Why the "special" cartridge in a magnum?

[Stantheman1986]

Interesting you should mention the old 38/44 loads. I'm always on the lookout for an S&W .38 Spl. Heavy Duty or Outdoorsman. The 38/44 was a good round but not quite loaded to .357 Magnum Pressure. Yhe only guns considered safe with those loads were the two I mentioned already plus the Colt SAA Army, and the heavy dutt Colt .38s in the very large frame Colt double action. Sorry, I forget the proper name.
I have one Outdoorsman that I got lucky in finding. I had another back in the 1950s that I used to kill a Black Bear on Labor Day weekend, 1959. I sold that one way back then so I could take a pretty girl dancing. Big mistake. I should have kept the gun.
Paul B.

I'd love to find a 38/44 HD, they're neat. A big N Frame fixed sight chambered for .38 Special is just something I'd love to own. I have a P&R'd Highway Patrolman that's cool but it's not 38-44 HD cool

 

[contender]

RClark,, you overlooked a very important part of my post;

"With SOME powder/primer/bullet combinations,, the potential exists for a pressure spike."

I didn't think I had to repeat myself in every comment.

Trail Boss was developed as a means of shooting light loads & avoiding pressure spikes.

 

[TXTad]

Never have found 'any' .44 Special or .44 Mag range brass. Nor does anyone sell that around here. I've never used .357 or .44 anything range brass. No one leaves them on the table . That said over on StarLineBrass the cost of new brass is the same. I've only used 'new' brass.

I've found more 8mm Kurz on the range than I have found .44 Special or Magnum.

 

[TXTad]

I used to shoot at lot of .38 and .44 Special in my Magnums, but after cleaning many carbon rings, I only shoot Magnum cases in my Magnums and Special cases in my Specials. The carbon rings really aren't a problem usually, but since I have plenty of guns chambered for each, I have just decided to not deal with it. Some of my Magnum loads are full power, and others are at or just above Special levels, but they're all in Magnum brass.

I've never seen a big difference in the prices between Specials and Magnums, so brass cost has never been a big factor either.

 

[the_leper_colony]

I've found more 8mm Kurz on the range than I have found .44 Special or Magnum.

The range brass I find myself is usually 9mm, .40S&W, .45acp, and .380 - a month or so back, I came home from the range with 450 9mm cases, about 200 40s (all with the same headstamp), and about 50 each of .45 & .380 (plus one 10mm case :^). But I also buy range brass; the seller is commonly some guy who has a connection to a range, gets all or most of their spent brass, cleans & sorts it, and sells it at gun shows or online. And that's where I get .44 range brass - I pay for it, with the magnum brass usually costing twice as much as the .44 Special cases.

As always YMMV, FWIW, IMHO, etc., etc.

 

[TXTad]

The range brass I find myself is usually 9mm, .40S&W, .45acp, and .380 - a month or so back, I came home from the range with 450 9mm cases, about 200 40s (all with the same headstamp), and about 50 each of .45 & .380 (plus one 10mm case :^). But I also buy range brass; the seller is commonly some guy who has a connection to a range, gets all or most of their spent brass, cleans & sorts it, and sells it at gun shows or online. And that's where I get .44 range brass - I pay for it, with the magnum brass usually costing twice as much as the .44 Special cases.

As always YMMV, FWIW, IMHO, etc., etc.

One of my favorite range finds, actually public land shooting area, was about 2 or 3 hundred .38 Special cases headstamped FC 57. This was the late 90s, so they were already 40 years old then. I think they were not reloads, so someone had been sitting on a stash for a while, or they inherited it. They just were laying on the ground in a pile, so someone wasn't a reloader and just left them for the next guy.

 

[Rclark]

I didn't think I had to repeat myself in every comment.

Some times we have to, lol . No disrespect intended or implied BTW. I just push back sometimes because I read comments paraphased ... "Only use loads in the .44 Magnum that are listed for the .44 Mag" or "may cause pressure spikes", etc. ... Which may scare off potential re-loaders.... Ignoring that it is perfectly acceptable to use the .44 Special tables as well for the .44 Mag cartridge which extend the versatility of the Magnum Cartridge whether .357 or .44. Not everyone wants to shoot .44 or .357 Magnum at +1300fps velocities all the time.

 

[Paul B]

I'd love to find a 38/44 HD, they're neat. A big N Frame fixed sight chambered for .38 Special is just something I'd love to own. I have a P&R'd Highway Patrolman that's cool but it's not 38-44 HD cool

Don't short change yourself by looking only for the HD. That Outdoorssmans is one slick firearm. My is old enought that it has the old S&W long action as did my first one. S&W went to a "short" action for the targert shooter. My M28 has the short action and it's OK . Dunno who worked over my M27 but it has an action to die for.
Paul B.

 

[GasGuzzler]

I have no idea. I also don't know why people load 125 grain .357, use Unique or Trail Boss for anything, or pay a premium for a .44 Special only revolver. But I don't care really since it's their choice. They call some kids special too.

I have no need for a .44 Magnum either since it's really a .429 magnum that can be attained from a .45 Colt ... that has no Special version but can still shoot slowly ... just not with Trail Boss for this guy.

 

[coach]

Since I don't reload .38 is cheaper and easy to shoot at the range out to 25 yards. I do shoot .357 and have never had trouble with the ring causing problems with extraction. But I keep the cylinders clean. Even my house guns have .38 or +p hp in them for the possibility of over penetration and the loudness if I have to touch one off inside.

 

[375supermag]

I never shoot Special ĺoads in my Magnum revolvers.
I have multiple revolvers in .38Spl and .44Spl and shòot them regularly.
I also have multiple revolvers in .357Mag, .41Mag and .44Mag and they have never been fired with anything other than Magnum size brass.

Since I don't reload .38 is cheaper and easy to shoot at the range out to 25 yards. I do shoot .357 and have never had trouble with the ring causing problems with extraction. But I keep the cylinders clean. Even my house guns have .38 or +p hp in them for the possibility of over penetration and the loudness if I have to touch one off inside.

 

[Rclark]

have no idea. I also don't know why people load 125 grain .357, use Unique or Trail Boss for anything, or pay a premium for a .44 Special only revolver. But I don't care really since it's their choice. They call some kids special too.

LOL, Sounds like you have definite opinions like the rest of us . I am (obviously), a .45 Colt guy myself. Do everything that needs doing in the big bores. But .357, .44 Specials, 22, and my loadable .22s, the .32 H&R Magnum cartridges/revolvers do have their place, depending on what you are using them for.

 

[gnappi]

I never shoot Special ĺoads in my Magnum revolvers.
I have multiple revolvers in .38Spl and .44Spl and shòot them regularly.
I also have multiple revolvers in .357Mag, .41Mag and .44Mag and they have never been fired with anything other than Magnum size brass.

It seems like being able to shoot more than one caliber in a revolver is a powerful reason for some to buy but not me.

I'd really like a BFR or Freedom Arms in .45 Colt but they're mostly available in .454 Casull so it's a no buy for me. My experiences using short calibers in a magnum never proved to be worth owning twice the brass, loss of accuracy, and extra cleaning chore.

 

[contender]

When it comes to the .38 spl in a .357 magnum,, long ag0, the .357 magnum was "powerful" to many,, but the .38 spl was sedate. Throw in the fact that .38 spl ammo was everywhere, as was brass. Why? Because it was THE ammo used by LEO's. Tons & tons of cheap easy brass & ammo abounded.
Just like the .9mm is today.

Having options,, and cost have always been attractive to average people.

 

[woodperson]

Before reloading for the .357 I did shoot a lot of .38 special in mine. Now I just load the long cases down. I do not care if somebody ridicules my 125 grain load. It shoots very straight and makes a hole all the way though the paper. What more do I need? I wish I could get some more Trail Boss. But I have to admit that my current load with Titegroup is more accurate than the Trail Boss loads I was shooting.

 

[Laserbait]

I have no idea. I also don't know why people load 125 grain .357, use Unique or Trail Boss for anything, or pay a premium for a .44 Special only revolver. But I don't care really since it's their choice. They call some kids special too.

I have no need for a .44 Magnum either since it's really a .429 magnum that can be attained from a .45 Colt ... that has no Special version but can still shoot slowly ... just not with Trail Boss for this guy.

LOL, the vast majority of my 357 ammo that I have loaded here is 125 grain, using 6 grains of win231. It's super accurate, and bullets are cheaper than the 158 grain variety.

That said, I also have a lot of 44 Mag revolvers, one 44 Special only revolver (GP100), and nothing 45 Colt only. I do have several 454 Casull revolvers if I ever need more "ooomph" than 44 Mag provides.

On a whim, I loaded up 18 .480 Ruger with 400 grain Speer Hot Core and 5.5 of Trail Boss, and that was hilarious. You could literally watch the bullets rainbow trajectory out to 50ish yards. But, this was also back when my vision was far better than what it is now. Sigh.


Reloading is fun!

 

[GasGuzzler]

So you load and shoot .357 but don't cast. That will eventually not end well. I myself choose to shoot something else if I don't think I can load a spec cartridge.

 

[Laserbait]

So you load and shoot .357 but don't cast. That will eventually not end well.

How so? Do you make your own gunpowder? Primers? Brass?

I myself choose to shoot something else if I don't think I can load a spec cartridge.

I shoot most everything, even ones that I don't load for (22LR, 22 Mag, 12 ga). I just make sure to have adequate reserves, and don't wait to the last minute to buy ammo/components.

 

[Onty]

Well, I'll throw in my measly thoughts here.

If you reload,, and use .357 brass in a .357, and download it to .38 spl levels,, especially light target loads,, there is the potential for a pressure spike problem.
A small charge of powder,, in a revolver,, will lay the length of the case,, up to the base of the bullet. The primer will burn across the top of the powder,, instead of against the powder, With SOME powder/primer/bullet combinations,, the potential exists for a pressure spike.
In the dark ages of my handloading beginnings,, I used a fair amount of .38 Spl cases,, with a light target load, (Bullseye powder,) under a 148 grn WC bullet. An oldtimer,, who shot bullseye competition,, taught me to add a "filler" between the powder & the base of the bullet to get a safer & more consistent burn rate.

But using .38 spl ammo in a .357 chamber, or even a .44 Spl case in a .44 Mag,, can often cause the dreaded crud ring. Since I hate the amount of cleaning necessary to be able to easily shoot .357's or .44 Mags,, in those guns,, I load a normal charge in each caliber. I use my .38's in a .38 cal revolver, and 44 spls in a .44 spl gun.

But knowing I can USE other calibers in a Magnum,, if necessary,, I can appreciate the option. But generally, I don't reload very light loads in a magnum case to help prevent the potential pressure spike that might happen.

When I was shooting half scale silhouette (25, 50, 75, 100 m), using 357 Magnum, old dogs told me to forget 38 Special in 357. They gave me a load found very accurate in almost any 357. As matter of fact, when they purchase a new 357 revolver, they used noted load to test it's accuracy.

- 357 Magnum case
- Bullet lead SWC or TC 150-160 grains
- Primer WSP
- Powder Bullseye 5.2 grains

Here is the extract from Lyman 48-th Edition Reloading Handbook:

As you could see, load I listed for 150-160 grains is just tad more than starting loads. It is a nice load, and unless you are shooting it from one of those very light revolvers, it has mild recoil so you can shoot it all day long.

 

[varminter22]

I use Large Rifle primers for my 44 special in the TC, 50 rounds, Extreme spread 36 fps, SD 8, average 754 fps.

That thought had never crossed my mind as large pistol and large rifle primers are nominally different dimensions. A quick search found this:
Primer dimensions and tolerances

Primer Type	Height Min	Height Max	Diameter Min	Diameter Max
Small Rifle/Pistol	0.1150	0.1260	0.1745	0.1765
Large Rifle	0.1230	0.1360	0.2105	0.2130
Large Pistol	0.1150	0.1260	0.2100	0.2120

You've not encountered any issues with seating large rifle primers in small pistol primer pockets?

What is the advantage(s) of doing so?