Why do almost all of you use such heavy bullets.

[jsh]

245gr bullets DO NOT falter after 25-30 yds...you must be talking about something else.

Didn't imply or mean to imply a 245 was lite. 110-125 in 38/357, 165-170 in .44 is lite. Anything much under a 200 is lite in a 45. All of the above I have witnessed yaw or tumbling at much past 75 yards unless pushed to ridiculous speeds. Not all the time mind you but enough that I won't fool with them myself.
Some folks ideas of distance/long range with a handgun and others are two cats of different color.
Lite bullets start off fast and they slow down fast.
Heavy bullets carry more momentum and in turn will fly at a given speed farther/longer.
I refuse to get into the discussion of time of flight vs heavies any more lol.
Jeff

 

[Coogs]

For me, depends on caliber, and what I'm using the round for. We've all heard about the heavier bullets 180gr.+ in the .357 Maximum, those reasons for the heavy bullets in that caliber are obvious. I carry a 4" redhawk in .44 mag and load a 300gr JHC in it. I prefer to make sure of something if I hit it. I'm sure there will be many varied opinions and don't consider any to be wrong. As the man says..........."to each their own" JMHO, Coogs.

 

[Chief_10Beers]

Lighter than standard bullets when pushed to the Max. in a revolver can lead to erosion problems.

Oh? How much lighter than "standard"? Pushed to the max with what powder? Where does this erosion occur exactly? :?

Jimbo is making stuff up again I see. :roll:

I know what Jimbo is talking about. I once shot a box of Factory WWB 357 Magnum with a 110gr Bullet out of my GP100. Never again, I had signs of Flame Cutting in the Top Strap....................

 

[Bucks Owin]

Topstrap "cutting" is unsightly but that is about it. I'd LOVE to have a boxfull of .357 Maximum Blackhawks that had "topstrap issues"... :roll:

So would John Linebaugh I bet! :wink:

 

[Tom W]

I dunno... My .45 Colt would shoot 300 gr cast bullets well, but really shined with the RCBS 270 SAA.

My .44 SRH shoots the 310 grain Lee cast bullet the best, altho the RCBS .245 grain bullets do almost as well.

My .454 liked the RCBS 300 gr RCBS the best, but that pistol, an Encore, was a beast, and I soon sold it.

My .480 Ruger SRH liked the 400 grain RCBS bullets, with a 2x Leupold I could regularly break clay pigeons at a measured 100 yards offhand. It did not like the lighter jacketed Speer bullets at all, but my son's identical revolver loved them.

All in all, the heavier bullets just shoot better for me.

 

[63November]

John Linebaugh always has an interesting take on things:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm

 

[Rick Courtright]

John Linebaugh always has an interesting take on things:

Hi,

I've read a bit of Linebaugh over the years, and since he's able to back up most of what he says with real data, it's generally been time well spent. If I read him correctly in this article, he's saying the same things a lot of others with plenty of game experience have said:

A LITTLE bit heavier than the "standard" bullet, driven to 1100-1200fps, with a proper shot, will put down ANY animal one "should" consider a handgun appropriate target.

Just for an example, let's figure an elk at 75 yds would be an appropriate target for a handgun hunter of AVERAGE skill, shooting a .44 Mag with a 270-290 gr bullet moving at 1150 fps, while the same animal at 200 yds, all else being the same, would not be. If I read that part right, is he going on to say that "just cuz" one can go a lot hotter, especially using HIS guns (i.e. John's, not box stock factory units), doing so's probably gonna gain a lot more in the "bragging that mine's bigger" department than actual performance in the field? In other words, cranking that same load up to 1400 fps is not gonna turn that hunter into a 200 yd handgun shooter right then and there. There are guys out there who could take, make, and, most importantly duplicate, that 200 yd shot, but it takes a lot more than extra powder and a heavier chunk of lead to develop them! Am I getting that right?

Rick C

 

[Coogs]

Bucks, I have a boxful, but no top strap cutting. Does that still count?? :shock: :shock: Coogs.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks, I have a boxful, but no top strap cutting. Does that still count?? :shock: :shock: Coogs.

Must all be unfired! :wink:

 

[63November]

Am I getting that right?

Rick C

Rick, Reading all the articles he has listed on that site:
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm shows several things; for one, he talks about how effective even modest loads can work, the sub 1000 fps stuff. He also talks about why heavier cast bullets can work better in terms of ignition and consistency. It's all pretty interesting to read his take on "moderate loads" considering that he has some pretty stiff chamberings named after him. But I like that honesty. (As I read it, the extra speed largely gets one better trajectory and distance - which places a lot of burden on the skill of the shooter.)

 

[GunnyGene]

Am I getting that right?

Rick C

Rick, Reading all the articles he has listed on that site:
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm shows several things; for one, he talks about how effective even modest loads can work, the sub 1000 fps stuff. He also talks about why heavier cast bullets can work better in terms of ignition and consistency. It's all pretty interesting to read his take on "moderate loads" considering that he has some pretty stiff chamberings named after him. But I like that honesty. (As I read it, the extra speed largely gets one better trajectory and distance - which places a lot of burden on the skill of the shooter.)

If heavy and/or fast were the only criteria then we should all be shooting 20mm. A lot of elephants were taken by pilots using 20mm in RVN. :wink:

The mistake, as you mentioned, is that many folks only consider 1 or 2 parts of a total system that is designed to efficiently deliver a projectile on target with sufficient energy to accomplish the objective. That system includes the shooter, the firearm, the optics and the ammo, and must be addressed as a system that has to work together; not as a piecemeal collection of assorted stuff. Within each of those major system components are several sub-systems. Ammo, for example; includes the powder, the primer, the case, and the bullet weight and design.

Modifying any part of the total system of systems, effects other parts of the system, in ways that may not be immediately apparent without considering the system in total.

 

[Paul B]

That is a good article by Linebaugh. I've read it before and have to agree with some of his comments especially on the S&W M29/629. Just using Elmer Keith's load of 22.0 gr. of 2400 and his Lyman #4292241 bullet, just 250 rounds had my 629 on a fast run back to S&W for repairs. That gun is now in semi-retirement and only used with loads in the 950/1000 FPS range. I have a few Super Blackhawks with standard and Bisler grips plus a couple of Redhawks.

In the .45 Colt, I have too many Colt single actions, a Ruger OM flattop and one Ruger Bisley 5.5". The Bisley .45 was purchased after reading an article by Ross Seyfried where he recommended it for those who could not afford one of Mr. Linebaugh's guns. The Bisley grip is a lot more comfortable with the stout loads. I have Super Blackhawk .44's with the standard and Bisley grips and the Bisley gets shot a lot more often then the conventional grip. I wonder why? :lol:
Paul B.

 

[stevemb]

While this is the first time I've read Linebaughs info, I've said several times on a couple of forums that after a certain point, velo is only buying you more range. So put me down in the agree column ! Am also awaiting a .480.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Here's some Linebaugh data aimed at the S&W model 25-5

http://www.handloads.com/articles/?id=12

Note the warning of tight throats... :wink:

 

[SonofBassMan]

Only 20 days late but struggling to keep up.

The manual that came with a Taurus Tracker .357 revolver advised against either using bullets lighter than 125 grains or those weighing 115 grains. I instinctively follow policy, thinking the writers of same know more than I do. My best guess is that the lighter bullets present an alignment problem and thus could cause some gas erosion. This is just a guess but my common bullet for that gun is either the Berry `125 grain hollow point plated bullet with Titegroup or the 125 XTP with AA#9.

Upon reading some horror stories about bears and talking to a rancher who occasionally puts down sick or injured cows (big beasts, allowing some measure of bullet performance - how does a cow skull compare with that of a bear, should you want to immediately stop the action) I load heavy bullets like 250 grain and plan to try heavier ones in my .44 mag.

I brief look at the Taylor incapacitation index provides some idea of the relative value of large diameter heavy bullets. My guess is that flat noses (the bullet) and sharp shoulder in front of the crimping groove would tear and rip tissue more than a round nose bullet that might just push stuff aside. There are not many heavy round nose .44 mag bullets.

I have shot a .454 Casul and that is a real big handgun that would provide more hitting power provided a person could shoot it. I also have a big can of bear spray, lavender mist or something like that but have been told the gel stuff makes for less collateral damage.

As for rifles I shoot .224 75 grain, 105 grain 6mm's, 140 grain 6.5's and 208 grain .30's (.300 WM) mostly because they have better form factors and velocities usually catch up to lighter bullets having 200 fps more mv at 300 yards there about. Less wind deflection, more energy should you want to do more than punch a hole in paper. The .308 Win usually loaded with 155's is sort of a "safe queen".

Run the Miller twist calculator (available on line for free to be used on EXCELL) to determine twist rates for various bullets inputting temperature, velocity, altitude, air pressure, bullet length, weight, and diameter. The program produces a number called a stability index or something like that - termed Sg that should be 1.5 ( I hear U.S. Government DOD standard). This will indicate if the bullet will fly straight on vs. yawing. Running this program will avoid a disappointment :x should you decide to buy a heavier and longer bullet than normal -- ie 105 grain 6mm VLD for a 1-10 twist rather than a 87 grain or 105 grain semi spritzer.

 

[Chuckbuster II]

Am I getting that right?

Rick C

Rick, Reading all the articles he has listed on that site:
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm shows several things; for one, he talks about how effective even modest loads can work, the sub 1000 fps stuff. He also talks about why heavier cast bullets can work better in terms of ignition and consistency. It's all pretty interesting to read his take on "moderate loads" considering that he has some pretty stiff chamberings named after him. But I like that honesty. (As I read it, the extra speed largely gets one better trajectory and distance - which places a lot of burden on the skill of the shooter.)

If heavy and/or fast were the only criteria then we should all be shooting 20mm. A lot of elephants were taken by pilots using 20mm in RVN. :wink:

The mistake, as you mentioned, is that many folks only consider 1 or 2 parts of a total system that is designed to efficiently deliver a projectile on target with sufficient energy to accomplish the objective. That system includes the shooter, the firearm, the optics and the ammo, and must be addressed as a system that has to work together; not as a piecemeal collection of assorted stuff. Within each of those major system components are several sub-systems. Ammo, for example; includes the powder, the primer, the case, and the bullet weight and design.

Modifying any part of the total system of systems, effects other parts of the system, in ways that may not be immediately apparent without considering the system in total.

Gunny
System/sub-sustems/major system components,,,,,,,
You an Engineer???

Regarding the OP Topic
Because I want to and can!

 

[GunnyGene]

Gunny
System/sub-sustems/major system components,,,,,,,
You an Engineer???

Regarding the OP Topic
Because I want to and can!

Once upon a time.

 

[SonofBassMan]

For me, some sort of a systematic approach is needed because 1000's of possible combinations are available.

To modify my past response about heavy bullets in rifles, this is for shooting targets at known ranges where wind deflection is a problem. But for varmints and other easy to kill game that can pop up at 25 to 400 yards (my self imposed non-varmint max range) I like high velocity flat trajectory loads with relatively light bullets.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Lighter than standard bullets when pushed to the Max. in a revolver can lead to erosion problems.

Oh? How much lighter than "standard"? Pushed to the max with what powder? Where does this erosion occur exactly? :?

Jimbo is making stuff up again I see. :roll:

Did either of you two guys happen to see this thread in the revolver section? Look at the pictures. You might see what I was talking about.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=228384

 

[Bucks Owin]

I doubt even you can understand your gibberish EGO! :shock: :lol: