LuckenbachTexas
Buckeye
We ain't had this discussion in a while
CraigC, whatcha say?
CraigC, whatcha say?
44 Special for Grizzly?
- Thread starter LuckenbachTexas
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schloss
Single-Sixer
How many grizzlies do you have in TX?
Jim Puke
Hunter
I ain't CraigC...but I am me...and I say NO. The 44 special has no bigger fan than me...but it ain't a dangerous game round.
By the same token, I don't think the 44mag or 45colt are dangerous game rounds, either...although, they would be more effective than the special due to heavier bullet weight that they will stabilize.
By the same token, I don't think the 44mag or 45colt are dangerous game rounds, either...although, they would be more effective than the special due to heavier bullet weight that they will stabilize.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
I agree with Jim Luke entirely. I would not feel properly armed with anything less than a hot, heavy bullet .454 Casull or equivalent.
GhosT
Blackhawk
Different story, but might fit in here.
Live in "burbs" where although not city,not country either ,1/2 to one acre properties.
{This was a dozen years ago....lol}
Local biker "GROUP" lived 2 properties away.
They decided livestock was a good idea...and goats,and chickens,and pea hens,etc....lol
Built a "barn" fenced off the yard, cattle showed up..
FEMALE cattle...bread for meat....not milk,not friendly, are those COWS?
They had 5 of them,got loose 2 times,bikers asked for my help rounding them up.
EVER BEEN CHARGED BY FREED,YET SCARED CATTLE, was not fun...
Bikers paid me for my efforts with their chicken eggs....
YUP trashed those eggs....lol
Getting to the point.....They bought a BREEDING BULL!!!
Every time I walked in my back yard... That BULL made F.U. sounds.....HATE in it's eyes.
It never got loose,,but this post reminded me ......
Screw a Grizzly...that bull, my .44 magnum was far from enough!
My Military shotgun...with 00 buckshot and Foster slugs would not save my ass!!!
WELL, maybe the shotgun would, but only cause a ton of trees to hide behind while shooting and STAINING MY PANTS!
"44 Special for Grizzly?"
Have you NOT watched the Grizzly scene in "The Revenant" YET.... :lol:
Live in "burbs" where although not city,not country either ,1/2 to one acre properties.
{This was a dozen years ago....lol}
Local biker "GROUP" lived 2 properties away.
They decided livestock was a good idea...and goats,and chickens,and pea hens,etc....lol
Built a "barn" fenced off the yard, cattle showed up..
FEMALE cattle...bread for meat....not milk,not friendly, are those COWS?
They had 5 of them,got loose 2 times,bikers asked for my help rounding them up.
EVER BEEN CHARGED BY FREED,YET SCARED CATTLE, was not fun...
Bikers paid me for my efforts with their chicken eggs....
YUP trashed those eggs....lol
Getting to the point.....They bought a BREEDING BULL!!!
Every time I walked in my back yard... That BULL made F.U. sounds.....HATE in it's eyes.
It never got loose,,but this post reminded me ......
Screw a Grizzly...that bull, my .44 magnum was far from enough!
My Military shotgun...with 00 buckshot and Foster slugs would not save my ass!!!
WELL, maybe the shotgun would, but only cause a ton of trees to hide behind while shooting and STAINING MY PANTS!
"44 Special for Grizzly?"
Have you NOT watched the Grizzly scene in "The Revenant" YET.... :lol:
clintsfolly
Single-Sixer
More people die from worrying about bear attacks then bear attacks!
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Good point about the Revenant grizzly scene. The best movie attack scene so far, partly due to computer enhancement. But still fell a bit short of the real thing. In real life an actual attack is lightening fast and the victim almost always has his scalp ripped loose from the first bite on the head, including the real Hugh Glass who did as well.
The point is, once the bear makes contact, there's no possible chance of shooting it or defending against it any longer. The shot has to be a killing shot and be delivered while the bear is still several feet away. Even a killing shot will not prevent serious injury, only after that bear stops moving are you safe. Many have been mauled or killed by a "dead" bear that still reached them before going down.
So the issue is not just a load or caliber that can kill the bear, a .22 can do that. The issue is a cartridge that will kill the bear and STOP the bear ASAP and before it gets to you!
A grizzly bear can cover 100 feet in 3 seconds! Think about that the next time you try to see how many accurate shots you can get off on a moving target in 3 seconds with a heavy recoiling revolver. Recognize that when you're within a 100 feet of a charging grizzly, you are clearly in its killing zone. That's a lot different than the 21 feet killing zone rule for a human attacker that law enforcement are trained for!
My first choice will always be bear spray with a firearm back up. Start spraying if the bear is within 100 feet, but start shooting if already in full charge at 100 feet. Or both if you have someone with you!
The point is, once the bear makes contact, there's no possible chance of shooting it or defending against it any longer. The shot has to be a killing shot and be delivered while the bear is still several feet away. Even a killing shot will not prevent serious injury, only after that bear stops moving are you safe. Many have been mauled or killed by a "dead" bear that still reached them before going down.
So the issue is not just a load or caliber that can kill the bear, a .22 can do that. The issue is a cartridge that will kill the bear and STOP the bear ASAP and before it gets to you!
A grizzly bear can cover 100 feet in 3 seconds! Think about that the next time you try to see how many accurate shots you can get off on a moving target in 3 seconds with a heavy recoiling revolver. Recognize that when you're within a 100 feet of a charging grizzly, you are clearly in its killing zone. That's a lot different than the 21 feet killing zone rule for a human attacker that law enforcement are trained for!
My first choice will always be bear spray with a firearm back up. Start spraying if the bear is within 100 feet, but start shooting if already in full charge at 100 feet. Or both if you have someone with you!
pisgah
Buckeye
Several times in this forum and others I have asked people who have actually survived a grizzly charge to explain to the rest of us what weapon they used. Surprisingly, no one has ever responded, which strikes me as odd since, given the frequency of the "what gun" discussion, grizzly charges must be going on every day in at least 38 states...
Hondo44
Hawkeye
pisgah said:
You haven't "asked people who have actually survived a grizzly charge...", you have only asked forum members and shouldn't expect much more than opinions on forums. So you're especially not likely to get actual grizzly charge experiences on a specifically Ruger forum. And the frequency of discussions and opinions have no relationship to frequency of occurrences or experiences.
If you want facts, you need to go to the sources and read the non-fiction books. Then you too can learn about hundreds of documented attacks. Not many opinions in forums are based on those.
Captain America
Hunter
No grizzly's here in SE PA but I do see the occasional Black Bear, their pretty docile and skittish so I don't fear them as much as I respect them...but I do wonder if the .357 I have with me will be enough. Just don't get between mom and the little ones and they generally ignore you.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
Imho, anything smaller than an RPG is a gamble with Grizz, Alaska Browns, & Polar bears. :wink:
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Captain America said:
If you see bears, you should have bear spray in addition to your 357 magnum. The 357 will probably work in your case with black bear, but you still may get hurt. And if you don't get hurt it'll go even worse for you. Because then you have no actual proof you were in peril. The hurt you experience will be financially in court, even if you win the case.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
GunnyGene said:
LOL But that's not that far from the truth. It's a gamble at best.
Thumbcocker
Blackhawk
I don't think a Griz could manipulate the hammer on a .44 special or charge the cylinder.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
Hondo44 said:
Back in the mid 50's my late father and a couple of his buddies (Navy) went hunting polar bear during a ice breaker trip up north. They had 30-06 rifles. Took 6 rounds to stop the bear which ended up about 20 feet from them. All of the shots were in what we'd call the "vitals". Bears is tough critters. :shock:
Captain America
Hunter
Thumbcocker said:
NIce! :lol: :lol: :lol:
pisgah
Buckeye
Hondo44 said:
You make my point nicely, Hondo. Whenever this subject comes up, there are many who come forward with "expert" advice that is worth what you're paying for it -- nothing.
First of all, while grizzly attacks do happen they are quite rare, even in griz country. Second, those who venture opinions on what gun is best for such an encounter might as well be giving advice on how to converse with invading Venusians -- they haven't a clue.
If you are in bear country and feel the need to have a gun, go with what you have, but always behave in a manner that is appropriate in the presence of bears and the odds of needing that gun become vanishingly small, whatever it is
BearBio
Buckeye
Actually, the question is so vague as to be useless:
What Bear? 350 lb inland griz sow,
450 lb inland boar==
600+ Coastal sow
700-900 Coastal boar
~1000 lb Kodiak (or other island brownie)
Pisgah and Hondo are right on.
What 44 spl?
Hot loaded in a 44 mag Super?
Factory loads in a BullDog
Colt SAA?
Super heavy load in a Blackhawk?
What bullet?
Hardcast, wide meplat"
Solid bronze?
Where I live Inland griz are present but very rare. i carry a custom Reeder 454 or a OM Blackhawk in 45 (wide meplat, 325gr @ ~ 1200-1300). However, my primary defense is Counter Assault!
What Bear? 350 lb inland griz sow,
450 lb inland boar==
600+ Coastal sow
700-900 Coastal boar
~1000 lb Kodiak (or other island brownie)
Pisgah and Hondo are right on.
What 44 spl?
Hot loaded in a 44 mag Super?
Factory loads in a BullDog
Colt SAA?
Super heavy load in a Blackhawk?
What bullet?
Hardcast, wide meplat"
Solid bronze?
Where I live Inland griz are present but very rare. i carry a custom Reeder 454 or a OM Blackhawk in 45 (wide meplat, 325gr @ ~ 1200-1300). However, my primary defense is Counter Assault!
jgt
Buckeye
Read the Lewis and Clark diaries if you want a good description of a grizzly bear encounter. They had 54 calibers if I recall correctly.
Captain America
Hunter
I'm guessing this guy reached his target heart rate while on this ride, listen for the gunshots at the end...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0pO79YkvY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0pO79YkvY
whichwatch
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2012
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.44 special for a grizzly? Sure, for a cub.
Big Old Boy
Hunter
22 short hit them in the eye then run as fast as you can and leave the guy you shot in the eye.
JLarsson
Single-Sixer
BearBio said:
With .44 Spl, I think depleted uranium might be in order.
Captain America
Hunter
Big Old Boy said:
Yup, you don't have to be faster than the bear, you just have to be faster than the guy you're with.
Pretty sure a 22.15-grain FMJBT hand-loaded into a match-resized .22LR case over a quarter-grain of Bullseye would do the job if bullet placement were fully optimized and the wind was from the northeast at about 3.7 MPH . . . on Tuesday.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
Since we're talking about bears in particular (and other potentially dangerous critters generally), here's a little info about various species that might be of interest. Grizz are the fastest of the bears, but Polar and Kodiak get a lot bigger. The White bear of the North is the apex carnivore of the bunch.The one my father shot was about 1000lbs if memory serves - and from what he said was totally pissed off.
http://speedofanimals.com/
http://speedofanimals.com/
BearBio
Buckeye
GunnyGene said:
BTW: Polar Bears are the only NATURAL predator on man (terrestrial). ANYTHING they come across is FOOD!
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
BearBio said:
Yup. An avg size male polar would have a big male grizz as an afternoon snack, if he could catch one. If one escapes from some zoo near you, it would be wise to be someplace else. :shock: Which is why I've always wondered about the environmentalists love affair with them. :roll:
I think the record for one is around 2000lbs and over 11' on his hind legs. Not something I'd want to do CQB with. :shock: Although if you could train one, you'd never need any other security system. :wink:
And they've survived as a species for around 500,000 years. Gotta be tough! Good write up about them on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_bear#Life_expectancy
Btw, the bear was mounted standing and was in a bar in Long Beach owned by one of Dads buddies last time I saw it - around 1967.
He also had some other mementos of his time in the Navy - a couple real shrunken heads, and other cute stuff. :wink:Hondo44
Hawkeye
pisgah said:
Glad to be of help.
BearBio
Buckeye
Roy Weatherby's old shop in south Gate had a 10' polar bear mounted there. It was #9 largest, I think.
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