Woods, Trail, and Field

[bcgunworks]

Woods, Trail, and Field
When hunting pigs and deer in the woods you are often faced with a quick shot opportunity or when hunting hogs sometimes you have multiple targets to engage. Our answer to that is the long slide 10mm with mini red dot.
Here you have a Rock Island 10mm that has been customized with a Burris FF3, new crown, reliability work, trigger work, and cerakote.
For that hike through the woods you need a capable handgun that carries nicely and will give you enough punch to deal with dangers on the trail as well as grant you the accuracy for a chance shot on game. For that we have the Packing Ruger.
The Packing Ruger is a GP100 cut back to 3” with an in house made fiber optic front sight held in a Novak dovetail. The barrel has been crowned to 11 degrees, chamber mouths have duty bevels, the barrel has been slab sided and fluted, and trigger work has been done. The customer will be adding his grips of choice!
And when you goal is to sit a food plot or small field where you may have to stretch your shots beyond “normal” handgun ranges we have the Franken-Ruger.
This Franken-Ruger started as a standard GP100. We added our barrel and shroud system with a 12 5/8’ barrel, Harrell brake, Weigand base, trigger and action work, as well as cerakote. The Franken-Ruger weighs in at 53oz. A factory 6” Gp100 weighs in at 45oz.
More info can be found at www.baysidecustomgunworks.com and on our Facebook page. Numerous videos are available!

 

[CraigC]

And when you goal is to sit a food plot or small field where you may have to stretch your shots beyond “normal” handgun ranges we have the Franken-Ruger.
This Franken-Ruger started as a standard GP100. We added our barrel and shroud system with a 12 5/8’ barrel, Harrell brake, Weigand base, trigger and action work, as well as cerakote. The Franken-Ruger weighs in at 53oz.

At 52oz, a .454 or .480 Super Redhawk is not only capable of taking any game on planet earth but they have roughly double the .357's effective range on deer. They also don't need a sling or a portable shooting bench to be useful. You can also order any of a number of shoulder rigs for them.

Putting a 12" barrel on a .357 doesn't make it anything more than what it is, still just a .357.

 

[Jim Puke]

At 52oz, a .454 or .480 Super Redhawk is not only capable of taking any game on planet earth but they have roughly double the .357's effective range on deer

I would like to see YOU make the shot, with either the 454 or 480, at twice the effective range of that Franken-Ruger .357.

Talk and bluster are cheap.

 

[bcgunworks]

And when you goal is to sit a food plot or small field where you may have to stretch your shots beyond “normal” handgun ranges we have the Franken-Ruger.
This Franken-Ruger started as a standard GP100. We added our barrel and shroud system with a 12 5/8’ barrel, Harrell brake, Weigand base, trigger and action work, as well as cerakote. The Franken-Ruger weighs in at 53oz.

At 52oz, a .454 or .480 Super Redhawk is not only capable of taking any game on planet earth but they have roughly double the .357's effective range on deer. They also don't need a sling or a portable shooting bench to be useful. You can also order any of a number of shoulder rigs for them.

Putting a 12" barrel on a .357 doesn't make it anything more than what it is, still just a .357.

It is apparent through many threads which you post in....that if you don't like something you attack it.

That's fine...if you can do better let's see it.

Pounding away at a key board isn't going to help you prove anything...if you can do better take out your video camera and let's see it....if you can make a better gun go do it. If not calm your keyboard warrior self.

I want to see your custom gun you built....let's see your machine skills...let's see you shoot...
Won't post any of that? Well poo....I guess we'll have to just take you as an expert...

The 357 version has taken white tail to 220 yards....cleanly...and quickly...its called shot placement.
It has taken vermin to almost 400...

I'm sure the RedHawks will do farther but all the strait wall handgun bullets start getting real close together in performance as you stretch the distance..

 

[bcgunworks]

At 52oz, a .454 or .480 Super Redhawk is not only capable of taking any game on planet earth but they have roughly double the .357's effective range on deer

I would like to see YOU make the shot, with either the 454 or 480, at twice the effective range of that Franken-Ruger .357.

Talk and bluster are cheap.

You must have missed it....it's not just talk...that's a self proclaimed expert! Bow down and respect that fools word! :roll:

 

[Ruger1441]

I really like the packing Ruger. Nice work

 

[CraigC]

I would like to see YOU make the shot, with either the 454 or 480, at twice the effective range of that Franken-Ruger .357.

Talk and bluster are cheap.

On paper? Or steel? We're not talking about targets and I'm not talking about stunts. The OP referred to shooting across a food plot. The generally accepted view of the .357 is that it's a 50-75yd cartridge on deer and at that, it's the bare minimum. Beyond that, you're toying with disaster and there are no awards presented for wounded game. In a rifle, a little more. Taking 200yd pot shots at game with a .357Mag is not going to win you any popularity contests. Shot placement doesn't make up for a lack of effectiveness. The .454 and .480 are good to 150yds in good hands and it is within that context that I posted the above.

It is apparent through many threads which you post in....that if you don't like something you attack it.

Grow up. I have made no personal attacks against you. I'm just not buying what you're selling. I have questioned what you have posted about handgun hunting and the utility of these concoctions you create. I post valid criticisms of your work and you start getting defensive and slinging insults. Can you not counter my points without getting defensive?

I want to see your custom gun you built....let's see your machine skills...let's see you shoot...
Won't post any of that? Well poo....I guess we'll have to just take you as an expert...

I have to build a better gun to be critical of yours? Where did you learn that logic? That's about as relevant as "my dad can beat up your dad" rhetoric.

Sorry but I actually wanted to make some money. So I can afford to have real gunsmiths build real customs.

My abilities are not in question, although again, that's a nice attempt to deflect the discussion.

...all the strait wall handgun bullets start getting real close together in performance as you stretch the distance..

This is utter nonsense. Where did you learn this? So at 200yds a 260gr .45 is the same as a 125gr .357? Further evidence that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

How long have YOU been at this? I'm no expert but I've been shooting big bores for 25yrs and handgun hunting since childhood. What qualifies you as an expert?

PS, are we talking about George Strait, Dire Straits or the Bering Strait???

 

[CraigC]

And you've never explained how this "floating barrel" concept works on a revolver. You just got defensive and snippy.

 

[bcgunworks]

I would like to see YOU make the shot, with either the 454 or 480, at twice the effective range of that Franken-Ruger .357.

Talk and bluster are cheap.

On paper? Or steel? We're not talking about targets and I'm not talking about stunts. The OP referred to shooting across a food plot. The generally accepted view of the .357 is that it's a 50-75yd cartridge on deer and at that, it's the bare minimum. Beyond that, you're toying with disaster and there are no awards presented for wounded game. In a rifle, a little more. Taking 200yd pot shots at game with a .357Mag is not going to win you any popularity contests. Shot placement doesn't make up for a lack of effectiveness. The .454 and .480 are good to 150yds in good hands and it is within that context that I posted the above.

It is apparent through many threads which you post in....that if you don't like something you attack it.

Grow up. I have made no personal attacks against you. I'm just not buying what you're selling. I have questioned what you have posted about handgun hunting and the utility of these concoctions you create. I post valid criticisms of your work and you start getting defensive and slinging insults. Can you not counter my points without getting defensive?

I want to see your custom gun you built....let's see your machine skills...let's see you shoot...
Won't post any of that? Well poo....I guess we'll have to just take you as an expert...

I have to build a better gun to be critical of yours? Where did you learn that logic? That's about as relevant as "my dad can beat up your dad" rhetoric.

Sorry but I actually wanted to make some money. So I can afford to have real gunsmiths build real customs.

My abilities are not in question, although again, that's a nice attempt to deflect the discussion.

...all the strait wall handgun bullets start getting real close together in performance as you stretch the distance..

This is utter nonsense. Where did you learn this? So at 200yds a 260gr .45 is the same as a 125gr .357? Further evidence that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

How long have YOU been at this? I'm no expert but I've been shooting big bores for 25yrs and handgun hunting since childhood. What qualifies you as an expert?

PS, are we talking about George Strait, Dire Straits or the Bering Strait???

Once again nothing to qualify your experience. Just "I have done this for x years"

There are plenty of videos to prove it works....plenty of customers posting around the web with the same results....
I need to prove nothing to you. Because frankly....I know exactly what kind of child I am dealing with...

When your ready to post your own experience to qualify you as anything besides a keyboard warrior maybe more will listen to you. So far you have done nothing but peck at keys.

So when your ready to qualify anything you have said with something besides Google foo go ahead...



And for FYI. 220 yard doe was with a 180 LHP GC....

 

[bcgunworks]

And you've never explained how this "floating barrel" concept works on a revolver. You just got defensive and snippy.

Nope...I told you...but you told me it was not true and bs....guess it's not bs since we're shooting sub Moa groups all the way to 500 yards...do that consistently with your SRH.

To help you out craigc the expert on the world:

By eliminating all the stress on the barrel and removing the ejector rods, sights, under lug, and so on we have a more harmonically sound platform.

The optimal outer dia for barrel for each caliber was found.

The shroud gives you a stable place to rest the gun that does not change point of impact.

The proof this works is out there. And it's mounting up....not much point in arguing it anymore.

 

[CraigC]

You don't 'have' to prove anything to anybody but it's very interesting that you wouldn't. You're trying to make your niche but you provide nothing to support it. If you did have the knowledge and experience to support this nonsense, you would've put me in my place. You don't, so you didn't. Shooting steel plates quantifies your statements? One dead doe at 200yds proves what, exactly? Do you know that when S&W started their "200yd club" nonsense when the .460S&W made its debut they were hammered by handgun hunters for promoting such stunts? And you think the .357Mag is a proper 200yd deer cartridge? Got any authorities that will support your claims? No but every one I know of will refute your nonsense.

So you, unknown gunsmith of questionable background and limited ability, comes in telling us that everything we believe is untrue. That the droves of handgun hunters who preceded you came to wrong conclusion about the .357Mag cartridge. Are you Doug Wesson reincarnated? Are bears next on the agenda?

But no, unlike you, I don't need the assistance of Google to post on a shooting forum. Was that a joke???

 

[CraigC]

Nope...I told you...but you told me it was not true and bs....guess it's not bs since we're shooting sub Moa groups all the way to 500 yards...do that consistently with your SRH.

To help you out craigc the expert on the world:

By eliminating all the stress on the barrel and removing the ejector rods, sights, under lug, and so on we have a more harmonically sound platform.

The optimal outer dia for barrel for each caliber was found.

The shroud gives you a stable place to rest the gun that does not change point of impact.

The proof this works is out there. And it's mounting up....not much point in arguing it anymore.

What harmonics? You really think that a six inch full lug .357 revolver is producing significant barrel vibrations? Can you prove it? Can you prove that resting the sixgun on your shroud is actually better than on the frame? Can you actually prove anything, or did you just assume your theories were correct because you had good results? Never mind, I know that's exactly what you're doing.

 

[Varminterror]

Putting a 12" barrel on a .357 doesn't make it anything more than what it is, still just a .357.

Sure it does. A 357mag carbine gets a he11 of a lot more out of the cartridge than a revolver can, and that makes a big difference in the cartridge is capable of accomplishing. My H110 load gets almost 400fps boost in my rifle compared to my revolvers - very different capabilities.

When you consider the differences Chris's revolvers have, it's assuredly getting much higher velocity, increasing its capabilities. B/C gap loss is somewhere around 1% per thou, standard is 5-7thou for Rugers. Chris reduces that to 0.5-1thou (so I've heard), such that he's automatically getting 4-6% more out of the cartridge even before he adds barrel length. If the velocity gain is linear, and I get 400fps between my 7.5" revolvers and 18.5" rifles, then he'd gain over half of what I do with his changes. A 1500fps load is very different than a 1250fps load with the same bullet.

I haven't dug up the velocities on what Chris and Ernie are getting, but I do know the trajectory differences I have between revolvers and rifles - the come-ups that Chris and Ernie mention in the background of their videos I've watched don't line up with my revolver loads, they're shooting a LOT faster.

A 158grn pill is very capable, you just have to push it fast enough. A standard 357mag doesn't, but the FR appears to have a big advantage over a standard. Comparatively, I have a revolver that pushes a 158grn pill over 2100fps. I have more velocity and energy on my bullet at 150yrds than a 357mag has at the muzzle - with the same bullet. Would you really say that the velocity difference doesn't make any difference?

 

[CraigC]

The velocity increases get the .357 rifle to 'maybe' 150yds. Faster is only better if the bullet is up to the task. Bigger is still better. Faster is only better than bigger if you worship energy.

If the FR's barrel is screwed into the frame, just like a stock gun and the shroud is attached to that same frame, how are you eliminating any theoretical vibrations? Do you really think revolvers are affected the same way rifles are? Sorry but this is wishful thinking and junk science.

How much drop with that 180gr load? A couple feet? What was the muzzle velocity?

 

[Varminterror]

Do you really think revolvers are affected the same way rifles are?

As an engineer and physicist myself - why would you think that revolvers are NOT affected by the same forces as rifles?

 

[bcgunworks]

What's really sad....is Craigc has talked down to my customers who have posted things....and just talked down to people in general.

One of those customers he told was full of BS happens to be a preacher. That's just real swift.

Groups on steel where you can measure groups is no different than paper....could have just as easily shot a target...or a critter...paper doesn't make for good video.

The proof that it works is out there....the number of satisfied customers and the pouring in of orders is also proof.

And so far the worst shooting gun was MOA! Ha!
We have obtained repeated results...backed by customers...who have done the same.
The concept of removing all the stress from the barrel actually started with ICoRE revolvers and bianchi cup. Look at those guns. Maybe you will see some similarities. Look around enough and you'll see my guns running in those events.

My background is out there...it can be found. It's not like the Franken ruger was the first wheel gun I pushed the distance with.
Done quite a bit with a 29 and custom highway patrolman. To ranges I know you haven't shot.
Can you prove my system doesn't work?
And by the way....these two other people that have posted against your foolishness....I don't know them....I haven't done any work for them....I think they just spotted your nonsense and spoke up. And I would like to say thank you.

The part that baffles me...is....you make good leather....for handguns....you have attacked a shop that focuses on the handgun market....and you have done this from the start..my shop turns out a lot of work....and a lot of repeat customers...a lot of people inwouldnhave sent your way...but you have made one awesome buisness decisions.
And just to make sure it was clear....you know you told a preacher he was full of crap?

 

[bcgunworks]

Do you really think revolvers are affected the same way rifles are?

As an engineer and physicist myself - why would you think that revolvers are NOT affected by the same forces as rifles?

Because his head is under a rock :mrgreen:

 

[Varminterror]

The velocity increases get the .357 rifle to 'maybe' 150yds.

Since you're looking for data yourself - where is your data that supports this? What are you claiming here is the limiting factor?

I've used a Marlin 1894 in 357mag for many years, killed multiple deer past 150 with occasional pass throughs, and have killed even greater number of coyotes past 200yrds.

Easy math here - A 158grn pill pushed to 1500fps is going the same speed at 150yrds than a standard 158grn load at 1250fps has at the muzzle. Why would that bullet not kill a deer? You said it yourself, a 357mag is a 50-75yrd revolver - why would the same bullet at the same speed not kill deer? It just happens to be at 150yrds instead of 50-75yrds.

I don't have a dog in the Franken-Ruger fight, but you're really proposing faulty logic - a bullet that kills at a given speed will always kill at a given speed.

Guys carry 20lb rifles and shoot ridge to ridge on elk - that's a known hunting method. Just because traditionalists would say it's impractical to carry a 20lb rifle, it doesn't make it a lie when someone says a 7mm Allen is a good ridge-to-ridge killer.

 

[bcgunworks]

Thank you for taking your debate over to the handgun hunting forum craigc. I have more customers there. :mrgreen:

While your at it take it over to specialty pistols and guns and ammo.

Your the best salesman I could have...your nonsense does for me what Obama did for the entire gun industry...best salesman ever! Thanks

 

[CraigC]

Do you really think revolvers are affected the same way rifles are?

As an engineer and physicist myself - why would you think that revolvers are NOT affected by the same forces as rifles?

Since the gunsmith making the claim can't be bothered, then maybe the engineer (BS meter at full power) can explain barrel harmonics in a revolver. By what testing was this determined?

What's really sad....is Craigc has talked down to my customers who have posted things....and just talked down to people in general.

I haven't talked down to anyone. I have only asked YOU questions that you cannot or will not answer. You'd rather get defensive and start slinging insults than answer the questions. Which is a real head scratcher.

Groups on steel where you can measure groups is no different than paper....could have just as easily shot a target...or a critter...paper doesn't make for good video.

Pay attention smart guy. I have never doubted your results. Not once. I doubt the theories behind the floating barrel business and I absolutely question the .357 as a 200yd cartridge. I also refuted your claims that this "system" is better than lineboring.

The concept of removing all the stress from the barrel actually started with ICoRE revolvers and bianchi cup. Look at those guns. Maybe you will see some similarities. Look around enough and you'll see my guns running in those events.

Citation?

My background is out there...it can be found.

Where???

To ranges I know you haven't shot.

Oh really? Who the hell were you before you showed up here? Your arrogance is staggering. You really think you're blazing a new trail here?

The part that baffles me...is....you make good leather....for handguns....you have attacked a shop that focuses on the handgun market....and you have done this from the start..my shop turns out a lot of work....and a lot of repeat customers...a lot of people inwouldnhave sent your way...but you have made one awesome buisness decisions.

Firstly, I don't make holsters for revolvers masquerading as rifles. Secondly, I have not attacked you. Like I've said in every exchange, I've questioned your theories and methods and you've done nothing but get snotty. You've evaded questions. You've slung insults. You've tap danced around questions. As far as my "business decisions", I'm not here to sell leather. I've been here for 13yrs and been doing leatherwork on the side, part-time for two of them. It is something I do on the side for pleasure. So if you think I'm going to tolerate you posting BS so I can sell a few more holsters, you clearly don't know who you're dealing with.

And just to make sure it was clear....you know you told a preacher he was full of crap?

So somehow a preacher is exempt from being full of crap? A preacher is automatically an unquestioned expert on all things related to shooting? Or are his ears so tender than he cannot stand to hear those words? Our preacher is one of the finest men I've ever known. If I thought he would dry up and blow away because someone said he was full of crap, I'd lose all respect for him and find a new preacher.

 

[CraigC]

Easy math here - A 158grn pill pushed to 1500fps is going the same speed at 150yrds than a standard 158grn load at 1250fps has at the muzzle. Why would that bullet not kill a deer? You said it yourself, a 357mag is a 50-75yrd revolver - why would the same bullet at the same speed not kill deer? It just happens to be at 150yrds instead of 50-75yrds.

Yes, easy math. Actually, your 158gr load would be running 1000fps at 150yds with 8" of drop with a 100yd zero. At 200yds, make that 23" of drop. Now tell me again how the .357 is a good 200yd deer cartridge? As my dad would say, that's stretching a little thing a long way.

 

[bcgunworks]

Easy math here - A 158grn pill pushed to 1500fps is going the same speed at 150yrds than a standard 158grn load at 1250fps has at the muzzle. Why would that bullet not kill a deer? You said it yourself, a 357mag is a 50-75yrd revolver - why would the same bullet at the same speed not kill deer? It just happens to be at 150yrds instead of 50-75yrds.

Yes, easy math. Actually, your 158gr load would be running 1000fps at 150yds with 8" of drop with a 100yd zero. At 200yds, make that 23" of drop. Now tell me again how the .357 is a good 200yd deer cartridge? As my dad would say, that's stretching a little thing a long way.

by the way....if ya look alittle closer....i make alot more than just franken-rugers....or hand rifles...or whatever you want to call them.

you can take drop out of your figures....maters little if you can compensate for it....with the equipment that we have available today...dialing drop just takes some practice.

plenty of energy left....seen many a deer dropped with a 38 special going about 8-900 fps at the point of impact...deer and the like are actually quite easy to kill...just have to place the shot...

so where does the distance argument start and stop...is the guy wrong who shoots 200 yards with a 45-70....or a mile with a 338....or 200 yards with a wheel gun..this argument has no place here...you just like to flap your gums....dont bother replying....since i could care less what you think.

Im done with replying to you. There is no point...you dont doubt the results so then there ya go...whats the point in arguing.

Go ahead and jump on that high horse you got there and ride into the sunset.

 

[stevemb]

Wow, thread gone ugly. But lets back up a bit. Thread starts out as pretty much an advertisement. I've read all of bcgunworks posts with interest myself. Not sure how the folks running this place feel about that. It's questioned by someone thats been here for Thirteen yrs.. Then...well, as I said, it went ugly.

 

[bcgunworks]

Wow, thread gone ugly. But lets back up a bit. Thread starts out as pretty much an advertisement. I've read all of bcgunworks posts with interest myself. Not sure how the folks running this place feel about that. It's questioned by someone thats been here for Thirteen yrs.. Then...well, as I said, it went ugly.

It's constant negative comments from the one....kinda funny when others I don't know called the one out....

And now he is so bold as to do it on other forums

 

[stevemb]

I only know of what I've seen here. BC, you r machinist skills are amazing, after that, I'm quite put off. I'm practicing my decorum, was told I lack it.

 

[bcgunworks]

I only know of what I've seen here. BC, you r machinist skills are amazing, after that, I'm quite put off. I'm practicing my decorum, was told I lack it.

Ok...your honesty is noted

 

[jules]

I see Chris's work all the time. And on just about any firearm there is. He don't accept anything less then perfect. He puts out more work in a short time then any gunsmith I know. Not really sure why the guy from Tenn. always has to comment. I don't think anybody really give a rats ass what he has to say to begin with. Like I said before...He has issues :roll: Keep up the great work Chris :wink:

 

[CraigC]

"Constant negative comments"???

I asked you about lineboring, you said it wasn't necessary. That your "shooting system" was the most accurate available. I asked you to go into detail about how your setup was better than all the rest and you danced around it. Then came the insults.

I asked you about blocking the action and fitting an oversized bolt. You danced around it with crap about "doing what is needed". I asked you what that meant, more tap dancing, then insults.

I asked you to explain the concept and testing behind the floating shroud, more tap dancing, then insults.

I began asking valid questions and not only did you never answer them, you got defensive and responded with inflammatory personal crap. If I call any of the gunsmiths I mentioned in our first exchange and ask them about what they do and why, I would get a straightforward explanation. I stood in Jim Stroh's shop and got a detailed explanation of Taylor throating, how it works and when it's necessary. I ask you about your work and you get defensive.

Since you've shared your opinion of me (how's that relevant?), here's my personal opinion of you. I think you didn't answer those questions because you can't. I think you have limited skills and are trying desperately to find your niche. I think your lack of knowledge and experience leads you to believe that you are better than you are. I don't think you understand what it means to say that yours is "the most accurate shooting system anywhere". I held my tongue until you made that statement. Your work doesn't hold a candle to that of the aforementioned `smith's and you're too arrogant/ignorant to realize it. I don't think you understand what it means to claim that the .357Mag is a 200yd deer cartridge. Ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? That's you, on the left.

 

[Varminterror]

Easy math here - A 158grn pill pushed to 1500fps is going the same speed at 150yrds than a standard 158grn load at 1250fps has at the muzzle. Why would that bullet not kill a deer? You said it yourself, a 357mag is a 50-75yrd revolver - why would the same bullet at the same speed not kill deer? It just happens to be at 150yrds instead of 50-75yrds.

Yes, easy math. Actually, your 158gr load would be running 1000fps at 150yds with 8" of drop with a 100yd zero. At 200yds, make that 23" of drop. Now tell me again how the .357 is a good 200yd deer cartridge? As my dad would say, that's stretching a little thing a long way.

I'm not following this logic - 23" of drop (11.5MOA) at 200yrds doesn't have anything to do with the load's ability to kill deer. I've killed lots of game at ranges where shots were over 10MOA. The bullet still has the punch left on it to kill, what does the drop matter?

Again - I don't know Chris any more than encountering him on forums like this, nor do I know Ernie (although he's helped me out on the phone a few times regarding Specialty Pistols, very gracious guy), and the FR is largely irrelevant in my life. BUT... I've been killing game past 100yrds with revolvers for a long time, and I'm currently working on my own project to produce a 250yrd deer killing revolver that throws 357cal bullets.

So I don't really care whether the FR's are legit or not - although I trust Ernie enough to believe that they are - but it just doesn't make sense when someone's so closed-minded about the lethality of 357grn pills at extended ranges.

 

[eveled]

I only know of what I've seen here. BC, you r machinist skills are amazing, after that, I'm quite put off. I'm practicing my decorum, was told I lack it.

I agree. Been following the feud since the beginning. BC, wants people to think he knows it all, when somebody asks legitimate questions, instead of answers, he resorts to insults.

From the start his posts have been sales pitches, I ain't buying.