowen target rear sight on it and a brass front blade, so I have the best of the best rear sights to blast my patterns

My other convertible Blackhawk, which I recently fired, will at least drop a maybe baseball sized group into the "head" of one of these Q-Targets at 25 yards , from the bag, it will do a little better. It's by no means ready for a 25 yard Bullseye match but gives usable accuracy to 25 and more than good enough for lazy range day paper punching with the cheapest 9mm I can find. The bore probably just happens to run a bit tight, I've never mic'd it, but just guessing based on the performance.

Ruger has made these 9mm conversions for decades and everyone I've asked that owns one says the 9mm accuracy is "plinker grade" at best. Which is fine, not every gun needs to be a tack driver . 9mm is the lowest cost centerfire option and .22 get old after a while, at least with 9mm I can feel some pop when I punch paper and I enjoy shooting a Single Action vs one of my soul less auto chuckers

I've spent many a nice range day using this Flat Top as basically a big bore .22 , popping steel or aluminum case 9mm into targets and it works well for this, I slicked up the action and it's just a pleasure to shoot and I know not to expect tight groups. I haven't really had it out in a few years, so I recently rediscovered it.

For people looking to get into a Ruger convertible, any of my 2 .45 ACP Vaqueros or my .45 ACP/LC Bisley Blackhawk will punch ragged holes at 25 yards, with ease. And I'm no world class shooter. The .45 ACP conversions are just so much more accurate. But also more $$ to feed and I'm less likely to just plink with .45 ACP.

 

[WAYNO]

And my same revolver in 4-5/8" shoots marvelously well. It never is mated to the .357 cylinder.

Prior to this NM Flattop, I had a full size NM Blackhawk convertibe. It was also phenomenal with 9mm's, but it sure was a big and heavy revolver for such a tiny cartridge.

 

[bisleyfan41]

My 45/45 BH is the same. Never had a box of Colt ammo through it. But it does live on a steady diet of ACP loads, and it shoots them well. Easily my favorite revolver.

I hope you can find a load to help your 9mm to shoot well.

 

[Ride1949]

My .45Colt/ACP flattop convertible is accurate with either cartridge. I love the way these medium frame guns handle. It seems to fit my short fingered hands perfectly.

 

[Stantheman1986]

My bore might be just a hair bigger than most

If TK Customs can ream the cylinder to .38 Super it might turn into a gem

A convertible .357/9mm Vaquero is still high on my list

 

[Hankus]

A couple of years ago during the height of the pandemic I picked up a LNIB 1981 vintage Blackhawk 9mm/.357 convertible with a 6-1/2” barrel. It has such a rich lustrous blue job, and NO hint of a turn ring. I haven’t fired it yet, and don’t know if I ever will. I love shooting.45ACP from my stainless flattop convertible, and have a ‘99 vintage Vaquero .45LC and have an OM .45 ACP cylinder to be fitted to it when I get around to sending it out for customization. Sooner or later I’ll try to find a .45ACP cylinder for my birdshead New Vaquero too. If I run across a shooter-grade .357/9mm convertible I’ll probably pick it up.

 

[Stantheman1986]

Everyone I've contacted has refused to do a .38 Super rechamber on this , SSK just emailed me "it would be an exercise in frustration since most Ruger chambers are out of round and not straight"

Well, ok

I guess this will continue on as a 9mm

 

[Rclark]

My flattop seems to do just fine with .357 (cartridges with 158gr SWCs loaded down to around 1100fps). The 9mm cylinder has only seen one box and that was just to make sure revolver 'functioned' with that cartridge. The 9mm cylinder has not (nor will) see the light of day again as .357 reloads is all it will ever see. Same with my flattop .45 Colt/.45 ACP revolvers. Those revolvers will only get .45 Colt reloads. Not sure what the .45 ACP cylinder is really for . Ha! Note I did test a bunch of .45 ACP loads, but then it dawned on me ... Why? .45 Colt does it all and more, ... no need for the stubby semi-auto cartridge. Reloading cost is a draw ... So why bother.

Sorry to hear your .357 flattop doesn't do well out at 25 Yards.

 

[Dan in MI]

I’m going to ask about a different angle. Have you tried to identify if you have a single hole or two in the cylinder that shoots worse than the rest?

 

[GasGuzzler]

It's not a 9mm convertible. It's a .357 convertible (therefore shoots .38 Special, same caliber, different cartridge) with a 9X19 cylinder ... which is a different caliber and cartridge.

 

[rugerguy]

semantics, when one has a Blackhawk with a 9 mm cylinder, as the other he said is lost or sold or just plain gone what is left to us is a 9mm Blackhawk that once was a convertible and he did state in his OP, the second line, he has another 357/9mm convertible.....

".....and so it goes...Wil Terry " RIP

 

[Rclark]

Maybe semantics, but still sold as a .357 'convertible'... The 9mm cylinder is just an 'add-on' to allow you to shoot the semi-auto cartridge in the BH. The barrel bore diameter is 'set' for shooting .357/.38s, not 9mm.

 

[Klondike Mike]

You might want to explore sending your cylinder out to Fermin Garza to true up the cylinder mouths. The one flyer situation might be from one tight chamber.

 

[Stantheman1986]

My flattop seems to do just fine with .357 (cartridges with 158gr SWCs loaded down to around 1100fps). The 9mm cylinder has only seen one box and that was just to make sure revolver 'functioned' with that cartridge. The 9mm cylinder has not (nor will) see the light of day again as .357 reloads is all it will ever see. Same with my flattop .45 Colt/.45 ACP revolvers. Those revolvers will only get .45 Colt reloads. Not sure what the .45 ACP cylinder is really for . Ha! Note I did test a bunch of .45 ACP loads, but then it dawned on me ... Why? .45 Colt does it all and more, ... no need for the stubby semi-auto cartridge. Reloading cost is a draw ... So why bother.

Sorry to hear your .357 flattop doesn't do well out at 25 Yards.

I'm not setup for hand loading , and probably won't be for a long time. The intent of the convertibles was to allow cheaper practice with pistol rounds or to have "commonality " with another pistol.

Like yesterday , I brought my other 357/9mm convertible and my P89 to the gun club. A single action and an autochucker, threw a 200 round Winchester 9mm "range pack" in my bag and off I go

My main "range fun" go to guns are cap and ball revolvers , I just enjoy the whole process with them so my Ruger cartridge guns like the convertible Blackhawks are mainly just for range shooting and fun , with a cheaper cartridge

 

[Stantheman1986]

I’m going to ask about a different angle. Have you tried to identify if you have a single hole or two in the cylinder that shoots worse than the rest?

Out of two convertible Blackhawks I own, both shoot very well at 15 and open up at 25. If there is a bad chamber or two it only reveals itself at ranges where accuracy is marginal anyway

 

[Stantheman1986]

It's not a 9mm convertible. It's a .357 convertible (therefore shoots .38 Special, same caliber, different cartridge) with a 9X19 cylinder ... which is a different caliber and cartridge.

The only people who will care about what it left the factory as are the people who will be trying to sell it after I'm gone when someone tries to load a .38 or .357 and it doesn't chamber, they will be aware it is a 9mm .

It only has a 9mm cylinder so it's a 9mm, it no longer has any ability to convert. I could send it to Ruger for fitting of another .357 cylinder, but given that I have other options to shoot .357 I'd never bother with it . Proper nomenclature really only matters if it's something rare or someone is trying to sell a gun.

I also have a .45 ACP Vaquero. I have not and won't use the LC cylinder, I have no need. I have fired 1000s of rounds of .45 ACP through it so it is my .45 ACP Vaquero. When I think to myself "what should I take to the range " I'm not like "I'll grab my .45 Long Colt / .45 ACP Convertible stainless 5.5" New Vaquero" , I'm like "I'll roll with the .45 ACP Vaquero"

Edit: I fired exactly 1 box of .45 LC through the 45 LC/ACP Vaquero

 

[Stantheman1986]

You might want to explore sending your cylinder out to Fermin Garza to true up the cylinder mouths. The one flyer situation might be from one tight chamber.

I haven't seen any flyers at the closer ranges, it seems like at 25+ every round pretty much becomes a flyer

I have plenty of other guns if I need to shoot tight groups at 25-50+ yards, I'm basically just reconfirming that this gun is pretty much a 10 yard plinker which is fine with me

 

[needsmostuff]

I haven't seen any flyers at the closer ranges, it seems like at 25+ every round pretty much becomes a flyer

I have plenty of other guns if I need to shoot tight groups at 25-50+ yards, I'm basically just reconfirming that this gun is pretty much a 10 yard plinker which is fine with me

I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance.

 

[Stantheman1986]

I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance.

15 yards is plenty long for me with a 9mm Blackhawk or pretty much any 9mm.

I fired my scoped .30 Carbine Blackhawk to 100 last week, that's the tool for that job , or my .44 SBH Hunter.

I've been carrying pistols for a living most of my adult life, and there's a reason training and qualifications don't go more than 25 yards. Because under stress , shooting 9mm-40-45-.38 handguns at ranges like 50 yards is basically just spray and pray, because usually we don't have a range table and a sandbag available in a gun fight. Also the adrenaline dump and chaos of a gun fight, with lots of moving and shooting....it is hoped that if Police Officers- COs- Security Guards or military personnel are engaged with bad guys past pistol range, that rifles have entered the equation at that point

Also, as a civilian carrying a concealed pistol....I honestly feel that I have no business taking Hail Mary shots at 50-100 yards with small caliber pistols when I should be using that distance to get out of there. Barring some freak mall shooter type scenario

 

[Stantheman1986]

The 9mm / 357 Blackhawks can certainly be a tease.....this is what my other convertible will show you at 15 yards.......but at 25.....expect a group 4-5x bigger.

Good thing the Turkey Shoots at my club are at 15 yards......I'm going to fine tune this thing and reconfirm a dead nuts zero with Winchester 9mm NATO and cut the X's out

If they move the target backer to 18 yards I'm probably screwed , it's gotta be 15 for this gun

I love guns with weird idiosyncrasies. I have a Mossberg 500 that will shoot slugs with rifle like accuracy to pretty much exactly 90 yards. Shoot at 50, boom, it clusters Slugsters into a golf ball sized group. Shoot at the 75 target line, a little looser. Play around and stand a few yards in front of the bench at 100, it can keep them on target. Step back a few yards to 110ish, spray and pray. That little bit of distance is just the limit

 

[Stantheman1986]

You might want to explore sending your cylinder out to Fermin Garza to true up the cylinder mouths. The one flyer situation might be from one tight chamber.

If he would do the .38 Super reaming I'd send it to him

I'd probably then have Ruger fit a new 9mm cylinder, since they will fit 9mm cylinders to Factory Convertibles. So I'd have my 9mm plinker and the .38 Super just to have something different

 

[contender]

"I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance."

I have to respectfully disagree with the above.

Just last weekend,, I went to the USPSA Area 6 Regional competition match. I shot it,, AND worked it for 4 days. (It was 12 stages of fire,, with about 350 rounds required to complete the match.)
In the 12 stages of fire,, and often,, there were targets further than 10, or 15 yds. Plus,, not always at an optimal angle. I'd say that 90% of the guns used were .9mm. From revolvers to semi-auto's to PCC carbines.
I saw plenty of good solid accurate hits on targets,, including moving targets with all of these types of firearms.
Now,, add in the fact that everybody was trying to shoot as fast as they could, AND moving around etc,, the "A" zone area is harder to hit. It's approximately 6" wide by 12" tall. I saw plenty of targets with (2) hits, in the A zone,, that one paster (measuring approximately 1" square) could cover the 2 hits,, or a second paster was necessary, yet overlapping the 1st one.
MANY of the 9mm handguns, and PCC carbines are very capable at distances many feel are "too far."
Just like any caliber or ammo/firearm combo,, you have to build accurate ammo to match the firearm. If done so,, even at distances, they can be VERY accurate.
A discussion recently about the distances people "test" their ammo or firearm etc,, and especially writers for gun rags,, revealed how the older standard has been reduced. A former employee of Ruger stated that when they used to test for accuracy, acceptable accuracy was approximately 1" per 25 yds. Now,, that was most likely when using a machine rest,, but still, it's an OLD standard. Many gun rag writers, or others who's skills are not very good, want to SELL their stories & such. So, they shorten the distances,, and call the guns "accurate" when in reality they can be very lacking.
A member here,, (David Bradshaw,) who has won a bunch of metallic silhouette matches,, shooting handguns,, will say a STARTING distance to determine a handgun's accuracy potential should be 25 yds, and go beyond that to really "test" a gun, a bullet, and a load. Bullet design also plays a lot in longer distance handgunning.

But to say a .9mm isn't capable of long distance accuracy,, or to use the phrase; "refrigerator sized groups" at distance,, should watch a lot of average Joe's shoot a USPSA match.

NO offense meant here,, just point out a different viewpoint of handgunning, and especially the .9mm.

 

[Mobuck]

I have 2 of the convertibles with 6 1/2" barrel. Got the first one before 1980 (I think) and can't remember when the second one showed up. To the best of my memory, I've not fired either with the 9mm cylinder. My bad, just never really saw the need.

 

[CHEVYINLINE6]

I have dual cylinder Blackhawk. 38/357/9mm. When 38 and 357 are hard to come by and expensive, I can still shoot 9mm. Plenty of 9mm around here and cheap as $18.00 a box of 50 rounds. 38 Special is twice that and 357 mag, 3 times that. I will save the 38/357 stuff for more serious shooting. I have everything to reload if need be. I plan on shooting my muzzle loader more this year. With my muzzle loader I can shoot some real wimpy loads. I recently bought a 1940's Montgomery Wards drill press that was made by Duro Metal Products. It is all steel and cast iron. Last year I hurt my right arm and moving the drill press into my garage has not helped it any, so no heavy recoiling guns for awhile.

CHEVYINLINE6.

 

[Rclark]

acceptable accuracy was approximately 1" per 25 yds. Now,, that was most likely when using a machine rest,

Sounds right. When I get a new revolver, I start at 15Y to dial in, then fine tune at 25Y. Now my groups are more like 2-4" at 25Y depending. But definitely in middle of a paper plate. That said, I can't call a gun 'accurate' when shooting from 7-15 Yards. Even smooth bores should work well at those distances. No offense. Once set I have 'confidence' that I can then reach out to 50Y, 75Y and still mostly hit what I aim at (slow single action fire).

I have 2 of the convertibles with 6 1/2" barrel.

My .357 convertible is the flattop BH (medium frame). The bonus for me is it came in 5 1/2" barrel length. Perfect as all my favorite Single Actions have 5 1/2" barrels (my preference). Never thought I'd see the day that Ruger would offer (thanks to Lipseys) such a revolver. Happy camper.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Completely missed the point. It's unlikely to find a barrel that will shoot lights out at a distance with two different caliber bullets. It's a .357 you can shoot .38 in that also was supplied with a 9X19 cylinder. It's not nomenclaure, it's a .357 barrel for a .358 bullet shooting a .355-.356 bullet no matter what we call it. Semantics is what has people incorrectly insert the "Long" in .45 Colt and write "ACP" instead of AUTO for .45 AUTO. .357/.38 vs 9mm Luger is not nomenclature, it's mathematics.

By the way, you can multi-quote people. Just click the quote button on each reply you'd like to quote then insert your commentary. Way easier on the eyes.

 

[Hankus]

15 yards is plenty long for me with a 9mm Blackhawk or pretty much any 9mm.

I fired my scoped .30 Carbine Blackhawk to 100 last week, that's the tool for that job , or my .44 SBH Hunter.

I've been carrying pistols for a living most of my adult life, and there's a reason training and qualifications don't go more than 25 yards. Because under stress , shooting 9mm-40-45-.38 handguns at ranges like 50 yards is basically just spray and pray, because usually we don't have a range table and a sandbag available in a gun fight. Also the adrenaline dump and chaos of a gun fight, with lots of moving and shooting....it is hoped that if Police Officers- COs- Security Guards or military personnel are engaged with bad guys past pistol range, that rifles have entered the equation at that point

Also, as a civilian carrying a concealed pistol....I honestly feel that I have no business taking Hail Mary shots at 50-100 yards with small caliber pistols when I should be using that distance to get out of there. Barring some freak mall shooter type scenario

Agreed on most points, but I tend to practice at 25 yards with my handguns, with one exception; When in the woods at my mother-in-law’s place in the country in GA on the ATV or on foot I carry a Blackhawk or Vaquero in .45LC for “pest control” and have taken coyotes and bobcats with it out past 50 yards with pretty good results using Kentucky windage. As I’ve gotten older I’ve started to think about a .45LC carbine to put in a scabbard on the ATV for this purpose. Lo and behold, last week I ran across a color-case-hardened Henry at a LGS. It would look really good with my CCH Vaquero but it’s pricey!

 

[Sam Summey]

"I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance."

I have to respectfully disagree with the above.

Just last weekend,, I went to the USPSA Area 6 Regional competition match. I shot it,, AND worked it for 4 days. (It was 12 stages of fire,, with about 350 rounds required to complete the match.)
In the 12 stages of fire,, and often,, there were targets further than 10, or 15 yds. Plus,, not always at an optimal angle. I'd say that 90% of the guns used were .9mm. From revolvers to semi-auto's to PCC carbines.
I saw plenty of good solid accurate hits on targets,, including moving targets with all of these types of firearms.
Now,, add in the fact that everybody was trying to shoot as fast as they could, AND moving around etc,, the "A" zone area is harder to hit. It's approximately 6" wide by 12" tall. I saw plenty of targets with (2) hits, in the A zone,, that one paster (measuring approximately 1" square) could cover the 2 hits,, or a second paster was necessary, yet overlapping the 1st one.
MANY of the 9mm handguns, and PCC carbines are very capable at distances many feel are "too far."
Just like any caliber or ammo/firearm combo,, you have to build accurate ammo to match the firearm. If done so,, even at distances, they can be VERY accurate.
A discussion recently about the distances people "test" their ammo or firearm etc,, and especially writers for gun rags,, revealed how the older standard has been reduced. A former employee of Ruger stated that when they used to test for accuracy, acceptable accuracy was approximately 1" per 25 yds. Now,, that was most likely when using a machine rest,, but still, it's an OLD standard. Many gun rag writers, or others who's skills are not very good, want to SELL their stories & such. So, they shorten the distances,, and call the guns "accurate" when in reality they can be very lacking.
A member here,, (David Bradshaw,) who has won a bunch of metallic silhouette matches,, shooting handguns,, will say a STARTING distance to determine a handgun's accuracy potential should be 25 yds, and go beyond that to really "test" a gun, a bullet, and a load. Bullet design also plays a lot in longer distance handgunning.

But to say a .9mm isn't capable of long distance accuracy,, or to use the phrase; "refrigerator sized groups" at distance,, should watch a lot of average Joe's shoot a USPSA match.

NO offense meant here,, just point out a different viewpoint of handgunning, and especially the .9mm.

Having been in this handgun game ~60 years, shooting NRA Precision Pistol, recently ASI action pistol, and 23 years of teaching Concealed Carry Handgun for NC, I use the 25 yard standard as a gage. My criterion for acceptable accuracy for my own personal defense is from a draw, 99% all rounds must be contained in an 8" x 10" typing paper. The rounds are shot in pairs, from repeated draws. The typing paper approximately represents the thoracic region of the body. I think that for defensive purposes, people get too worked up with the idea of shooting all A's, 10's, and X's when massive tissue destruction over a wider area is more effective. A gage of accuracy of a load and firearm combination at 25 yards maybe keeping 25-50 rounds in the black on a 25 yard slow fire pistol target. (Start from a rest and progress to Standing unsupported.) For "Short guns" the standard is shortened to 15 yards.