I am loading a speer 230 gr. TMJ RN. After seating the bullet I run the shells thru the taper crimp die. I can turn the bullets in the case and move them in and out slightly. What am I doing wrong? One thing I did do was clean the cases prior to loading in a Lyman case cleaner with media. I haven't had this problem before.
.45 ACP loading problem
- Thread starter oscar243
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I have to ask the obvious. Could you have forgotten to resize the brass?
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
The die sets expander may be wrong. Several things could be wrong. Measure a case after each step to discover just what is happening.
Let us know what you find?
Let us know what you find?
Good point, Chuck. I just measured my RCBS expander die and it measures .4485. oscar243, what does your expander die measure?
I just measured 5 different brands of .45 ACP bullets and they ran a consistent low of .450 to a consistent high of .452 depending on the brand.
I just measured 5 different brands of .45 ACP bullets and they ran a consistent low of .450 to a consistent high of .452 depending on the brand.
Have to ask, are you new to handloading?
Progressive press?
Sounds like the expander die is set way too deep.
How far does the bullet go into the case when you set it on top?
Should only be about 1/16" or less, just enough to get a start.
Progressive press?
Sounds like the expander die is set way too deep.
How far does the bullet go into the case when you set it on top?
Should only be about 1/16" or less, just enough to get a start.
Why aint your seating the bullet and crimping at the same time? that's how dies work, if the bullet is loose your not giving it enough crimp, lower the crimping die down a bit give it some more crimp, and raise the bullet seater up the same amount you just lowered the crimp die you don't seat the bullet to deep.
Going to take some practice to get it just right keep trying a be patient you'll get it.
Going to take some practice to get it just right keep trying a be patient you'll get it.
DeletedMember275
Hunter
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You're not the first one to have this problem. Some .45 ACP brass is noticeably thinner than others, and can cause this problem with some bullets. Remington brass comes readily to mind. Additional crimp is NOT the answer; you need to increase the neck tension. If all of your brass suffers from this problem, I would suggest either turning the expander plug down .001-.002", or perhaps trying a different set of dies. If it's just one brand of brass, then you can either avoid that brand or try what I mentioned earlier.
Many, many reloaders seat bullets in one step and then crimp in another step. When you think it through, this process really makes more sense than trying to seat and crimp at the same time.
Don't give up! Try changing one thing at a time until you solve your problem.
Many, many reloaders seat bullets in one step and then crimp in another step. When you think it through, this process really makes more sense than trying to seat and crimp at the same time.
Don't give up! Try changing one thing at a time until you solve your problem.
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
I always seat and crimp as separate steps. I get more consistent results that way.
Full length resize a case and try to push a bullet into it by hand. If it wont start then the next thing to try will be the expander. The expander should expand the case just enough to make the bullet just start in the case about 1/16". If after expanding you can push the bullet in with your thumb,no amount of crimping will make it a tight fit and the problem is with the expander either oversize or the brass is to soft or to thin.
Full length resize a case and try to push a bullet into it by hand. If it wont start then the next thing to try will be the expander. The expander should expand the case just enough to make the bullet just start in the case about 1/16". If after expanding you can push the bullet in with your thumb,no amount of crimping will make it a tight fit and the problem is with the expander either oversize or the brass is to soft or to thin.
Thanks for all the tips. I've been reloading for 45 years and use a RCBS single stage press. I did mike the bullets at .449-.450. The brass is Remington. I will now concentrate on the dies. Being that the .45 acp headspaces on the rim, I don't crimp or least very little.
why add a step? just means you don't know how to adjust dies well enough to seat and crimp at the same time, my loads are just as consistent doing in one step as yours are that take you guys two steps.
Die sets don't come with the wrong size of expander :roll: unless of coarse you bought a Lee set :lol:
Die sets don't come with the wrong size of expander :roll: unless of coarse you bought a Lee set :lol:
oscar243 said:
There's your problem like I say give it some more crimp Remington brass is very soft but will crimp tight and your RCBS expander is the right size I use that brand so I know.
Speer bullets are also always a hair smaller than other brands also which requires adjusting your crimp die if you were using a different brand prier to the Speer billets.
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
6gun , I have been loading ammo since 1955. I fully understand how to adjust the dies so they can be crimped and bullet seated at the same time. I even make my own dies from time to time for off sized or unavailable cartridges.
You are a trusting soul if you think that no wrong sized expander plugs are ever made or shipped with die sets..
I have seen .458 expanders in .45 Colt die sets and .451 expanders in .45-70 die sets.
You are a trusting soul if you think that no wrong sized expander plugs are ever made or shipped with die sets..
I have seen .458 expanders in .45 Colt die sets and .451 expanders in .45-70 die sets.
Chuck 100 yd said:
Sounds like you have never used Speer bullets then they are a hair smaller than other brands and require more crimp, I don't care what you have been doing since 1955 I'm not going to argue with you when I know I'm right from experience, if the OP does just what I said to do his bullets will tighten up just fine, so go take your meds. and calm down this is not the Gun Control and Other Political Issues forum :roll:
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
6gun said:
Hi,
6gun, it's good to see the joy of the holiday season hasn't managed to ruin your normally irascible persona. Do you have to work at it, or are you one of those blessed few who can get out of bed every morning with a bad attitude, no effort required? :roll:
Rick C
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
My dad would say... "You kids play nice or I am going to turn this car around and you both will get a trip to the wood shed"
SweetWilliam
Buckeye
With pistol I seat & crimp in 2 steps when I'm loading bullets with exposed soft lead. It keeps from flattening the nose of the bullet. And I don't trim any of my pistol brass.
And with rifle I've found bullets with exposed lead noses are worse. It might take a little longer but it makes for a better reload.
And with rifle I've found bullets with exposed lead noses are worse. It might take a little longer but it makes for a better reload.
Rick Courtright said:
Nor have the holidays managed to ruin your irascibly unchristian behavior as you judge others just for not agreeing with you or going along with your herd mentality, you don't exactly ever have a friendly attitude as you go into your high and mighty act of putting others down.
I am really surprised you didn't write one of your full page essays to respond like you normally do using lots of words that say nothing. :roll:
oscar243 said:
Which RCBS die set are you using to load your Speer 45acp bullets ? I use set 18915 and my Speer bullets fit fine, I'm starting to wonder if your die set might be for lead bullets if your way oversized.
I had to send my 44-40 die set back to RCBS once cause it was a lead set and I was loading jacked bullets they sent me the correct set plus sent my old set back also.
My best advise right now would be to call RCBS tomorrow and explain what is going on to them, they will take care of you and set you up with something that will work for the bullets you are using, they will not charge you and it don't matter how old your set is.
Other than that you can read all the posts here of guys arguing who knows best as they puff out their chests and claim they do and that will get you no where. :lol:
powder smoke
Hawkeye
I am also NEW to 45acp reloading not reloading.
After sizing I expand the mouth Just enough to start the bullet
straight and square. Seating the bullet I see a bulge in the case
where the projectile actually expands the case when you seat
the bullet. Neck tension will hold it no need to crimp. I do a drop text
hold the loaded case about a foot above the bench and drop square on its nose
and measure they do not move.
Being new to loading auto ammo I hesitate use a crimp. To much crimp can
be a major problem. ps
After sizing I expand the mouth Just enough to start the bullet
straight and square. Seating the bullet I see a bulge in the case
where the projectile actually expands the case when you seat
the bullet. Neck tension will hold it no need to crimp. I do a drop text
hold the loaded case about a foot above the bench and drop square on its nose
and measure they do not move.
Being new to loading auto ammo I hesitate use a crimp. To much crimp can
be a major problem. ps
powder smoke said:
Nothing wrong with that if you don't mind the bulge your bullets not going anywhere, press fit works good as a crimp long as your case don't collapse or buckle on you, I know when I use Starline brass it's going to give the same bulge even if I do a full case expansion.
cadillo
Blackhawk
oscar243 said:
I may not have the level of experience of some others here, but have been loading .45 ACP for just over thirty years now, and can see some of your probable causes right away.
First, your bullets are of insufficient diameter for many if not most applications. I rarely load any jacketed bullets since I began casting, but all I ever loaded mic'd at 0.451" or just a bit more. Anything less is asking for complications. Yes it is possible to load smaller bullets, but they are more problematic and just not worth the effort. You need bullets of greater diameter. My cast bullets for ACP are either .452 for revolvers, or .453 for semi autos.
Second, you are using Remington brass. For over twenty years I worked for Uncle Sam, and we were issued a lot of Remington handgun ammo, some of which was .45 ACP. Throughout that time we had a lot of ongoing problems with Remington ammo, all of which was related to their brass. A lot of the ACP ammo had splits in the cases right out of the box. A lot more of them would split upon firing.
Our agency once had to return many thousands of rounds of Remington .40 S&W because the bullets could be pressed into the cases with only very light finger pressure. The sizing seemed to be OK because they would pass the case gauge test, and chamber all right, but I believe that the brass alloy was just too soft and lacked enough spring back to properly grip the bullet. Avoid Remington brass like a social disease. To do otherwise is just asking for trouble.
Third, if you are seating and crimping in one step, you need to stop as it's just begging for trouble. I know that there are a lot of people who seat and crimp in one step and get excellent results, but in order for it to work, everything has to be adjusted just right, which in and of itself is just way too complicated for most of us. Do yourself a huge favor and get yourself a dedicated crimp die. It can be a standard seater die, but remove the seating stem, and adjust it to simply crimp the case mouth in a separate step.
For example, I cast and shoot four different 200 grain bullets in .45 ACP, because different guns prefer different bullets and loads. Whenever I change from one bullet to another, I simply adjust my seater die. Only rarely would I have to readjust my crimp die, unless loading for my tight chambered Barsto barrel. If I were seating and crimping with one die, every change in seating depth would require a change in crimping depth that would work in harmony with that OAL. TOO COMPLICATED! Yes it can be done and successfully, but it's too much work.
I would also chuck my expander mandrel in a drill and dress it down a thousandth or so, and then give it good polish with crocus cloth. Then make sure that you are not belling the case mouths too much. When I seat a bullet in an auto cartridge, I like seeing a step in the outside of the case where the case has been expanded by the seated bullet. It's all about harmony between the case ID, bullet OD, and proper crimp.
Let us know how things work out.
My experience with Remington brass have always resulted with split cases in rifle or pistol rounds going back over 30 years some split when fired the first time as a factory load others the first time reloaded, I like how nice and easy their brass resizes but it also tells me it's to soft, it's also to brittle as easily as it cracks, of course no ammo remanufacture guarantees it brass to be reloadable, being reloadable is just a bonus far as they are concerned the brass did it's job being fired once.
powder smoke
Hawkeye
6 these bullets hold fine no real bulge you can just make out the profile of the bullet.
BTW they call that neck tension
BTW they call that neck tension
cadillo
Blackhawk
powder smoke said:
A slight taper crimp is a good thing, and much better than not enough, especially if used in an auto loader. Exposed case mouth can cause extraction issues in some guns, when the extracting case head hits and tries to peel back the exposed mouth of the next cartridge in the magazine. Sig P220's can be bad in this regard.
To adjust my dedicated crimp die I use a fired and unsized case. I put it in the shell holder and run it up into the die, and then adjust the die downward until it just touches the case mouth. I then lower the ram and turn the die down an additional quarter turn only, and lock it in place there. This has worked well with both autos and my .45 ACP Bisleys; just enough, but not too much.
Instead of using a fired case I use a dummy round that's set to exact specs. I use it to set the bullet seater for OAL as well as set the crimp, I can set it right to the crimp on the dummy round and it comes out exact, it's a very fast way to set up dies and every round that passes through matches my dummy round perfectly.
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