We are our own worst enemy sometimes

[contender]

As gun owners we can be our own worst enemy. The anti-gun types LOVE it when we disagree with each other.
They like it when they can divide us.
And the media loves to portray us as "bad" people.
We don't help any of this with our own behavior.
Poor gun handling skills.
Immature acts with firearms. (Such as putting a hard kicking gun in a new potential shooters hands, THEN videoing it, laughing,, and posting it on the internet.)

But recently reading a thread on the cast boolits forum made me really sad. It proves how selfish, or scared or whatever many people are.
It was about how a guy was asking about what private gun range rules we have (for those of us with gun ranges.) He was asking because a friend or co-worker wanted to come to his range & shoot.
An honest request by both parties.
Sadly,, many, many posters put forth many things I understand,, but find disheartening.
Things like; "I don't talk about my guns or shooting with anyone."
"I don't allow anybody but family on my property, and they can't bring anybody."
"Letting people know you have guns invites trouble."

Many, many very negative comments about gun ranges on private property.

Yes,, I know people can be a problem. Yes, I know they may try & abuse the privilege of using your range. Yes, I know they may damage your property. Yes,, I know they may think they can do as they please on your property.

But it's quite simple to stop problems.
Post your property, legally.
Catch a trespasser & call the legal authorities AND push for prosecution. Use SAFETY as your argument.
Post safety rules for everybody to read AND enforce them strongly.
Anybody who wants to shoot must be informed of your rules, and let them know that the very first infraction of your rules will result in privileges being taken away, permanently.

But by NOT allowing a friend, co-worker etc to occasionally visit & shoot is taking away from our rights.
We are losing places to shoot all the time.
I hear people say; "I used to have some guns,, or hunted,, but I don't have anyplace to shoot or hunt anymore."

By NOT inviting the occasional person to the range,, ESPECIALLY our youth,, we are our own worst enemy.

I own a gun range. It's private,, yet we do hold USPSA matches here as well as instructional clinics. And I have people all the time want to shoot here. I try to be as friendly & accommodating as I can,, but the person(s) asking MUST abide by my rules & my timetable. And I have had a few people I've banned for unsafe behavior. And I've invited a LOT of LEO's to visit & such. Having them around helps keep trespassers & undesirables from trying to use my place.

But if we don't promote ourselves, AND get people shooting,, we will lose a lot more than we know. We are our own worst enemy by NOT promoting safe shooting & education.

That post on the CB forum,, just made me very sad,, seeing the attitudes put forth. I'm NOT saying people haven't had problems. But problems can be solved.

 

[blume357]

Recently got to gather with a very small group at a guys private range. He and I met and had even discussed what we were gong to do that day. The two folks that showed up for training... one had shot before but never had any formal training, the other was a total newbie. We started with the owner explaining the range and some of what he wanted to do that day, then I did the lesson on gun safety. We then proceeded to let them shoot individually and the owner loaded one round in the semi-auto pistols we were shooting for each of them to shoot. We did this for a while with different calibers and handguns. It went well and all was safe.

I also did a bit of preaching, (who me?) in that I stated that most Americans are just totally ignorant about guns, how they operate and the safe handling and shooting of them. I then went on to say that in my opinion this includes most people who own guns.

Having been to Contenders multiple times, I've always felt safe there.

 

[Fox Mike]

I feel safer at Contenders range than anywhere I have been to since I removed my uniform (military ranges are STRICT). The poor gun handling skills he spoke of are the reason I am very vary of the locals. There are only two ranges in my area. One is an indoor and the other is a State operated outdoor. I try to go to either midweek to stay away for the "rambozos". There is rarely a RSO on the outdoor except on weekend. The last time I was at the outdoor I had finally gotten my target set and guns laid out ready to shoot. Some 'idiot' came in and was 'fast drawing' his revolver and sweeping everything in sight, me included. I spoke to him about it and got some smart a-- answer. I called "CEASE FIRE", gathered my targets, gun, and equipment and left. If he was going to shoot someone it wasn't going to be me.

 

[Johnnu2]

I would think that if you have really fabulous liability insurance, there should be no major problems with select guests at a private range. But, then again, I have no knowledge from which I speak.

J.

 

[contender]

Thanks for the kind word guys.

Insurance. Yes,, my range is used by others,,, so we do carry liability insurance.

And yes,, unsafe gun handling happens all the time. Yes,, we do have untrained people on ranges doing stupid stuff or ignoring range rules and basic safety rules.
This is WHY we need to try & HELP others. Not turn them away and eventually out of the sport. Even the ones who THINK they know what they are doing can be re-trained.
A good example;
Just last weekend,, we had my monthly USPSA match here. I had some shooters who it was either their first time at my range,, OR I know of (2) who had NEVER shot a USPSA match. All shooters get a safety briefing prior to the match starting. One new shooter,, brought here by one of my regular (and very good safe competitors,) was very polite & up front about it being his first time. His friend,, with him standing there,, I said; "He's on your squad,, it's your responsibility to be his mentor & show him how to be safe here." At the end of the match,, that new guy was extremely happy & had a great time. He came to me & praised everything.
The other guy who was new to USPSA had actually shot Glock competition,, so he wasn't a total newbie. Yet,, I didn't see him when he first arrived,, but something told me he may have broken one of my range rules. So, off to the side,, I quietly & politely asked him how he had put his gun in it's holster & on his person when he arrived. He allowed he'd done it at his car. INSTEAD of exploding & berating him for this,, I calmly & politely explained my rule of; "No gun handling anywhere except in a safety area or under the control of a RO, in a bay. That guns must be in a bag or case & only uncased & holstered in a safety area or under RO control." I also added another rule for his knowledge. "No loaded guns,, even your CCW guns on my range except when given the command by the RO to "Load & make Ready". (If you have a CCW & arrive here & it's still loaded,, you are required to seek out a RO immediately & go to a safe area to unload & show clear & then bag the gun. Or you can do so,,, OFF my property prior to arrival.)

We diligently need to help people be safe & get involved in shooting. We can be safe AND enjoy shooting. Get people involved,, don't turn them away.

Oh,, and to show we do enforce the rules.. my squad,, first stage we were shooting,, and a new to us here competitor, broke the safety rule of "Do not break the 180 degree line." He had to back up to engage a target he'd forgotten, and when he turned to do so,, his gun muzzle went from a downrange position to pointing uprange a little,, passing our safety 180 line. I immediately stopped him, and gave him the safety commands & explained what he did. He said he realized it, and I also had 3 others who witnessed his violation. He got a Match DQ & had to leave. While his gun was actually pointing at a side berm,, it broke the 180 line. It's a rule. He can return for another match but he was done for the day.
Safety first.

We don't need to make people feel unwanted or anything. We need to encourage people to go shooting.

 

[sceva]

I understand what you mean about coming off ignorant. I'll likely start something here but calling things by cutesy names like Boolets, Shotties, Gats, heaters, etc also comes off as ignorant in my opinion. So does calling cartridges bullets instead of ammunition or cartridges.

 

[blume357]

I would think that if you have really fabulous liability insurance, there should be no major problems with select guests at a private range. But, then again, I have no knowledge from which I speak.

J.

Here's how insurance works if you are a little guy.... 'they' tell you to incorporate and get an LLC or such in case something bad happens... then the folks hurt have to sue the Corporation and if they win insurance will pay. (usually there is just a settlement What 'they' don't tell you is after the injured win if they feel the payment or settlement was not adequate they can then sue the active directors of the corporation.... guess who that is? What I got from that is the lawyers get paid twice.

 

[Kevin]

Contender, in your first post you said there were comments about not talking about guns with anyone. Or if people know you have guns it invites trouble.

Those comments aren’t wrong.

I talk about guns with. Other people I know have guns. But some of my neighbors, I would never tell them I have guns in my house.

I belong to a private gun club, when I go shooting, there is hardly anyone there. So we don’t have a range officer. Now they do hold competitions, and then there is a safety officer.

But members are allowed to bring guests. And as far as I know, we’ve never had any real problems.

 

[peachhead]

@Kevin that's the way my range is.
I have a place to shoot at home but it's for me, not for public consumption.
I am a certified instructor, but I very rarely get to hold any classes because I don't have a range that I can go to. My range is a private non-profit range and allowing me to do something there for money screws up their non profit status.
There is a range at the local WMA but it is about an hour away and you don't have any control over who's there.

 

[GypsmJim]

I understand what you mean about coming off ignorant. I'll likely start something here but calling things by cutesy names like Boolets, Shotties, Gats, heaters, etc also comes off as ignorant in my opinion. So does calling cartridges bullets instead of ammunition or cartridges.

Gats and heaters go back to the roaring twenties. I have not heard either used on a gun forum (of course I don't read ALL the posts)

A bullet means just that. But if you say a boolit everybody knows immediately what you are talking about. Just like "45 Long Colt". that term cornfuses nobody.

 

[Kevin]

Someone used the term Gat here last week or so.

In Illinois, I’ve said this before, the best gun shop I think I’ve ever been too, Gat Guns.

 

[contender]

I agree that some people are of the type you really don't want to discuss guns with. But that's where good judgement on personalities comes into play. By getting to know people a bit,, you can often discover they may be "better,,,," or even "worse,,,," than you first thought.
Just today,, I met my youngest at the local Lowe's. it was raining & we had to swap a few things. Nobody was under the loading area,, so we pulled under that area to avoid the rain. He's LEO,, and in plain clothes. But he had his gun & badge visible. I had my gun on me, OC. Well a guy came out with some lumber,, and asked if we were going to long there. I said "No,, and we'll move so you can load." He went for his truck, and my son left, & I parked away from the loading area. As I walked back, the guy had gotten his truck in there & was loading. I went over & thanked him for his patience & understanding. He said "No problem,, were you getting a ticket?" I chuckled & said I wasn't & that it was my son. then he saw my gun & chuckled. He'd gotten a ticket parking there once. He asked if I was also LEO. When I said no,, he said; "I see your gun & just wondered. Don't get me wrong,, I'm a supporter of the Second Amendment. And I just THOUGHT I liked guns until I moved here from Indiana and met my neighbors!"
A polite & fun firearm discussion ensued.
By simply being polite, and open,, we both enjoyed ourselves. And just that little experience shows we can always expand our love of the Second, our appreciation of firearms, and often turn into an educational experience.

 

[blume357]

I made this analogy in another thread recently and so forgive me for repeating myself. I belong to a super liberal 'church' and have made the determination that the majority of the members are very anti-gun. I made this assumption and kept my feelings pretty much undercover. First thing that happened was one of the other folks on our somewhat safety team found out I owned a Walther PPK and he had always wanted one... we ended up going to a local indoor range and shooting it as well as some of my pistols and his. I tried to talk him out of it but he ended up buying the PPK from me. Then last year I learned that another member had a You Tube Channel and it was all about shooting .... who would have thunk it. We, pro-gun members, still stay undercover and such but it is comforting to know I'm not alone.

 

[Fox Mike]

Was at our bible study group for the first time and after the discussion period we were all standing around the dinning room table and a gun discussion started. There were probably 20 individuals at the gathering and suddenly I found that about half of us were carrying. A LEO, a minister, two deacons, a soldier, and a few of us 'retired' folks.

 

[contender]

Blume & Frank,, y'all are both finding out exactly what part of my thought process is. By not being so secretive or hidden,, we can often find like minded people around us. But as I mentioned,, using good judgement about the person is a big part of things. Both of y'all were with your church groups,, and THEN discovered other gun owners.

In my job,, often people expect me to have firearms. They often automatically equate wild animals with firearms. So,, I do get more opportunities to discuss gun stuff.

But the bigger disappointment is when I saw all the very negative stuff about NOT sharing a chance of actually going shooting with friends or others. This was on the CB forum,, and it was just disappointing. I'm NOT advocating wide open access to your private property or any activities w/o rules or supervision. That can be worse than just saying "no" to someone. But by being willing to help a person learn to shoot,, especially any youth,, is a way to ensure our future.

Where my range is,, and where I live is more rural & lots of folks have places to shoot at their houses. But I also have people from area towns that do not have easy access to a place to shoot. As such,, I do try & allow others to visit when I'm there & do some shooting.

 

[blume357]

100% Contender... if someone shows an interest then I think it is in our best interest as firearms advocates to offer them the opportunity to shoot. I would be very uncomfortable taking or bringing a newbie to a shoot with a lot of people but one on one or such is I think the way to go. At least for me, I can deal with watching one person and helping them out a bit. What you learn over time is even with a good bit of training there is always something to learn from someone else....;)
(I'm winking at Contender right now)

 

[Randyzzz]

Our current church has turned out to be very pro-gun. I was speaking to one of the elders and he jokingly said “any given Sunday about half of the congregation will be carrying”. They used to have a monthly get together at one of the members private ranges. It was called “Bullets and Bibles”, but when ammo costs skyrocketed it went away.

Actually the pastor at our last church is ex LEO and still provides training and shoots competitively. The Pastor at our church before that gave me the honor of being the head of the undercover armed security team.

Point being- I would not have made a lot of friends that I have today if it wasn’t for somehow inserting in the conversation that I’m a “gun guy”.