Another new cartridge from Winchester

[9x19]

The things the .350 has going for it, if the AR crowd takes to it: can use a standard BCG and magazines in an AR (just like the .300AAC).

150gr at just over 2300 fps on Winchester's website, so not bad in factory loads, can maybe do better with hand-loads.

 

[grobin]

One of the biggest problems with the 350 is bullets. When I look in the Hornady manual there are loads for 30 different bullets, similar cartridges to the 350 show loads for 3. So likely the 350 will be very limited in bullet selection compared to the 300! From the information available Winchester may have As many as 3 new bullets for the 350.

Hornady has a 110gr at 2400fps as a not real hot load. Pretty similar to the factory Winchester. The ballistic coefficient will make a difference even at 200y.

 

[cas6969]

The .450 Bushmaster came out... and nobody really cared. It was over shadowed by the .450 SOCOM and the .50 Beowulf. It was pretty much DOA.


BUT NOW... 450 Bushmaster rifles are selling like hotcakes. In what? Bot actions and single shots. Selling to whom? Hunters in states that are allowing people to hunt with rifles, as long as they are straight walled cases of a minimum length. And that's your target market... and of course people who just like to buy new stuff. (the people who really keep the firearms industry going)

"Be careful of the man with only one gun, he'll put you out of business."

 

[rangerbob]

CMMG has already announced rifles and uppers for the 350 Legend. They use a special 5 and 10 round magazine. Winchester advertises that the 350 has a rebated rim, unlike the 223/5.56 which as a rim just slightly larger than the case just forward of the extractor groove. I examined photos of the cartridge on WW's web site and it appears that the 350 does have a rebated rim and the body of the case is slightly larger than a 223 case just forward of the extractor groove. If so using 223 brass will not work. Of course this is all guess work until the 350 dimensions are published by SAAMI or some factory 350 ammo is examined. I suspect this to be the case as CMMG has special mags for the round. I doubt that anything will be available until at least summer anyway. I am surely not going to pay $1300+ for a #1 so chambered, but I might build an upper if standard magazines work with the 350. Bob!! 8)

 

[grobin]

So far this is too much sound and fury signifying nothing. There are no real ballistics nor cartridge specs.
All we really know is the 350 is intended for use where straight wall cartridges have a legal advantage. It's for hunting deer sized game at 200y or less. What it turns out to be good for is TBD!

 

[mac66]

35 Rem ballistics in a straight walled cartridge opens up a lot of possibilities. CMMG is already offering an AR in 350L, I'm sure other uppers and barrels will follow.

Case length for the rimless 350L is 1.71" . Case length for the old rimmed 357 Maximum was 1.605

Don't forget that the 450 BM took off because it is legal in states where straight walled cartridges are legal for deer. In this case hunting is what drove the market. I'm sure the 350L will do as well. As for bullet selection, there are a lot of possibilities available in .357/.358, anything from pistol to rifle bullets.

 

[grobin]

Lyman & Hornady manuals list a hand full of bullets including cast. Factory loads appear to have at most 4 different bullets. May or not change after all how many different bullets do you need for deer.

 

[rangerbob]

Winchester reports that the 350 Legend is legal to hunt with in 47 states. I read a report on the CMMG site stating that the 350 does, in fact, use a rebated rim case because WW had to make the case thicker than the 223 case to maintain the high pressure that the round generates. So all those once fired 223 cases will not work to make 350's. My state of Louisiana says nothing about case design for primitive season, but mandates 35 caliber or larger and a single shot with an exposed hammer. Thousands of Handi Rifles have been sold in 35 Whelen, not mention, 357 Magnum, 44 magnum, 444, 45-70, and my 450 Marlin. I could see the Henry single shot in 350 Legend as a viable hunting rifle, as well as the Handi Rifle if it ever returns to the market. We'll see! Bob!! 8)

 

[mac66]

Winchester reports that the 350 Legend is legal to hunt with in 47 states. I read a report on the CMMG site stating that the 350 does, in fact, use a rebated rim case because WW had to make the case thicker than the 223 case to maintain the high pressure that the round generates. So all those once fired 223 cases will not work to make 350's. My state of Louisiana says nothing about case design for primitive season, but mandates 35 caliber or larger and a single shot with an exposed hammer. Thousands of Handi Rifles have been sold in 35 Whelen, not mention, 357 Magnum, 44 magnum, 444, 45-70, and my 450 Marlin. I could see the Henry single shot in 350 Legend as a viable hunting rifle, as well as the Handi Rifle if it ever returns to the market. We'll see! Bob!! 8)

There is a guy on one of my local forums who has made a wildcat out of 223 cases using .357 cal bullets. It is virtually identical to the 350L in case length and ballistics. He's been hunting with it in an AR15 for 3 years and is 5 for 5 on deer (he made one for his son as well). It remains to be seen if 223/556 cases can me used.

 

[SteelBlue]

...as well as the Handi Rifle if it ever returns to the market. We'll see! Bob!! 8)

They still make it:

 

[mac66]

Would be kinda cool in a Mini 350L

 

[rangerbob]

A Ruger semi auto, Mini 350 if you will, would make a fine woods rifle. 100 years ago it was called the model 8 Remington in 35 Remington. Ruger already uses a fairly heavy barrel on the Mini 30 and the bolt from a Mini 14 already fits the cartridge. Tweek the magazine a bit and go for it. And while you are at it, build the American Ranch rifle to match with the same magazine. Ruger, are you listening? Bob!! :wink:

 

[SteelBlue]

They don't pay much mind to what people ask for. Can't fault them for that, every time they come out with a new product people say: if only they made it in stainless, if only they made it in a Bisley, if only they made it in a 3 1/2" barrel...and then they just disappear. We had a guy post here a month ago lamenting that he was ready to buy THREE RedHawks but decided not to when Ruger introduced the shrouded barrel. When it was pointed out that Ruger was still offering unshrouded guns, he kinda disappeared from buying his three Redhawks. Bottom line: Ruger isn't going to listen to individual Christmas lists, they just do what they think is best, and that is generally a successful business model. Now....if they would just bring back they SR-762...

 

[mac66]

They don't pay much mind to what people ask for. Can't fault them for that, every time they come out with a new product people say: if only they made it in stainless, if only they made it in a Bisley, if only they made it in a 3 1/2" barrel...and then they just disappear. We had a guy post here a month ago lamenting that he was ready to buy THREE RedHawks but decided not to when Ruger introduced the shrouded barrel. When it was pointed out that Ruger was still offering unshrouded guns, he kinda disappeared from buying his three Redhawks. Bottom line: Ruger isn't going to listen to individual Christmas lists, they just do what they think is best, and that is generally a successful business model. Now....if they would just bring back they SR-762...

No doubt some of the reasons they don't come out with certain products is that it is difficult to support a thousand different products. Another is marketing. I believe they intend to come out with other calibers in their PCC but since they are selling all they can make there is no reason to yet. Once demand drops off, they bring out the next variation to spur sales.

I am frankly surprised Ruger hasn't come out with a Mini in 450 Bushmaster considering how popular that cartridge and rifle is. Not everybody who hunts want's a bolt action or AR15 in that caliber. They make a Mini in 300 Black Out and made one in 6.8mm for a time. A Mini in 350 Legend may offset the need for for one in 450 BM. On the other hand the price of a new Min14/30 borders on the ridicules. You can buy a bolt gun or AR upper for a lot less.

 

[SteelBlue]

Agree that the PCC appears to have been designed for different cartridges from the outset: detachable barrel, different magazine inserts, and bolt that can have different weight inserts & bolt faces. And you can be sure if they offer it in a 45 ACP there will be impassioned pleas for a .40 cal with walnut stock from those who will never buy one.

 

[rangerbob]

CVA has added the 350 Legend to their list of calibers for their SCOUT single shot rifle line. Traditions has listed the 35 Remington and the 35 Whelen to their single shot rifle line. Neither are straight wall, can the 350 Legend be far behind since they already make 35 caliber barrels? Yes, I've been surfing new products at Sports South website. Bob!!

 

[GAO LLC]

The Winchester 350 Legend ~ A legend invented

On youtube.

 

[mac66]

Well, I did a little research. The 350 Legend is not listed at SAAMI yet, but I'm sure WW is working on that. There is a wildcat round called the 357 Max AR that is probably very close to being the same as the 350 Legend. AR barrels are available for that round and it uses the standard AR magazine. This may turn out to be an interesting cartridge if the factory ammo is priced right and if one can use either modified(expanded) 223 brass or Starline unformed basic new brass. Bob!!

Just accepted by SAAMI

https://www.nssf.org/saami-announces-acceptance-350-legend-cartridge/

 

[t-reg]

A Ruger semi auto, Mini 350 if you will, would make a fine woods rifle. 100 years ago it was called the model 8 Remington in 35 Remington. Ruger already uses a fairly heavy barrel on the Mini 30 and the bolt from a Mini 14 already fits the cartridge. Tweek the magazine a bit and go for it. And while you are at it, build the American Ranch rifle to match with the same magazine. Ruger, are you listening? Bob!! :wink:

A Mini 350 was my first thought.

Would be a great rifle!

 

[COSteve]

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