OM .357 Blackhawk FT frame

[Joey]

I bought this on Gunbroker a couple weeks ago and just received it. An old model Blackhawk flat top cylinder frame. Has an interesting backstory. First the pictures.

 

[BULL'S-EYE]

Exactly HOW did you manage to purchase a serialized main frame on eBay?

 

[Joey]

The frame is in better shape than I thought from the pictures!
Now the backstory. And this is for real, not out of Joey's Book of Tall Tales.

I saw this listed on GB, and decided to purchase it. I emailed the seller to be sure it had not been involved in a high pressure incident before bidding. Mine was the only bid. My curiosity got the best of me. As a lover of history I had to find out the story on this frame. I gave the guy a call. As it is now in my possession, I can share this story with you.

His dad bought this flat top new in 1959. He carried it on hunting and fishing trips, and during the time he had it, he put maybe a box of shells thru it. He died, leaving all his firearms to his son, the seller. While he had it he put maybe 20 rounds thru it. He is apparently getting up in age and doesn't go to the range anymore, so he decided to sell the guns. Said he tried to list them on GB, but wasn't allowed to because he wasn't a FFL holder. So he does the next best logical thing, at least to him. He parts them out and sells all the parts allowable on ebay! When he told me this, it was all I could do to hold my composure and ask him if he had any other parts left for this frame. No, he sold them all a coupla years ago, all he had left were some Browning shotgun parts! When he told me this, I about fainted!! Again holding my composure, I asked him for his ebay handle, but I can't find it on ebay.

There is no telling what this guy parted out!!! I realize they are his property and he is free to do what he wants with them, but what a loss!!!!

My plans are to restore this Flat Top as close to original as possible. I have a xr3 gf, a cylinder and a pre-inc (I hope) barrel on the way. If all the mechanical parts are the same, I should have this part taken care of. The rear sight and original hard rubber grips are proving a bit difficult. It will be a while before I need them, as the initial build will take a while. And then it will have to be re-blued. I realize that all parts may not be original to this era, such as the cylinder, base pin and ejector rod/housing, but at least it will be together again. I also realize that the value as a refurb won't be much, but what the hey! Just to hear this fine old piece roar again will be worth it!

My plans are to make this a build thread if any one is interested. May be a coupla weeks as all the parts are dribbling in. But I look forward to it.

Thanks for all the help I have already received from some members of this community that I PM'ed for advice and parts. I did not want to post this until I had the frame in my old hands. Stay tuned.

 

[Joey]

Exactly HOW did you manage to purchase a serialized main frame on eBay?

Good point, BE, It was actually bought on GB. Changed in text above. Thanks man.

 

[Johnnu2]

Just a suggestion, but if you are able, I'd advise re-creating it as a .44 Mag OM FT if that 357 frame isn't too "small"...(?)
Assume you a procuring need part thru our forum brothers...?
Anxious to see the resurrection.
GOOD LUCK,
J.

 

[Joey]

Just a suggestion, but if you are able, I'd advise re-creating it as a .44 Mag OM FT if that 357 frame isn't too "small"...(?)
Assume you a procuring need part thru our forum brothers...?
Anxious to see the resurrection.
GOOD LUCK,
J.

Yes, all I can thru the forum.
I thought about a .41 special conversion, but kinda hate to do that to an OM flat top. Only about 43,000 made during it's run, don't know how many of the 1959 era were built. They are getting rare as the hair on my head!

 

[Joey]

The gf came in yesterday, couldn’t help myself. Had to mount it and temporary in a takeoff barrel I had just to see what it was going to look like. The gf came with main spring assembly installed, no easy task removing it….

 

[needsmostuff]

I think 41 spl. would be da bomb.
And who cares how rare it was,,,,,,,, It's never gonna be that again.
Make it what you want it to be!

 

[Joey]

I think 41 spl. would be da bomb.
And who cares how rare it was,,,,,,,, It's never gonna be that again.
Make it what you want it to be!

I have an OM .41 mag 4 5/8" barrel in my bag of goodies. Planning on converting one, if I can find a "truck gun". I have one that I had to do quite a bit of work to, has a set of stags that I bought from jusbadd on it. Looks like an old gun fighter's gun, except for the sights.......

 

[eveled]

I think 41 spl. would be da bomb.
And who cares how rare it was,,,,,,,, It's never gonna be that again.
Make it what you want it to be!

I agree.

 

[BoggusDeal]

I may have what you’re looking for. I’ll email pics later.

I have an OM .41 mag 4 5/8" barrel in my bag of goodies. Planning on converting one, if I can find a "truck gun". I have one that I had to do quite a bit of work to, has a set of stags that I bought from jusbadd on it. Looks like an old gun fighter's gun, except for the sights.......

 

[DGW1949]

A .41 mag cylinder will not fit a .357 frame, nor can it be made to. You may get a smith to convert an OM .357 cylinder to .41 Mag but I'd make sure before spending any money on the conversion....just sayin'.

DGW

 

[BoggusDeal]

A .41 mag cylinder will not fit a .357 frame, nor can it be made to. You may get a smith to convert an OM .357 cylinder to .41 Mag but I'd make sure before spending any money on the conversion....just sayin'.

DGW

He didn’t say anything about a .41 mag cylinder in a .357 frame.

 

[Joey]

I may have what you're looking for. I'll email pics later.

OK, I would like to see it.

 

[DGW1949]

He didn't say anything about a .41 mag cylinder in a .357 frame.

Agreed....There had already been 44Mag and .41 conversions mentioned within the same thread though, so I was "just sayin"...If my added info is useless to the OP, he will know it, but thanks for chiming in.

DGW

 

[Joey]

A .41 mag cylinder will not fit a .357 frame, nor can it be made to. You may get a smith to convert an OM .357 cylinder to .41 Mag but I'd make sure before spending any money on the conversion....just sayin'.

DGW

An OM .357 cylinder can be bored to .41. I would not make it a mag, but a .41 special. The OM .357 is built on a mid-frame. may not work out for full blown .41 mag. Or I would let you shoot it first, just give me time to get far, far away............

 

[Joey]

Another conversion that interests me. A new model .357 cylinder can be fitted to a .41 OM frame. Convert 2 NM .357 cylinders to .41 mag and .41 special. I have an OM .41 mag, re-barreled. Has a NM barrel on it. A member posted some pics of this conversion. May be cheaper than converting a .357. They have to turn the .41 barrel down to make it fit the .357 frame, which involves removing the front sight. Or take an OM 6 5/8 .41 barrel and cut it down to 4 5/8, recrown and fit a front sight. I have both lengths, There are still a few 'smiths that does quality work and conversions.

 

[Wounded Knee Floyd]

If you still need some parts, I have an original sight and the steel ejector rod housing.

 

[G2]

I have been looking for a rear sight, have one but can't seem to locate it.

I have your barrel set aside… PM sent.

OM 357 flattop can be made to be a 41 Special, this one is getting close to being finished. Cylinder has been re-bored to 41S and barrel is 41 caliber.

….and then there is this one that was a 357 OM flattop converted to 41 CAL. ,,, Convertible,,, 41Special & 41 Magnum.

 

[Joey]

Thanks for posting these, G2. It was you I was referring to. The .41 mag/.41 spec are 2 NM .357 cylinders, I think.

Now I see it is a .357. I thought it was a 41 om, You had the .357 removed from main frame and .41 marked. What threw me off.

 

[Joey]

Who made the base pin for the convertible? Haven't seen one like it, pretty cool.

 

[G2]

This was conceived by fellow Member Aggie01, made by Harton.
It has a Power Custom Keith #5 grip frame it was never specified the maker of the base pin, I think it is most likely Belt Mountain Keith #5.

FYI; BeltMountain recently retired, the good news is he sold the company to Skinner Sights, I have heard there gearing up.

I watched this from the start and it inspired me to start mine, when it was offered up for sale, I jumped on it. Was going to sell the rodeo'd parts off then decided to do the 3.6" shorty, as shown in previous picture.

Here was the FS thread and it's got some good info in it.

Thread 'SOLD - Harton Midframe #5 OM Ruger .41 MAG/SPL'

Jun 28, 2022

I bought this from Aggie01 a couple of years back. It’s time for it to find a place in someone else’s safe. Rather than recreate the wheel, I have cut and pasted John’s description of the gun. He had it built, so he does a better job than I could.

“ Harton Custom Midframe #5 OM Ruger .41 MAG/SPL
Old Model mid frame Flattop
Power Custom #5 grip frame
David Clements OM lockwork w/ wide smooth trigger and Bisley hammer
Harton Colt style flutes and Black Powder bevels on both cylinders - cylinders are from NM Ruger midframes - they are a little longer than the OM cylinders
Front sight...

• princeout
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Sold/Expired Listings

• 

 

[G2]

This thread is when I first saw the gun, Aggie01 announces it’s on the way home, pictures by Alan Harton. Noticed today it was July 2015,,,, 10 years ago.

A

Thread 'Harton .41 MAG/SPL Ruger #5 OM flattop'

Jul 29, 2015

This example of the master's art has been a long time coming.
When we planned it, I could not think of a better platform for the .41 Bore. It's been a few years betwixt plan and execution, and I have not thought of a better.
Slated to come home next week. (Pics by Alan)
Ruger Old Model .357 (Mid frame) flattop.
Clements #5 parts incl hammer, trigger and I believe even the backstrap (I picked it up as a project with the #5 components bundled)
The SN even starts with 41.
Alan Siegrist rebored the original barrel, then Alan (Harton) trimmed it back to 5.5", and added one of my front sight...

• Aggie01
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Ruger Single Action & Double Action Revolvers

 

[Joey]

Everything about this gun is cool, from the Bisley gf to the front sight/ramp, and let's not leave out the serial #! A real beauty!
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Joey . . . an observation, correct me if I'm wrong.

You have a cylinder frame marked RUGER .357 CAL. BLACKHAWK and bearing what we assume is the original serial number. If you were to request a "letter" from Ruger on that serial number (a good idea) they would almost certainly advise you of when the gun was shipped and its original configuration. As far as Ruger is concerned it's still that gun. If you restore it to its original configuration matching the "letter" you essentially have that gun, with a few parts replacements. If you use a barrel length matching the original description, all is good, and there'd be no possible hassles from the BATFEIEIO upon a further transfer via an FFL holder. I assume that's how you purchased the frame. Looks to me like a perfect "restoration" of a neat old gun. All JMHO, of course.

FWIW, Bob's List shows 19540 right in the midst of all the other 4-5/8" guns likely shipped in February of 1959. It could be a Type 2 or a Type 3 depending on the ejector rod housing configuration.

Wonderful project. Yes, please keep us advised on your progress.

 

[Joey]

Joey . . . an observation, correct me if I'm wrong.

You have a cylinder frame marked RUGER .357 CAL. BLACKHAWK and bearing what we assume is the original serial number. If you were to request a "letter" from Ruger on that serial number (a good idea) they would almost certainly advise you of when the gun was shipped and its original configuration. As far as Ruger is concerned it's still that gun. If you restore it to its original configuration matching the "letter" you essentially have that gun, with a few parts replacements. If you use a barrel length matching the original description, all is good, and there'd be no possible hassles from the BATFEIEIO upon a further transfer via an FFL holder. I assume that's how you purchased the frame. Looks to me like a perfect "restoration" of a neat old gun. All JMHO, of course.

Wonderful project. Yes, please keep us advised on your progress.

Hey, Ale

I plan on getting a letter from Ruger. I called Linda in Archives Before purchase, she confirmed the serial #, ship date as 1959 to a hdw co, in Cali. Confirmed the 4 5/8" barrel, hard rubber grips, xr3 gf, and of course caliber. I have 3 other Rugers I need to get letters on, will send them in at the same time.

Thanks for the support. Cylinder is due today. A few more parts and the real work begins!

Joey

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Hey, Ale

I plan on getting a letter from Ruger. I called Linda in Archives Before purchase, she confirmed the serial #, ship date as 1959 to a hdw co, in Cali. Confirmed the 4 5/8" barrel, hard rubber grips, xr3 gf, and of course caliber. I have 3 other Rugers I need to get letters on, will send them in at the same time.

Thanks for the support. Cylinder is due today. A few more parts and the real work begins!

Joey

Great! I edited in a few more facts after you quoted me, but it looks like we're on the same page.

 

[Joey]

I believe it is a type 3, as far as my studying has gotten me. I think the changes from 2 to 3 happened in '57-'58. If anyone else has better info than me, please share. Thanks again Ale. What I like about this forum, people go out of their way to help! And it is greatly appreciated.

Joey

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Bob's List shows a scattering of Type 2's among the Type 3's at that particular time in the serial number list. This reflects the time period when the ejector rod housings were being changed from the Type 2 to the Type 3 and there's a good chance some of each were pulled out of the "parts bin" at assembly. No big deal as far as Ruger was concerned, and I doubt the factory records will reveal which was used on any particular gun. So I guess it really doesn't matter which you use unless you have a preference for "bragging rights". The TYpe 3's begin to show up around serial nimber 17000 and the Type 2's are essentially gone by 19200.

Inasmuch as these housings are what Bob called "screwdriver variations" and could be swapped out by owners it's rather a moot point for all practical purposes. Altogether your call. I wouldn't argue with either choice.

 

[Joey]

I would much rather have the steel housing, it wears better than the aluminium. But beggars can't be choosers!