Why December 25?

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Bob Wright said:
Well, I sure hate to contradict you, but that is a false teaching. Christian Doctrine teaches there is only one God, an endless God who is composed of three personages, God the Father, god the Son, and God the Holy ghost. And man is a sinner, born in sin, and after conception, will live forever. Heaven is a "Utopian Life" after physical death and admission is only by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. As a member of the family of God, I cannot accept the teaching that I am a "brother" to unbelievers. Though I cannot accept the teaching of "brotherhood of all men" I am charged to live peaceably with all men so far as possible.

Bob Wright
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That is your privilege. Considering all the horrible atrocities perpetuated over the centuries by "Christians" following the tenets expressed in the Bible as interpreted by priests, rabbis and preachers, I choose to look at the message of the various faiths.

Which is the "proper" Christian faith: The slaughter of the Albigensians in the Cathar Crusade by the Catholic Church (1209-1229), the slaughter of the Irish Catholics and their subsequent enslavement by the Protestant Cromwell (1649-1650), prosecution of the Eastern Orthodox Church (1054), or the wars in Austria after Martin Luther posted his 97 (95) Theses in 1517 (?

As a student at a Baptist University, I was taught that the Bible was written by men interpreting God's Word. My point is who determines what is a "False Teaching" except those with an agenda in place? You most certainly have a right to your beliefs, as do I.
 
BearBiologist said:
That is your privilege. Considering all the horrible atrocities perpetuated over the centuries by "Christians" following the tenets expressed in the Bible as interpreted by priests, rabbis and preachers, I choose to look at the message of the various faiths.

Which is the "proper" Christian faith: The slaughter of the Albigensians in the Cathar Crusade by the Catholic Church (1209-1229), the slaughter of the Irish Catholics and their subsequent enslavement by the Protestant Cromwell (1649-1650), prosecution of the Eastern Orthodox Church (1054), or the wars in Austria after Martin Luther posted his 97 (95) Theses in 1517 (?

As a student at a Baptist University, I was taught that the Bible was written by men interpreting God's Word. My point is who determines what is a "False Teaching" except those with an agenda in place? You most certainly have a right to your beliefs, as do I.
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Greetings from a Texas Brother!
 
"Christian replacement for pagan holidays that the early church was trying to compete with/suppress. Very unlikely to coincide with the actual timing of Jesus' birth given the written record."

A lot of truth there. As a kid, I remember the phrase, "the burning of the Yule log which occurred on what would be December 25th. Also the , "the Yule season which at the time I though was just another name for the Christmas season. IIRC, the Yule season was a Nordic pagan holiday.
Then there is Easter. I've heard and read that the word "Easter" is a bastardization of the name "Ishtar', pagan goddess. Who knew?

When it comes to the King James bible, I know of several changes made by the "good King James" which leads me to have suspicion on what is found there. Be that as it may, I know what I believe; that Jesus died for me and I'll stick to that. Everything else is suspect. I have never seen any of the original text and couldn't read it anyway. It would surprise me if anyone here could read that text if it was available.

With all that said, I'll ask that the children play nice. :cool:
Paul B.
 
Fox Mike said:
Why do we celebrate Christmas on 25 December? If we are to believe the Bible stories, and most do, then the shepherds were in the fields with their flocks. This occurs in the spring at calving season, not in winter.
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One explanation was the difference between the Julian & Gregorian calendars. The Gregorian was the most accurate & when used, 12 days were lost. That moved the date from January 6th to December 25th.
 
The actual birthday is September 11, (9/11) in the year 3BCE. This is arrived using astronomy and Revelation 12. The Apostle John mentions a Woman clothed with the Sun and the Moon at her feet. This alludes to the constellation Virgo - The Virgin. The Sun clothing her occurs yearly between August 27 to September 15. The moon at her feet narrows down the timeline to one specific day of September 11, 3BCE. This day is also Jewish New Year or Ra-sha-shan, the Festival of Trumpets. December 25 is the Festival of the Greek god Zeus. Also known as the Roman god Jupiter. Which was adopted by pagan "Christians" because it sounded so similar to Jesus' actual pronunciation of "Ya-zeus." And because they wanted to blend Christianity with their pagan customs.
 
"The Apostle John mentions a Woman clothed with the Sun and the Moon at her feet. This alludes to the constellation Virgo - The Virgin. "

Just to verify: The APOSTLE John or John of Patmos (Book of Revelation)?
 
I always wondered why our time line is defined as BC before Christ or AD Anno Domini. (year of our Lord).

Yet Christmas isnt the first day of the year. So Christ was alive for a length of time Before Christ!
 
BearBiologist said:
As a Freemason, I believe that all men who believe in a single Almighty being are brothers. The basic teachings of all religions (Not those of the clergy) are the same, it is the preachers, priests, etc. who distort the underlying message.
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Muslims preach these same lies attempting to convert Christians to their religion.
 
Bob Wright said:
Well, I sure hate to contradict you, but that is a false teaching. Christian Doctrine teaches there is only one God, an endless God who is composed of three personages, God the Father, god the Son, and God the Holy ghost. And man is a sinner, born in sin, and after conception, will live forever. Heaven is a "Utopian Life" after physical death and admission is only by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. As a member of the family of God, I cannot accept the teaching that I am a "brother" to unbelievers. Though I cannot accept the teaching of "brotherhood of all men" I am charged to live peaceably with all men so far as possible.

Bob Wright
Click to expand...
That is a Christian belief. In Judaism, the idea of God as a duality or trinity is heretical — it is even considered by some polytheistic. I do believe that Jesus was a Jew and Christianity was created from His teachings so would He have been teaching heresy?
 
powder smoke said:
Sorry Frank I do not believe in Bible stories! There is a reason they are called stories
rather than History! If you know what I mean!
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Umm... History is a series of stories. They are called stories, because they are stories. Just like stories of the revolutionary war, Plymouth Rock, 911...etc. Suggesting that 'stories" implies inaccurate or fiction is incorrect.
Historians have repeatedly told us how the Bible is false.. and then archeology proves them wrong.

I think the fact that every time Jesus or the Bible get brought up, you have non-believers chime in to try to disprove/refute it, is very telling. Why care so much?
 
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Fox Mike said:
That is a Christian belief. In Judaism, the idea of God as a duality or trinity is heretical — it is even considered by some polytheistic. I do believe that Jesus was a Jew and Christianity was created from His teachings so would He have been teaching heresy?
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Did Christ actually teach the Trinity? I don't remember (and it's been a few years since I read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation) him actually saying so.

"Muslims preach these same lies attempting to convert Christians to their religion."

If that is true, why are we "infidels" and why do they vociferously advocate violence?

Remember, I am talking about what the religions actually say not what some self-educated redneck preacher or self-taught Imman says. Of course, fundamentalists of all faiths have a very specific agenda.
 
Fox Mike said:
That is a Christian belief. In Judaism, the idea of God as a duality or trinity is heretical — it is even considered by some polytheistic. I do believe that Jesus was a Jew and Christianity was created from His teachings so would He have been teaching heresy?
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The very first book of the Jewish scriptures establishes the Trinity. Gen 1, verse 2, "and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the earth." Gen 26, verse 26, "And God said, Let us make man in our own image". Who is this entity that God is talking to, that is the image of a man?
There's more evidence in Genesis 1 (and through out the Old Testament) that alludes to this, these are just the two easiest to see.
 
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A little research will confirm what I stated. I didn't make it up. All are entitled to believe whatever they wish. King James didn't like what Roman Catholics said so he changed things to suit his purpose. That being said; is the King James version of the Bible correct and all others false?
 
BlkHawk73 said:
Just as the church removed anyone that opposed them or wouldn't come to their side, it was forced upon everyone that their stories were the only truthful ones while making any other belief stories to be simply myths. Coincidental? Nope! What makes their stories fact and those of other religeons false? The bigger bully perhaps? It's interesting people believe thes not be so factual and accuarte yet dismiss any others. It's as thought they believe a story would be passed down again and again and again and still continue to not be embellished, edited or changed as a means to explain what their level of science couldn't. People can't do that now. Ahh, but we're supposed to put all our faith in the very institution that hides behind a wall (Vatican) while covering up their hypocrisy? They preach love and peace but brutally murderd anyone chose to have a different belief. And how about those boy-loving priests? But hey, at least their pay their fair share in taxes.
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This sounds like a lot of anti-Catholic hate. No religion is wvwnclose to perfect, they all have things they hide.
 
Blackhawk Convertable said:
The actual birthday is September 11, (9/11) in the year 3BCE. This is arrived using astronomy and Revelation 12. The Apostle John mentions a Woman clothed with the Sun and the Moon at her feet. This alludes to the constellation Virgo - The Virgin. The Sun clothing her occurs yearly between August 27 to September 15. The moon at her feet narrows down the timeline to one specific day of September 11, 3BCE. This day is also Jewish New Year or Ra-sha-shan, the Festival of Trumpets. December 25 is the Festival of the Greek god Zeus. Also known as the Roman god Jupiter. Which was adopted by pagan "Christians" because it sounded so similar to Jesus' actual pronunciation of "Ya-zeus." And because they wanted to blend Christianity with their pagan customs.
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Or, the history of the Roman occupation puts Herrod's census in 4 BC. The early Christians picked the date for celebrating Christ's birth one week before the big Roman festival of Janus, the god of the New Year.
 
To attract new converts the Romans chose Christmas to coincide with holidays already celebrated by the pagans, Saturnalia and the Solstice. This occurred the 300's. Prior to that Jesus' birth was not celebrated but the Epiphany was.
This is also how the rcc came up with nuns (vestal virgins) and priests.
 
BlkHawk73 said:
Just as the church removed anyone that opposed them or wouldn't come to their side, it was forced upon everyone that their stories were the only truthful ones while making any other belief stories to be simply myths. Coincidental? Nope! What makes their stories fact and those of other religeons false? The bigger bully perhaps? It's interesting people believe thes not be so factual and accuarte yet dismiss any others. It's as thought they believe a story would be passed down again and again and again and still continue to not be embellished, edited or changed as a means to explain what their level of science couldn't. People can't do that now. Ahh, but we're supposed to put all our faith in the very institution that hides behind a wall (Vatican) while covering up their hypocrisy? They preach love and peace but brutally murderd anyone chose to have a different belief. And how about those boy-loving priests? But hey, at least their pay their fair share in taxes.
Click to expand...
When you write "the church" it is more correctly 'the roman catholic church".
 
Paul B said:
"Christian replacement for pagan holidays that the early church was trying to compete with/suppress. Very unlikely to coincide with the actual timing of Jesus' birth given the written record."

A lot of truth there. As a kid, I remember the phrase, "the burning of the Yule log which occurred on what would be December 25th. Also the , "the Yule season which at the time I though was just another name for the Christmas season. IIRC, the Yule season was a Nordic pagan holiday.
Then there is Easter. I've heard and read that the word "Easter" is a bastardization of the name "Ishtar', pagan goddess. Who knew?

When it comes to the King James bible, I know of several changes made by the "good King James" which leads me to have suspicion on what is found there. Be that as it may, I know what I believe; that Jesus died for me and I'll stick to that. Everything else is suspect. I have never seen any of the original text and couldn't read it anyway. It would surprise me if anyone here could read that text if it was available.

:cool:
Paul B.
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What changes did the king make. Seems as if the subsequent translations are very much in line with the KJV.
 
Fox Mike said:
A little research will confirm what I stated. I didn't make it up. All are entitled to believe whatever they wish. King James didn't like what Roman Catholics said so he changed things to suit his purpose. That being said; is the King James version of the Bible correct and all others false?
Click to expand...
I've done the research, thanks. You are right in the fact that the Jews didn't accept the trinity and considered it polytheism. But there are/were many things from the Tanakh that the Jews didn't understand (Messiah Ben David vs Messiah Ben Yoseph for example). Much of the old testament makes no sense until you understand the Trinity; Zech 12:10 is an example. Plug in the Trinity and the Light will come on! You might want to read the book "Ha-Mashiach" by Arnold Fruhctenbaum (He's a Jew BTW). Understanding Jewish perspective and history is critical to understanding Christianity. Because, you're right - Jesus wasn't a Christian. Christianity is just a name given to a Jewish religion that realizes the Messiah has come in the flesh. If you call yourself a Christian, you should love the Jewish people. It's funny how the Jews are credited with killing Jesus, but the Italians aren't.

As for the awful things that have been done by the churches; they only reinforce the truth of the Bible (we live in fallen world and need a savior). None of these awful things are Christian or promoted by Jesus.

I'll end by saying, there are those many that want to destroy the Truth and want to attack the Bible. The vast majority have never studied it in depth or even read it cover to cover. As I said before, the fact that so many who don't believe seem to care so passionately, should tell you something. It's easy to refute the Bible as long as you don't know it or are willing to just plain lie about it. I've read/heard so many damning things about the accuracy of the Bible and some of them are shocking....until you follow through and track down the facts. But the Bible is an Anvil that has been beat on for thousands of years...and all that happens is the hammers just keep wearing out.
Peace be with you!
 
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I believe 100% in the freedom to believe what you want to believe, but as a Christian, frankly I am sad that there is so much skepticism and unbelief among us. I hope that each of you have an opportunity to see the wonders that Christ can bring to your life.
 
In Judaism a boy infant is circumcized on the 8th day. That ceremony, a "bris" is an affirmation of the covenant between God and the Jewish people, and it is at that point that the infant is truly a full person. Jesus, being Jewish, would have been so circumcized on the 8th day. Our calendar today is essentially the Christian calendar, and if year 1 started on Jan 1, that would make sense to consider that day the one in which Jesus had his bris. Counting backwards from Jan 1, you would have Dec 25 as the day of the actual birth. This seems to explain the date as well as anything that I have read.

What to me is more intriguing than the miracles observed at the time of Jesus' birth, i.e. the bright star in the East, the appearance of the angels, etc. is the lack of any biblical account of the time between his birth and his arrival in Jerusalem at age 32. What happened in the intervening 32 years? A child born with such miraculous events connected with his birth would seemingly have been followed by a lifetime of worship and adoration. I've always wondered about why Christians were not more curious as to what happened to Jesus as a child or young adult, but jump from his birth on Christmas to his crucifixation 32 years later.
 
Remember, in The Colonies, religious persecution and discrimination was rampant. (Yes, Muslims fought in the American Revolution!). Wiccans (witches), BTW, were hanged in both North America and England, not burned- Vincent Price movies notwithstanding!

The point is "We are all entitled and permitted (in the US) to believe what we wish". I choose to look at the message and not the rhetoric.
 
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