.45 LC loose neck tension

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Rodfac

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
691
Anyone else having trouble getting enough neck tension on .45 LC cartridges when seating .452" (measured) cast lead bullets? I've got both RCBS and Lyman dies and both sizers don't seem to reduce the neck area enough. Cases are R-P and W-W of fairly recent manufacture. I don't really want to get into another set of dies, so, are there any "thicker" necked brass sources out there?...Like Starline? Thanks in advance, Rodfac By the way, .4515" measured Sierra jacketed bullets just fall down inside the case.
 

redeux

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
26
is this b4 or after expanding ? check to see if yr expander is a .454" diameter ...
if not , then contact rcbs , they will replace the die for you at no charge...
also , get a lee factory crimp die and set for enough crimp to retain the bullet...
 

btrumanj

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
490
Don't know about other dies or the ones made today, but when I first started loading the .45 Colt my Lee dies wouldn't size the cases down enough. I sent the resizing die back explaining my problem. Their solution was to send me a .45 ACP resizing die which I've been using ever since. It works :)
 

J Miller

Blackhawk
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Sep 30, 2000
Messages
977
I have three sets of .45 Colt dies. RCBS - old, Lyman - 90's, and Lee 4 Die Deluxe - fairly recent.

The only die I had trouble with was with RCBS and it's steel sizing die and expander. I had to go to a smaller diameter expander for the smaller bullets.

However once I switched to carbide dies I've had zero problems with any set of dies and any brand of brass.

Just check the diameter of your expander and if it's over .450" order a new one from RCBS or turn yours down a bit.

Joe
 

DGW1949

Hunter
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
3,638
Mr Miller is right.
A .45LC expander should measure .002 less, than whatever bullet you are using measures.

Looking for thicker brass might address the symptoms, but it won't fix the problem.

DGW
 

Bucks Owin

Hunter
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
3,190
redeux":36w37rmc said:
is this b4 or after expanding ? check to see if yr expander is a .454" diameter ...
I expect his expander already IS .452" to.454"....Too big! It needs to be closer to .450" as Joe recommended. A big problem with the great .45 Colt cartridge is the hodgepodge of dimensions in the chamber, throat and bore size that are out there. Seems no manufacturer has ever had a handle on what they should be! I wish they'd all just follow John Linebaugh's lead and stick with SAAMI chamber specs on the minimum side, give us .4525" throats and a .452" bore and let the .45 Colt really shine... :wink:
 

paul105

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
143
+1 on everything Bucks Owin said.

I did have a .45 Colt sizer die that wouldn't size cases enough for proper neck tension on .452" bullets. You could actually turn the cimped bullets in the case. I checked the Dillon powder funnel (expander) and it was fine. A new sizer die fixed the problem.

Paul
 

J Miller

Blackhawk
Joined
Sep 30, 2000
Messages
977
Bucks Owin":2xqg24pn said:
redeux":2xqg24pn said:
is this b4 or after expanding ? check to see if yr expander is a .454" diameter ...
I expect his expander already IS .452" to.454"....Too big! It needs to be closer to .450" as Joe recommended. A big problem with the great .45 Colt cartridge is the hodgepodge of dimensions in the chamber, throat and bore size that are out there. Seems no manufacturer has ever had a handle on what they should be! I wish they'd all just follow John Linebaugh's lead and stick with SAAMI chamber specs on the minimum side, give us .4525" throats and a .452" bore and let the .45 Colt really shine... :wink:

That is soooooooo true. I completely agree.

Joe
 

sixshot

Buckeye
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
1,829
You will definitely need a smaller expander, no amount of crimp is going to correct the problem, you have to have neck tension. I think a minimum of .002", probably more like 4-5. Turning one down is extremely hard to do because they are HARD!

Dick
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
I've reduced the diameters of the expander plugs in my Lee Carbide Die sets. The efforts are definitely rewarded!

flatgate
 

pvtschultz

Blackhawk
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
553
I've never had any troubles with my 3 y/o LEE Carbide Die set, in fact, I think that it undersizes them to be exact although I have yet to measure them after sizing.

On a side note, I have noticed that my 45 Colt PMC brass is thicker than my Winchester brass. But, again, I have yet to actually measure any. I just shoot 'em.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
11,167
Interesting topic.

I pulled the expander from my old .45 Colt Lyman "Multi" set, and it measures .449".

Just for fun I also checked the one in the .45 ACP set, and it measures .450".

I don't appear to have neck tension problems, but if I load "soft" I do get case soot, which is just a lack of enough pressure to seal the cases against the cylinder walls. That and some of my cases are getting a little old, so they may be getting a little hard. I have not annealed them.

:D
 

callshot

Blackhawk
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
952
I had that problem a year or so ago. I was using Hornady dies. When I called them they sent me a 454 Casul die body. They did mention that Winchester brass is thin. I also had some problem with Remington brass. Since using the 454 die body I haven't had any problem.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
11,167
As I recall, Lyman used to offer expander plugs to suit your requirements. I e-mailed them and inquired, and was advised that they no longer do that . . . just the "standard" ones for each chambering are offered.
 

andyo5

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
299
No problem using Remington cases and Dillon dies. You can see the case slightly swollen by the bullet, which means it must be a tight fit. Only issue was Dillon's crimping die, which would taper crimp only. I got a Lee crimping die and solved this problem.
 

63November

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Messages
249
andyo5":31ikfdbz said:
No problem using Remington cases and Dillon dies. You can see the case slightly swollen by the bullet, which means it must be a tight fit.

Ditto with the RCBS carbides I have. Winchester works great too. No trouble with the crimp die either but I prefer the Lee FC die for my heavy loads. (The only heavy recoil revolver cartridge I shoot which doesn't get the Lee treatment is my 480/475s. Hornady makes a very good profile crimp die for their die set which works very well however.)
 

Racklover

Bearcat
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
33
So what happens when you shoot one with insufficient neck tension but a decent crimp? Buddy of mine told me the other day he could just push the bullets in by hand but was able to get a good crimp on them.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
11,167
Over on the "other" Ruger forum, IOWEGAN has performed some considerable testing on neck tension and crimping. His research indicates that crimping only contributes a limited amount to securing the bullet, with the majority of the holding power coming from the neck tension. This is not to say that crimp is unnecessary, as it does its bit in the sequence, but it's apparently not as critical as we have all been led to believe.

Personally, I like a good, snug fit at seating and a nice "firm" crimp. I admit that I do not load up "superloudenboomenwhackers", so I cannot speak to how those react to the crimp/tension situation.

:D
 

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