.223 and Titegroup

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MuayThaiJJ

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 22, 2023
Messages
217
Location
Danville
Hey gang,

I've scoured Google and found a lot of mentions that Hodgdon lists 3.1gn of Titegroup working with .223
I did this load with some 55gr-62gr FMJ and had 2 squibs.

The only confirmed source I could find on Titegroup and .223 was on this forum, a user reportedly used 4.0gn of Titegroup: https://www.silencertalk.com/forum/view ... 98#p709898

Does anyone else have confirmed loads of .223 with TG?

thanks!
N
 

noahmercy

Blackhawk
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
748
Location
Sheridan, WY
The data I found was from Hodgdon themselves, and the only load listed was 3.1 grains under a 55 grain Hornady FMJ. COL was 2.200", primer was Winchester small rifle, velocity from a 24 inch barrel was 1,064 FPS, and pressure was only 4,000 CUP.

My only thought is that despite Titegroup being a position insensitive powder, the 223 is long enough that it may be possible for that small a charge to move completely towards the front of the case and fail to ignite properly, causing the squibs. Might consider PuffLon filler to hold the powder back against the primer. That stuff works wonders with low-density loads and it's fine with suppressors.
 

convert1967

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 13, 2023
Messages
13
Location
Virginia
Shotgun/pistol powder in a rife? Your just looking for trouble. Titegroup is fast burning, where rifle powder is slower. About the only powder I now of that lets you load light loads is 4895. Max loads can be reduced up to 60 percent for load developement. 62 GR bullets max load is 23 gr of H4895. Hodgdon state 23 x .6 = 13.8 gr starting load. Not sure how slow or quiet the bullet would be.
 

rugerjunkie

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
1,977
Location
Kansas
Not sure why anyone would want a 223 load at 1000 fps…

Subsonics are the new fad! Haven't you heard? Fads don't necessarily make ideas into good ideas though.

My $.02 , if you want a subsonic round , get a gun in one of the calibers that was made for subs like the 300 Blackout and be done with it. Trying to make something like the 223 into that with totally wrong twist rates and piss poor bullet selection for the task makes no sense at all and sounds like more frustration than its worth.
 

GasGuzzler

Hunter
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
2,985
Location
Cooke County, Texas
Shotgun/pistol powder in a rife? Your just looking for trouble.
Be careful using too large a blanket in conversation.

Shotgun and pistol powders differ but in your post they are grouped together. Sure, some shotgun powder is good for straight wall magnum revolver rounds but you likely wouldn't load 12 gauge with Bullseye, right? Unique with cast .30-30 Winchester is a nice round. That's pistol powder in a rifle. Making too large of generalities discussing reloading results in several errors in logic.

4 grains of Titegroup in .223 Remington is a little off the wall though. I would give my opinion of a load but I think that would be irresponsible. Need someone with QuickLoad.

There are many reasons people load there own ammunition. Cost, precision, "self-sufficient-NESS", and ... the ability to make something you can't buy. If we only ask why without trying, we never invent anything. Reloading should be a creative pass-time but there are always those "only go by the book types".
The books don't even agree...
 

Actnbill

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 16, 2023
Messages
313
Location
Seacoast NH
I use Titegroup all the time in my 45's….. There is no way in hell I'd use it in my 223's. It's such a fine powder in such a big area of rifle case you are asking for problems. Even a shotgun has a wad to keep the powder back at the primer….not 223
 

The Preacher

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Messages
497
Location
South-Central PA
I agree with the above comments in regard to using Titegroup in a 223. Don't. However, to the question of why a 1000 fps load for a 223... For years I loaded my 222 Rem. and my boy's 223 Rem. with IMR 4198 and SR4759 to about 1500-2000 fps with 40 and 50 gr. bullets for squirrels and turkey in the Fall. Switched back over to full power loads in the summer for ground hogs and such.
 

Funky

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
93
Location
NE Indiana
There are many good reasons to use -1000 fps loads. One reason is there is no reason to wake the whole neighborhood up when there is a critter problem. Another reason is to start young shooters, so they have fun. No reason to advertise when You don't have to. There are many good loads using 2400, Bullseye, Blue Dot, Red Dot, SR 4756, and similar powders. Good Luck and Good Shooting Chris
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
10,466
Location
missouri
"Not sure why anyone would want a 223 load at 1000 fps…"
There are times when this might be worthwhile. One of those times might be when calling coyotes if that first one came in really close and could be knocked down with a PFFFT head shot from the suppressed AR. I don't see those situations often enough to even make the effort. Sub-sonic centerfire loads are tricky. Getting accuracy and terminal performance to coincide with sub-sonic velocities in the .223 may be nearly impossible. That's the basis for the 300AAC.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
573
Location
Twin Cities, MN
In 308, I use 8 grains of Titegroup with a 168 grain bullet. Great super quiet load with my supressor, and groups nicely. I've never had a squib with it.

Do you have a chrono? if so, what's the velocity? I'm guessing that it's well below 1000fps. My suggestion would be to bump up the charge in 0.1 grain increments until you get to about 1040 FPS.


If you don't have a chono, beg, borrow or steal one - it's vital for playing with subsonics.
 
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