Why do we celebrate Christmas on 25 December? If we are to believe the Bible stories, and most do, then the shepherds were in the fields with their flocks. This occurs in the spring at calving season, not in winter.
Why December 25?
- Thread starter Fox Mike
- Start date
it was Jesus birthday...
NikA
Hunter
Christian replacement for pagan holidays that the early church was trying to compete with/suppress. Very unlikely to coincide with the actual timing of Jesus' birth given the written record.
Very interesting read hittman.
Bob Wright
Hawkeye
So far as I know the exact date when Jesus was born is not known, and December was arbitrarily chose. As I observed this morning to my pastor, today is unique as we celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection on the same day.
Bob Wright
Bob Wright
OP
No, it is an arbitrary date picked to celebrate the birth of Jesus. It isn't a fact that 25 December is the actual date.
OP
Not really. Still why 25 December? Some celebrate in January.So you just answered your own question used to start the thread.
powder smoke
Hawkeye
Sorry Frank I do not believe in Bible stories! There is a reason they are called stories
rather than History! If you know what I mean!
rather than History! If you know what I mean!
We celebrate it on the 25th because it was originally a pagan holiday and the church wanted to keep the celebration date to make it easy for them. It's actually the conception of Christ since he was born sometime in September.
Bob Wright
Hawkeye
You're saying my life's story is fiction?
Seemed painfully real to me at the time.
Bob Wright
powder smoke
Hawkeye
I do not know your life story and do not care to know Mr. Wright
I do not believe I was actually addressing you! Where did you get that?
I do not believe I was actually addressing you! Where did you get that?
Bob Wright
Hawkeye
You discredit the very tenants of my beliefs as being stories, or fables. The idea you conveyed was that all stories are fictional. What you believe, or don't believe, is your choice.
But my faith teaches that there is an eternal Heaven for those who believe in the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ, and an eternal lake of fire for those who reject Him.
As a believer, it is my duty to tell of the saving grace of Jesus. It is your choice. You have chosen to be the ultimate gambler.
Its often compared to one passing by and seeing a house afire. He is charged with telling someone their house is on fire. The occupants may either believe him and escape, or stay inside and perish in the flames. They have made their choice.
You made a blanket statement, which does include me. So don't get your neck hairs bristled.
Bob Wright
powder smoke
Hawkeye
My beliefs and yours are not the same, You are a full grown man!
Start acting like one! What you believe is your business and what I
believe is my business! Do you get it! Stop making a fool of your self!
Your beliefs are safe pal stop your whining.Sound like a spoiled child
or a senile old man! ps
Start acting like one! What you believe is your business and what I
believe is my business! Do you get it! Stop making a fool of your self!
Your beliefs are safe pal stop your whining.Sound like a spoiled child
or a senile old man! ps
The strangest thing about Americans is they will believe Politicians but not the King James Bible one of the oldest history books of the english language.
December 25 is a Pagan Holiday celebrating the start of longer days and it was used by early Religious People (nothing to do with the Bible) to get the Pagans to join their Religion.
Goods Books about it are Rev. Clarence Larkin's Book of Daniel, The Spirit World, and The Book of Revelation.
December 25 is a Pagan Holiday celebrating the start of longer days and it was used by early Religious People (nothing to do with the Bible) to get the Pagans to join their Religion.
Goods Books about it are Rev. Clarence Larkin's Book of Daniel, The Spirit World, and The Book of Revelation.
For a "story" it sure seems that quite a lot of our world revolves around it
BearBiologist
Hunter
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Coincides with the Green Man myth (As did the story of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight). All Saints Day overlays with Samhain, or the Celtic day marking the end of the fall harvest (e.g Halloween falls on All Saints Eve). The Easter bunny represents the old fertility festivals marking the Spring planting (as does Easter itself). The bunnies represent wild abandoned mating (The March Hare) and big litters.
Christ's Birth actually most likely occurred in September according to most theologians, but the Catholic Church played fast and loose with the truth when faced with the stablished pagan religions.
BearBiologist
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At the Council of Nicea (A.D 325) was held to decide what would be taught as gospel and what would not. Many books of the New Testament were simply ignored, some became the Apocrypha.
The King James's version of the Bible took 7 years to write by many authors and was for the Church of England. It contains many error (For instance, according to a Hebrew-speaking friend, the original text is NOT "Thou shalt not kill" but, rather, "Thou Shalt not MURDER" (for profit)
The King James's version of the Bible took 7 years to write by many authors and was for the Church of England. It contains many error (For instance, according to a Hebrew-speaking friend, the original text is NOT "Thou shalt not kill" but, rather, "Thou Shalt not MURDER" (for profit)
BearBiologist
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My Professor in Grad School pointed out that faith is acceptance w/o proof and knowledge is acceptance with proof and are two different things and cannot be compared.
As a Freemason, I believe that all men who believe in a single Almighty being are brothers. The basic teachings of all religions (Not those of the clergy) are the same, it is the preachers, priests, etc. who distort the underlying message. That is one reason why two things may NEVER be discussed in Lodge: Religion and Politics!
Bob Wright
Hawkeye
Well, I sure hate to contradict you, but that is a false teaching. Christian Doctrine teaches there is only one God, an endless God who is composed of three personages, God the Father, god the Son, and God the Holy ghost. And man is a sinner, born in sin, and after conception, will live forever. Heaven is a "Utopian Life" after physical death and admission is only by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. As a member of the family of God, I cannot accept the teaching that I am a "brother" to unbelievers. Though I cannot accept the teaching of "brotherhood of all men" I am charged to live peaceably with all men so far as possible.
Bob Wright
ronto
Hunter
The important fact is that Jesus was born and not the date of his birth.
Just as the church removed anyone that opposed them or wouldn't come to their side, it was forced upon everyone that their stories were the only truthful ones while making any other belief stories to be simply myths. Coincidental? Nope! What makes their stories fact and those of other religeons false? The bigger bully perhaps? It's interesting people believe thes not be so factual and accuarte yet dismiss any others. It's as thought they believe a story would be passed down again and again and again and still continue to not be embellished, edited or changed as a means to explain what their level of science couldn't. People can't do that now. Ahh, but we're supposed to put all our faith in the very institution that hides behind a wall (Vatican) while covering up their hypocrisy? They preach love and peace but brutally murderd anyone chose to have a different belief. And how about those boy-loving priests? But hey, at least their pay their fair share in taxes.
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Underlying all of our fellow "Theologians" discussions, is, the writings of the New Testament, the Sermon on the Mount in particular, are about the best guidelines for living ever put to print. JMHO, YMMV etc.
"Treat others the way you want to be treated" has yet to be improved on.
"Treat others the way you want to be treated" has yet to be improved on.
The exact date of his birth is not known. The important thing is that we celebrate his birth, life and resurrection.
You can believe or not believe. God gives us that choice. But to get all upset when someone professes their belief is merely childish behavior.
You can believe or not believe. God gives us that choice. But to get all upset when someone professes their belief is merely childish behavior.
Lessee....You start out by insulting Bob Wright's beliefs, then you accuse HIM of acting juvenile, acting the fool, whining and behaving like a spoiled child.
Is it possible that you are projecting your own shortcomings on Mr. Wright.
I know of NO serious theologian, historian, or textual critic who actually contends for 12/25 as the date of Jesus' birth. (This includes both those who are biblically conservative and those who are not). Those who do go out on the limb and offer a date usually suggest a time frame of Sept./October.
Why the early church picked this date will forever be debated. This thread demonstrates that.
Syncretism is always a seductive tool to those who want to be both relevant and faithful. Another day and another judge will determine if the faithful used that tool wisely. 1Peter 4:17.
Bear Bio's distinction between faith and knowledge works for me as well as the author of Hebrews 11. Theism and Atheism are both faith positions. The agnostic will forever hover in the middle ground looking for one more piece of proof.
I've enjoyed this post and I see evidence (not Proof) of Someone behind Bob as he has travelled through some of the tougher blows life throws at us.
KRuger
Why the early church picked this date will forever be debated. This thread demonstrates that.
Syncretism is always a seductive tool to those who want to be both relevant and faithful. Another day and another judge will determine if the faithful used that tool wisely. 1Peter 4:17.
Bear Bio's distinction between faith and knowledge works for me as well as the author of Hebrews 11. Theism and Atheism are both faith positions. The agnostic will forever hover in the middle ground looking for one more piece of proof.
I've enjoyed this post and I see evidence (not Proof) of Someone behind Bob as he has travelled through some of the tougher blows life throws at us.
KRuger
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