Welding

[graygun]

I've never done it so have questions. Can I get a o/a gas rig and practice my way into skilled work rather than going with some type of electric welder? When I say "can I " it's meant to ask is it more practical and/or advisable for a novice.

I'd like to be free from having to rely on electrical power. I'd be doing hobby and some repair.

 

[WAYNO]

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[NikA]

I think the first question I would ask is "what are you intending to weld?" Different processes have different capabilities and pros/cons.

For me, the pro of not having to deal with gas suppliers far outweighs any cons of needing a source of electricity. Even with a shielded gas process like MIG or TIG the frequency of dealing with a gas supplier is lower than torch welding.

 

[Dave P.]

I make part of my living welding, have for a long time.
I'd suggest that gas welding may be the most difficult to learn on your
own, yes it can be done with all the videos and stuff on line.
I almost never weld anything with gas anymore. I use it to heat
stubborn parts, to heat and bend material, and as pre-heat for
some welding process. Once and a great while I'll braze something
with the torch, but usually even braze with my tig.
I get the no power required aspect but as mentioned above use
a generator if forced into field work.
A torch set is plenty useful so even if you bought one and decided to
go with a different process later it wouldn't be a waste of money.
Lots of stuff is still brazed with a torch, but not much gets
welded with one anymore...you're time traveling back about
100 years.
Short answer...not easy or really practical.
Dave

 

[RSIno1]

......until you learn to control your heat and puddle. Steel has a knack for disappearing without notice until you get the hang of welding.
For me, in the field, a generator-powered welder is more convenient than gas bottles.

My aluminum welding still does that.
I just bought a TriFuel generator at Costco that has enough 220 output to run my wire feed. I need to make some new handrails for the front porch and it will be easiest on site. My current 40' of cord wouldn't reach.
Best advice I ever got on electric welding was when it sounds like bacon frying it's working.

They were $200 off when I bought https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100648883.html
I ended up buying 3 figuring I could sell 2 for a profit in the upcoming CA brownout season.

 

[Mobuck]

I've done brazing, stick(both corded AC and engine driven) , and MIG welding. Don't do much brazing anymore since we have a MIG welder that's nearly mystical in it's capabilities.
I use stick for fencing, field repairs that are too large/heavy to bring back to a shop, and other remote (no AC access) projects.
The gas torch is mostly for cutting, heating to loosen stuck parts, and bending.
Learning to weld with a good MIG machine is basically doing proper metal prep and having a steady hand. Set the wire feed and amps and lay a bead. If you don't already have a genset, most portable welders will provide remote power for building projects or in case of loss of AC power. Not my first choice of alternate power because welders aren't as efficient when used as generators but they will work in emergencies. If I had the need, I'd own a combo unit that does stick and MIG and is self powered.

 

[mishtub]

I've never done it so have questions. Can I get a o/a gas rig and practice my way into skilled work rather than going with some type of electric welder? When I say "can I " it's meant to ask is it more practical and/or advisable for a novice.

In answer to the question, Yes it is possible to get a o/a rig and practice your way into skilled work. It most likely would be extremely expensive that way however, IMHO much more expensive than the cost of getting training would be and then getting the rig. Getting marginally proficient at electric welding would also be cheaper by getting training first before acquiring the equipment.

 

[Mobuck]

Untold numbers of farmers had ZERO 'training' in the art of welding. Some got fairly proficient at the job and some never did. With all the 'how to' videos available, it's not that difficult to learn. Getting good enough to sell your services is a different challenge. For years after I retired, local folks would bring me stuff to weld. Most was either too tedious for a real shop to do or the shop was backed up and the part was needed ASAP. I even laid out and fabricated new stuff like big bale spears and loader brackets but there's a limit to how much an old guy can do on a 4'x8' welding table under a shade tree.
The 'new breed' of MIG welder is fantastic and it's hard to believe what a great job they do with minimal input. I don't know how much Son spent on his but it's so far ahead of my mid-grade HOBART that it's amazing.
Cost wise, you should check on the prices of gas and air since those have escalated exponentially the last few years. I think it cost around $150 to trade bottles the last time I had to refill and maybe lots more by now.

 

[krw]

Look at the Hobart Stikmate 160I. A very good lil welder. Runs off 120/240v.

 

[eveled]

I got my start in welding with an oxy/acetylene torch. It truly is the most versatile method. Thin sheet metal to plate steel can be welded with a torch. Plus you can cut with a torch. All with no electricity.

I eventually got a used stick welder for heavy stuff and used the torch for sheet metal. I finally bought a cheap mig welder and wish I did it years earlier.

110 volts flux core wire. Weighs less than my tool box. It’s pretty convenient to use.

 

[Mobuck]

I bought a small Lincoln 110V flux core welder (all I could afford at the time) when I had a bunch of thin wall tubing to weld into framing. It did the job but lacked the amperage and duty cycle to do more. Then I got the HOBART 170 MIG and that was a huge step up. Now we only use the little flux-core welder for tacking stuff or minor repairs where we only have 110V power. My portable HOBART stick welder is 200 AMP(?) but is limited in duty cycle when burning 5/32 rod. I built 2 bridges using it but it's much slower than a 'real deal' pipeline welder.

 

[woodsy]

Once I learned to TIG on the job I fell in love with it. Except that they are so dang expensive to buy. Luckily my buddy bought a used one which I can use if necessary (for delicate stuff). In the meantime I use my Lincoln SMAW.

 

[Dave P.]

If I was forced to just have just one welder it would be a 250 to 300 amp tig
inverter with AC capability. You can basically weld anything with a machine
like that. I know..... it would be a slooow way to build a steel trailer, be pretty
though.
Dave

 

[woodsy]

And no slag to knock/brush/grind off!

 

[toysoldier]

There are very few welding jobs that an O/A torch will do better than an electric welder. It's great for cutting, although I have yet to see anyone on TV who seem to know how to set the flame properly. I got my first instruction from my father, a shipyard welder in WWII.

 

[graygun]

There are very few welding jobs that an O/A torch will do better than an electric welder. It's great for cutting, although I have yet to see anyone on TV who seem to know how to set the flame properly. I got my first instruction from my father, a shipyard welder in WWII.

Watched a vid and the guy said "A before O or up you go".

 

[graygun]

Well,I bought a flux core welder from HF;it's a Titanium 125. Also bought a auto-darkening helmet.

Once the arc starts,I can't see the workpiece. It seems I need magnification and maybe different tinting.

 

[NikA]

Once the arc starts,I can't see the workpiece. It seems I need magnification and maybe different tinting.

Even the HF auto darkening helmets should have a knob to adjust tint. The one I have goes all the way to 13 which IIRC is dark enough to look straight at the sun without damage. Tint shades are on a log scale, each unit increase halves the amount of light let through.

I think mine is set to ~10 for welding.

 

[Dave P.]

If you have variable shades on that helmet try somewhere between 8 or 9 as a place to start.
I use a plus 1.5 "cheater" lens in my mig helmet and like to get my face down to about 12-18 inches
from the work to see the puddle well. The flux core will make it a bit harder to see as well.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Well IMHO the airplane in the building is what you use A/O on since the 4130 is from .028 to .065. The building that the airplane is in is what you use stick welding on since it is a lot more welding to be done on thicker metal. Stick is a whole lot faster than A/O. Then you use the A/O for cutting.
I also have two TIG machines that I gave up on learning how to use them on anything that flies. :wink:

 

[graygun]

Is TIG the hardest to learn ?

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Is TIG the hardest to learn ?

It is for me that is why I gave up on it

 

[Dave P.]

Is TIG the hardest to learn ?

It is for me that is why I gave up on it

That's kind of surprising because people that are used to gas welding
usually pick it up quickly.

I find it fairly easy to teach someone tig basics. What's good about it
is it can be done very slowly if needed vs. a mig or stick welding.
You can basically do one "dab" at a time on some material.
Strike the arc, ramp up the heat and direct it till the puddle forms,
add a bit of filler and move on pretty much whatever pace you need
to control the puddle.....a lot like a gas weld.
On a mig or stick when you strike the arc or pull the trigger you
better be ready to move.

 

[woodsy]

I agree with Dave. We had a welder at our surgical instrument plant who could weld .004" wall SS tubing (1/4" dia.) to 1/2" thick plate, and it would withstand the 2000 psi test. He was amazing. Taught me, though I couldn't dream of becoming as good as him. He also regularly made thermocouples .020" dia. from copper-constantan wires. Maybe it was our machine, a Linde?

 

[blume357]

I played with my father's arc welder when I was very young and kind of liked messing with it.... I did use it one day for probably an hour or so with just a light tee shirt on and the next day had probably the worse sun burn of my life.

I bought a basic arc welder a few years ago for one simple project and just about all I managed to do with it was punch holes in the steel I was practicing with... I think I need to go back and at least read the book.

 

[chm270]

Well,I bought a flux core welder from HF;it's a Titanium 125. Also bought a auto-darkening helmet.

Once the arc starts,I can't see the work piece. It seems I need magnification and maybe different tinting.

I have been a mechanic most of my life and took up some "recreational" welding just to learn how to do it.
(Bought a Hobart 140, and use argon with it, which also makes a big difference IMO).
I had a difficult time seeing just as you described.
Someone asked if I used "readers", and I do.
Simple fix was to wear the readers under the helmet.
Made a WORLD of difference for me.

 

[graygun]

Well,I bought a flux core welder from HF;it's a Titanium 125. Also bought a auto-darkening helmet.

Once the arc starts,I can't see the work piece. It seems I need magnification and maybe different tinting.

I have been a mechanic most of my life and took up some "recreational" welding just to learn how to do it.
(Bought a Hobart 140, and use argon with it, which also makes a big difference IMO).
I had a difficult time seeing just as you described.
Someone asked if I used "readers", and I do.
Simple fix was to wear the readers under the helmet.
Made a WORLD of difference for me.

Same situation here,I need to try that.

 

[woodsy]

For arc welding (SMAW) sometimes a local trade school offers night-time classes for adults for a small fee. Is a frequent thing around here, for many skills and occupations. Before I got my "heavy" woodworking equipment I would take a furniture course or two, just to use their equipment.

 

[George]

I didn't read all of your replies. I learned on acetylene oxygen. Like others have said you can brase a lot of metal and it is pretty darn strong for a lot of stuff not bad for auto body work if you don't mind using a brazing rod instead of Steel to join metals. Then heat and hammer weld as usual. It's very thin metal is in your future and a lot of it I would go with the TIG welder it splatters less than a MIG end easier to learn how to weld Light Metals with does a wonderfully clean job I'm talking like body panel thickness! Stick welder practice practice practice. Easiest rods to use ar contact type rods I believe they end in the number 14! That way the rod maintains the gap for you and you just control the speed and or motion. Extremely easy to use once you have a little practice if you use your on heavy metal! Just go for that break a roll of Dimes open and spread them out the welds should look nice and clean and even. If it don't grind It Off do it again! It's a cheap way to learn how to weld. MIG welding I have not done! But been a lot of shops where they were very good with it. Wire flux welding is doable is Messi splatters a lot and I personally don't care for it. But a lot of people get good at it. Oxygen acetylene welding is the hardest of most to learn in my opinion and do right. But if you use that type of setup for a lot of braziing it kind of comes natural. Very good for light metal accept it does war panels very easily so you have to use methods to avoid warping. Sorry for all the typos using text-to-speech on my phone and I can't even see the darn thing anymore! Good luck! George if you end up with a stick welder arc welder get a good one AC DC is nice at least 225 amps with a decent duty cycle and never never use a long extension cord that is not super heavy always better to use longer welding leads to get to your work! They suck power I've had mine for about 45 years it's the old Sears 225 AC welder. Still works like a charm! DC will allow you to weld upside down easier also most have the capability to charge automotive batteries! There that should do it sorry for the long post!

 

[George]

Oh one last thing auto darkening helmet makes everything easier particularly when learning! They used to call me Blinky before they came out with them! LOL!