What exactly is a 1911?

[KIR]

Unquestionably the 1911 seems to be the most popular pistol around. It has been around since 1911 and fires the .45 acp round of ammo, which is renown for its stopping power. It made me wonder though if it was such a great pistol, why was the High Power, usually in 9mm, used more by all the combatants? High Powers were used by both the Allies and the Axis Powers. Was it the lighter weight? The higher capacity?
Many manufacturers make a 1911 with modifications. So when does a 1911 stop being a 1911? A change in caliber? A change to being striker fired, all other things about it being the same?
Inquiring minds want to know. What are your thoughts on the subject?

 

[Wvfarrier]

As long as the basics are still John Brownings design, its a 1911. Hi-Powers were popular due to the caliber and capacity

 

[Jeepnik]

When it no longer uses the basic action as designed by JMB. But that question could be ask about just about any iconic handgun, including the Hi Power or even the modern Glock. Most of today's pistols that use the safety on trigger system I refer to Glockalikes.

But in reality, they quit being 1911's when the 1911A1 was introduced. Then that faded, at least from Colt with the Series 70 and so on.

 

[gunzo]

.

 

[Kevin]

So your question is when does a 1911 stop being a 1911. Right?

Good question. Especially these days with the double stack 1911's and the 9mm 1911. And the 2011’s that are out there.

Does a 2011 count as a 1911?

 

[Fox Mike]

Then there is the Browning 1911 380.

Then there is the 'size' factor.

 

[Kevin]

And Browning also has a Black Label in .22 caliber. It's a 1911 in rimfire…. Does that count as a 1911?

 

[jimbo1096]

And the Colt’s 1991 A1. As it was said as long as it follows John Browning's original design and is roughly the same profile I think it would count as a 1911 type

 

[wproct]

I've had Colts, Springfield Armory, Sigs, and Kimbers, and all were good. I prefer the 70 series but my current Kimber II has been fine even with the Swartz firing pin safety.

 

[ex13F]

 

[hittman]

… 1911 in rimfire…. Does that count as a 1911?

Oh heavens no, at least not to the purists ( snobs? LOL ).
My favorite 1911 is the Ruger Lightweight Commander in 9mm.
For a 45 ACP, I’ll stick with the Sig P 220 thank-you-very-much!

 

[Jeepnik]

Looks like a 1911 but I think a series 70 inside.

 

[DGW1949]

When it no longer uses the basic action as designed by JMB. But that question could be ask about just about any iconic handgun, including the Hi Power or even the modern Glock. Most of today's pistols that use the safety on trigger system I refer to Glockalikes.

But in reality, they quit being 1911's when the 1911A1 was introduced. Then that faded, at least from Colt with the Series 70 and so on.

You win the prize......By definition, nothing can be a 1911 except a 1911...Hence the later alterations resulting in the 1911A-1, which I suppose could be looked at as a sort of improved 1911. Least-ways the US Army thought so.....As to the even later Commander, Government Model, Series 70, Series 80, the various double-stacks, double-action, beaver-tailed/skeletonized/rail-equipped monstrosities, downsized .380 blowbacks, .22-Cal paper punchers, so-called "Officers" and/or cut-down "almost" pocket sized models, and/or the cast clones of any of those....No, them ain't "1911's". Not by a long shot. Real 1911/1911A-1 pistols are fashioned from forged steel, precision machine processes, and don't require 500 round break-in's or expensive boutique mags in order to function....no improvement needed, and certainly no fluff.....all the rest came about as an answer to an imaginary problem, a lack of knowledge, or perhaps simple vanity....dunno....You can bet however, that none of it came out of the head of John Moses Browning.

DGW

 

[tazbigdog]

Ok, you asked for it…

 

[Jeepnik]

Tax, the top one ain’t a 1911. A 1911A1 maybe but not a pure 1911.

 

[DGW1949]

Tax, the top one ain't a 1911. A 1911A1 maybe but not a pure 1911.

Early A-1 variation...and more likely, an A-1 that got rebuilt along the way. I say that because I'm not sure just when the plastic grips got phased in, or when the wide spur hammer got phased out. It ain't a 1911 though, that's for sure. You can tell that at a glance from the frame and short trigger.

DGW

 

[tazbigdog]

Tax, the top one ain't a 1911. A 1911A1 maybe but not a pure 1911.

Top one is a WW2 .45.

 

[tazbigdog]

Early A-1 variation...and more likely, an A-1 that got rebuilt along the way. I say that because I'm not sure just when the plastic grips got phased in, or when the wide spur hammer got phased out. It ain't a 1911 though, that's for sure. You can tell that at a glance from the frame and short trigger.

DGW

The grips are new. The WW2 grips are in the safe. The SN dates the pistol to 1943.

 

[coach]

I guess I know one when I see it. No matter what iteration it might be.

 

[Bob Wright]

As far as I'm concerned, itsa M1911 (or M1911A1) if it says "Property of the U.S.Gpvernment" on the pistol. Otherwise, its a Colt Government Model, or whatever the makers model number is.

As to the Hi-Power, most European nations, and Egland, had 9mm SMGs, so it followed that the pistol was 9mm. The US SMG was .45 ACP.

Bob Wright

 

[kmoore]

Should I start a when is an AR-15 not an Ar-15?

 

[thedogdidit]

Then there is the Browning 1911 380.

Then there is the 'size' factor.

What model is that little 380?

 

[Rock185]

I suspect the Hi Power was much more popular Worldwide simply because the 9mm cartridge was, and still is, much more popular Worldwide. As to when a 1911 becomes not a 1911, I guess we all have our own ideas about that. I know my "1911s" are actually 1911 "type" guns. I guess there have been no actual 1911/1911A1s since the last Government contracts around 1946..

 

[375hh1973]

My Kimber Rapide Scorpius 10mm looks and functions just like a 1911.

Most importantly, it IDENTIFIES as a 1911.

 

[thinckley]

Most importantly, it IDENTIFIES as a 1911.

But what does it say on the birth certificate?

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Top one is a WW2 .45.

Mine's from 1944 and says "Remington-Rand" on the other side.

 

[DGW1949]

What model is that little 380?

I can't answer your question, but one thing is for sure....it ain't no "1911".

DGW

 

[RC44Mag]

Only have one at this time and wanted an updated version of ones I carried in the fleet in the 80’s( actual govt model makers) Got a Colt Series 70 ‘reissue’ O1970A1CS. This newer version of a 70 series doesn’t have the collet bushing.
A1 ‘improvements’ without the later added ‘safety’ feature. Looks and feels like a USGI full size .45 but shoots considerably better

 

[steveodtw]

Then there's the "Baby" 1911s. Sig P238/938, Kimber Ultras and Colts.

 

[JohnL]

This is "Identity Politics" I can get behind.