Yankee_Papa
Bearcat
Does the 44 Spl GP100 have +P capability? Will it handle Keith loads? Will it handle near 44 Mag loads like the S&W Model 24?
GP100 44 Spl +P loads
- Thread starter Yankee_Papa
- Start date
OP
Yankee_Papa
Bearcat
You didn't answer the question.
"Will it handle NEAR 44 Mag loads like the S&W Model 24?"
FYI the 44 Mag was developed with a Model 24 (44 Spl).
1chessiefan
Bearcat
Yankee Papa,
I do not think you should run hot loads through the GP100 .44 Special. The forcing cones are pretty thin. I had to send one back to Ruger for a new barrel due to a cracked forcing cone. I had mostly shot standard pressure factory .44 Special in it. I had also run some of Buffalo Bore’s full wadcutter loads through it. I cannot say what caused the problem but I will not be running any hot loads through it in the future.
1chessiefan
I do not think you should run hot loads through the GP100 .44 Special. The forcing cones are pretty thin. I had to send one back to Ruger for a new barrel due to a cracked forcing cone. I had mostly shot standard pressure factory .44 Special in it. I had also run some of Buffalo Bore’s full wadcutter loads through it. I cannot say what caused the problem but I will not be running any hot loads through it in the future.
1chessiefan
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I would agree with that. I stick with the Skeeter load in mine. That's has 'hot' as I will go with the the GP-100. YMMV. My .44 Special BH flattops on the other hand will take warmer loads.... but I have no need to go there, even though I ran one of 'em with some Keith loads while testing.... I have .44 Magnums that are 'made' to handle magnum loads if needed.
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stanley_white
Bearcat
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2022
- Messages
- 18
Because I was curious I see the 4.2” GP100 in 44 Special weighs 37 ounces while the 4.25” barrel S&W Model 69 in 44 Magnum weighs 37.4 ounces.
Please don’t ban me.
-Stan
Please don’t ban me.
-Stan
Jon406
Single-Sixer
If you want near 44 Magnum loads, buy a Redhawk.
JStacy
Blackhawk
OP you mention the S&W mod 24 handling near 44 mag loads. I have seen a couple of Mod24 & 624's fall victim to that thinking with bulged and cracked forcing cones. The load was the Keith bullet and 2400 load Elmer used. I have a vintage Mod 24 and it gets fed 7.0/unique and 240 csw and it is very accurate with that load. I also have a Super Redhawk to shoot 44 mag loads out of. I would not exceed the max 44 special loads listed in most manuals in any 44 spl. Hot 44 spls is the reason they came out with the 44 mag in DA revolvers.
Of note . . . there is no SAAMI spec for .44 Special +P.
I think that the main reason for bulged and cracked forcing cones on S&W M24 and M624 is longer unsupported barrel protruding from the frame, to compensate for shorter cylinder:
M624:
M629:
Attachments
Biggfoot44
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2009
- Messages
- 829
*IF* you're going to draw rough parallels between your GP-100 and various S&W Revolvers , the best comparison is with the L Frame 696 .
I had a 5" full lug GP that went down the road unfired by me due to the SCARY thin forcing cone...And normally, I shoot everything that passes through my hands. I'd stick to standard pressure 44 Special loads only in the GP myself, and save the hot rodded loads for the Redhawk.
"I think that the main reason for bulged and cracked forcing cones on S&W M24 and M624 is longer unsupported barrel protruding from the frame, to compensate for shorter cylinder:"
Interestingly, when Dave Clements was doing his .44 Sp conversions of GPs he used a custom longer cylinder and shortened the forcing cone. Another member commented this allowed him to maintain his guns could take a 250 gr bullet at 1200 fps. Also, the 10mm GP100 uses a barrel with a thicker shank. Wonder why Ruger does not change over to the larger diameter for the .44's. Marc Morganti offers some conversions of Ruger .44's to a custom barrel with the larger shank and claims they can take loads approaching the .44 Mag.
Interestingly, when Dave Clements was doing his .44 Sp conversions of GPs he used a custom longer cylinder and shortened the forcing cone. Another member commented this allowed him to maintain his guns could take a 250 gr bullet at 1200 fps. Also, the 10mm GP100 uses a barrel with a thicker shank. Wonder why Ruger does not change over to the larger diameter for the .44's. Marc Morganti offers some conversions of Ruger .44's to a custom barrel with the larger shank and claims they can take loads approaching the .44 Mag.
According to post quoted and linked her https://www.rugerforum.com/threads/...omething-new-and-what-we-could-expect.298775/ , Ruger did change barrel thread on GP100 10mm Auto. It's now 11/16", trifle larger than even on S&W N-frame. Could be that they realized problem with 44 Special on GP100 you and BULL'S-EYE mentioned. That will open possibility in GP100 for anything up to even 45 Colt and 45 ACP. If Ruger makes 10mm and 45 same way as they made 45 Colt/45 ACP Redhawk, that might create revolvers that could outsell any revolver they ever manufactured. I just hope that Ruger will make 41 Magnum with 6-7.5 inch barrel. I will keep one 357 Magnum S&W 686 and one 44 magnum Bisley, but my primary revolver will be longer barrel GP100 in 41 Magnum.
OP
Yankee_Papa
Bearcat
Jon406
Single-Sixer
For those wanting to learn about the 6 O'clock forcing cone cracks you can read about it here....
Senior product engineer Richard L Baker used to work for Ruger prior to his going over to Smith & Wesson
and possibly see why there is a similarity between the Ruger GP100 and the S&W mod 586/686 L frames
https://revolverguy.com/the-smith-wesson-l-frame-story/#more-8202
Senior product engineer Richard L Baker used to work for Ruger prior to his going over to Smith & Wesson
and possibly see why there is a similarity between the Ruger GP100 and the S&W mod 586/686 L frames
https://revolverguy.com/the-smith-wesson-l-frame-story/#more-8202
Longcarbine
Single-Sixer
The frame could take it but like everyone else I dont think the forcing cone would stand up to it for long.
OP
Yankee_Papa
Bearcat
Thanks. I learned something. It's now easy to understand why I should keep my loads for the 44 Special down and not venture into +P, and to use longer, heavier bullets. Before reading this article, people would simply tell me "buy a 44 Mag" but they never said why. Maybe they didn't know about the barrel flat and hoop strength and were just parroting "buy a 44 Mag". I don't listen to people who can't/won't tell me "why".
You told me why. Thank you.
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The Happy Kaboomer
Single-Sixer
It amazes me that people will a buy a gun then try to turn it into something it isn't. For those that do they deserve the results. I have 38's & 357's 44 spl's and 44 magnums......... Each is loaded to what it is. No more. No less. .If you need more horsepower.......GET A BIGGER GUN.
BTW My standard 44 special load is my cast 250 gr bullet pushed by 7.5 grs. of Unique.
BTW My standard 44 special load is my cast 250 gr bullet pushed by 7.5 grs. of Unique.
There is a You Tube Video on the GP100 .44 Special there are loads shared there that are a tad warmer then the stock .44 Special Loads in a reloading Manual. I do agree you need to stay within the limits set in pressure. I do know that some Ruger Blackhawk only loads do exist with .45LC but I am not sure with .44 Special. These Ruger GP100 .44 Special's the retail on them is not cheap so why take a chance in a investment like this. I would suggest in the long run if you want to run warmer loadings in .44 Special then use such loads in a .44 Magnum Revolver!
How is that not a hot-rodded load? Is that in any reloading manual of recent vintage?
My Speer Reloading manual number 13 lists the top end load on cast SWC 250gr as 6.9gr. of Unique. This load is quite a bit above that.
I know that as the Skeeter load, IIRC. But has it ever been published anywhere as a SAAMI standard pressure load for 44SPC?
And I'm not trying to chastise you, or say you should stop. I'd really like to know. Because I have one of these Rugers, and if that is a published SAAMI standard load, then I'd like to use it. As it is, I've only used it in a Blackhawk 44SPC. And that sparingly.
NikA
Hunter
Pretty sure 7.5gr Unique under a 240-250gr SWC has always been above SAAMI max pressure of 14ksi. My older Lyman cast bullet handbook puts the max at 7.0gr, which is generally where I load my 44 Special loads.
md8232
Bearcat
If Elmer didn't try turning his Smith's into something they weren't, we wouldn't have the 44 magnum.
md8232
Bearcat
Good point. I have 3 GP100's in Gods caliber. Just took a good look, and I'm glad I'm using the standard loads.
Yes.... But that experimentation has already been done. We 'have' the .44 Magnum now. We have the .454 Casull, the .460, the .500. There is no need to push much past the boundaries of established cartridges. Even my favorite cartridge the .45 Colt, I don't see the need for Ruger Only Loads any longer since the .454 Casull is readily available if you really want to go there. Yes, I'll push the .45 Colt 'a little' with Tier 2 loads, but not to the extreme edge of Tier 3 (ROLs) .... Bottom line, I really do agree with the statement "get a bigger gun". They are commercially available, buy them, use them.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2018
- Messages
- 854
......& he blew up every one getting there. He did the work so we don't have to.
I may be wrong, but the only guns I recall him blowing up was when hot loading .45 Colt Single Actions, which drove him to the .44 Special and eventually to the Keith load. But yes, "he did do the work, so we don't have to" .
Biggfoot44
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2009
- Messages
- 829
He did refer to the.38-44 load blowing up Colt I Frames , but Elmer never said that HE did it.
OP
Yankee_Papa
Bearcat
OP here. It's obvious that you didn't see my post on June 13th. My load is lighter than yours.
