Vehicles these days......

[gunman42782]

Nothing like spending your day off replacing a alternator. Used to be a 30 minute job on old cars, I been at it the better part of two hours. Actually had to take the flipping front tire off to get to the bottom bolt. Had to take radiator shroud off to get it out! Why can't they make them easier to work on??? Oh, because that way you can spend even more money by taking it to the mechanic! And to gripe a bit more, I remember when a alternator cost about $30. This one cost me close to $200! Absolutely ridiculous! 2005 Chevy Colorado by the way, with almost 240,000 miles on it, so I guess I shouldn't complain!

 

[Colonialgirl]

Was that a "NEW" alternator ? Try pricing a "rebuilt" unit, they are generally cheaper. That's what I use to do with my '87 Volvo and with my '76 Fiat sport spyder.

 

[pete44ru]

.

Being retired now, I generally use the EASY button, and have my mechanic/son throw one on @ his work. . :mrgreen:

I gave up working on my own vehicles many years ago, when I realized that I made 3x as much @ work than what I could pay a mechanic to do.

.

 

[graygun]

I replaced the rear shocks on my "new" (2003,bought last month) F-150 today. The left one was only connected on the bottom,upper stud was apparently sheared. Not much room to access the top nut,took awhile.

 

[SAJohn]

I own a 1974 Ford F-150 with the unbreakable straight six engine. Because the engine bay is sized to accept a large block V-8, there is fantastic room under the hood to work. I can actually stand on the ground inside the engine bay to do some of it. Try that on any new truck.

Colonial Girl, Back in 1969 I bought a brand new Fiat 124 Sports Coupe. It was not the most reliable car I have ever owned but it was a hoot to drive.

 

[GunnyGene]

Trust me, there will come a day when your vehicle will have a small sign on the hood that states:

"No user servicable parts inside. Authorized personnel only beyond this point." :wink:

 

[Mobuck]

It's amazing that folks will trust a vehicle to judge distance and apply the brakes or let it take control while passing another vehicle when I find you can't even trust the ventilation system.
I've been hearing an odd sound emanating from the ductwork in my "new to me" 04 Chevy. Last Friday I found the problem when the A/C shut off and the heater turned on full blast. How would that have gone if it had been some sort of steering/brake control system?

 

[WAYNO]

Trust me, there will come a day when your vehicle will have a small sign on the hood that states:

"No user servicable parts inside. Authorized personnel only beyond this point." :wink:

Mine has said that for many years, even without so many words.

Without specialized tools, specialized training, and a lift, not to mention a grease pit to capture the drained fluids since much of it is not capturable without dumping much of it on the ground, my time is worth more than I'd save by doing my own maintenance.

 

[Fox Mike]

Had one car that the easiest way to replace the alternator was to remove the right side tire/wheel and driveshaft/CV joint. It was actually located behind and near the bottom the engine block. Of course the first one I replaced I got from Auto-Zone and it lasted two whole days. Took it back and got my $$ back, went across the street to Advance Auto and got one that lasted till I got rid of the car years later.

 

[wolfsong]

"Of course the first one I replaced I got from Auto-Zone and it lasted two whole days."

Auto-Zone should have a drive-up return window for faster return service. Same with Pep Boys. I wouldn't buy an air freshener from either one.

 

[Poco Oso]

"Of course the first one I replaced I got from Auto-Zone and it lasted two whole days."

Auto-Zone should have a drive-up return window for faster return service. Same with Pep Boys. I wouldn't buy an air freshener from either one.

You mean a walk up return window, dontcha? :wink:

 

[mjpchief]

Trust me, there will come a day when your vehicle will have a small sign on the hood that states:

"No user servicable parts inside. Authorized personnel only beyond this point." :wink:

In the near future they will be like a bic pen. When they run out of fuel you will replace it.

 

[57springer]

"Of course the first one I replaced I got from Auto-Zone and it lasted two whole days."

Auto-Zone should have a drive-up return window for faster return service. Same with Pep Boys. I wouldn't buy an air freshener from either one.

Their parts are on par with any other parts store :roll:

 

[Fox Mike]

"Of course the first one I replaced I got from Auto-Zone and it lasted two whole days."

Auto-Zone should have a drive-up return window for faster return service. Same with Pep Boys. I wouldn't buy an air freshener from either one.

Their parts are on par with any other parts store :roll:

Cannot agree. Getting a little 'off topic" here but. My buddy needed a bleeder valve for his truck. Went to Auto-Zone and they sold him the one they said fit it. He brought it back to my place where his truck was sitting up on jack stands. The part they sold him wasn't even close to what he needed. He took it back and once again, on my advice, went across the street to Advance Auto and got the correct one. About the only thing I might buy at Auto-Zone is spray paint. They can't screw that up.

 

[contender]

I've had a saying for close to 30 years now. It goes like this;

"One of these days,,, I'll be in a social situation, and I'll casually ask a stranger; "What do you do for a living?" And then he replies, "I'm an automotive engineer!" When the silly SOB wakes up in the hospital,, I'll be right there,,, to show him what happened,, AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Due to the methods they use in manufacturing vehicles anymore,, user friendly maintenance is about gone. They want it that way. Take away the shade tree mechanic,,, the guy who loves to tinker on cars, and in general,,, appreciates fine machinery. That leaves the factory service trained monkeys who only know to replace a part,, that the book tells them MIGHT be the problem,, all while charging a set shop rate of labor & materials. Huge profits in it for them.

Well, I've said my piece often and in many places. I never had the chance to meet an automotive engineer,,, until about 1-1/2 years ago. It was a social setting,,, and we were all enjoying a friendly game,, of Blackjack. I was at a gaming table in Las Vegas. One of the WORST places to beat the crap out of a guy,, due to security & all.
Picture this. At the gaming table,, all seats full. All of us enjoying ourselves,, and getting to know one another a bit. This guy, 2 seats away from me mentions he's from NYC. Later discussion,, he also mentions he's 27 and has brought his younger brother to Vegas for his first trip. He also mentions he's an engineer. Now,, he's young, strong,, about 6'1" and about 200 lbs. I figured he must be something like electrical engineer or something else,, NOT automotive. But since my friend who was with me is a retired GE engineer,,, I asked this young man,, "So, what kind of engineer are you?" To which he replies,,, "I work for GMC."
My mind races,,, "Who do I know in Vegas that can bail me out? I'm older & fatter,, but definitely meaner & with over 30 years of pent up anger over the stupid ways things are being built. I believe I can take him. I don't need to get thrown in jail in a town like Vegas,,,, where the MANY cameras will show my direct & violent attack upon him.
Well,,, after a few hands of Blackjack,, I politely (as politely as I can through clenched teeth,) ask him; "Do you do any of your own maintenance?" He replies; "I change my oil in my Silverado." I press on,, asking; "No,,, I mean REAL maintenance like an average mechanical guy can do?" To which he replies; "No,, I let the shop handle any of that stuff."

Now,, all this is while we are playing cards. So, finally, I say to him,, My 30 year long saying about automotive engineers. I figure if HE starts it,, I may get off the hook. And I follow it with; "You should get out & actually work on a vehicle to see what it takes to remove a starter, or do a transmission filter & fluid change. Or even better,, replace a radiator."

He sits silent as the hands are played. After a few hands,, he cashes in & leaves the table.

I MISSED my chance. I now know that God does have a sense of humor,,, but maybe,,, just maybe he also has a sense of human justice,,, and will give me a second chance. (Ok Ok,, I can hope!)

But it is sad that we can no longer buy a vehicle w/o a computer,, or any of the MANY gizmos that a lot of us find unnecessary. But if they want to give us this stuff,,, they SHOULD make things easier to work on.

 

[Dan in MI]

Actually you only want to kill the packaging and serviceability engineers. The rest of us hate them too.

AND all the new computer raised kids designing the climate controls and instrument clusters etc... that no longer do what you want, but what these think you wanted it to do. (even though they barely can drive) Give me three knobs, or two slides and switch. I don't need to hit six buttons or punch a screen twelve times to make the airflow go where and how fast and warm I want it. And then do it again because I cycled the key and it reset.

 

[graygun]

I bought a 81 C-10 a few years ago because it's old school...easier to fix.

 

[Poco Oso]

Love my trusty old '79 F-150 4x4. Received my ex-wife's 2002 Ford Exploder as part of the settlement. Biggest pile of junk I've ever turned the key on. Computer or electronic everything. I swear, you can watch things breakdown while it's parked.

 

[redhawker]

I had a '54 GMC with a 248 CI straight six engine. It had 2 radiator hoses, 2 heater hoses, 6 plug wires, and a coil wire and that was about it. If you needed to you could stand inside the engine bay to work on the engine.

 

[Mobuck]

I seldom take a vehicle to a "mechanic"--just my nature. In 2017, due to my bum shoulder and other issues, I took the old 2000 K2500 in for an intake manifold gasket replacement. This local fixit shop is operated by the husband and son of a woman I went to school with and the shop does a LOT of GM work. We went over what was getting done and the estimated cost. In the end, even though this was someone I knew and we'd discussed the repairs, the bill was 25% over the estimate and several "associated" parts were replaced w/o my approval.
I simply don't have much faith in repair shops of any sort although I do have a local starter/alternator guy who's never (yet) mucked up a repair job or shafted me on cost. This guy even cut the cost of an alternator repair by 1/2 when I told him it was for an old tractor my blind Son was fiddling with.
I was well on my way to becoming an "engineer" when other obligations disrupted my plans but I would hope that if I had finished that degree, I would have had more common sense than the average.
As Contender commented, I've spent hours brain storming how/what I'd do if I got my hands on the designer of some of the equipment I've had to deal with over the last 1/2 century.

 

[Fox Mike]

As many know I was a helicopter mechanic. I had placed a request for a change of procedure for one specific inspection requirement on the Cobra engine oil level test. If done as it was presently written all it proved was that the light bulb would illuminate. Our Cobra instructor pilot and I worked on the problem, literally for days, and wrote up a procedure that actually showed that the low level "system" was working as designed. We sent it in to have the manual changed to reflect the new 'correct' procedure. An 'engineer' called me and asked why I had submitted such a change request. I explained the problem and how we made the determination it was incorrect as written and what we did to incorporate the correct procedure that actually proved the system check would now work. He said that the was it was presently written was correct and no change was required. I asked if he had ever actually gone to a Cobra and performed the test and tried the way we suggested. He said he didn't need to actually work on it as he was a 'trained engineer' and knew what he was reading.
Sometimes you just can't fix 'stupid'.

 

[contender]

"He said he didn't need to actually work on it as he was a 'trained engineer' and knew what he was reading."

And FM,,, that is EXACTLY why I want to inflict server pain & suffering upon such idiots. They do not have actual, hands on, WORKING knowledge of the things they design.

I could relate many, many jobs I've done on vehicles,,, that IF,, IF,, they had been engineered properly, would have been a LOT simpler & save a lot of time. One example;
1989 Chevy S-10 Blazer. Transmission fluid & filter change. Requires the removal of the pan to replace the filter. Well, the exhaust pipe off the manifold was in the way by 1/2" to where no amount of wiggling would allow it to come out. It required me to remove the exhaust manifold, and part of the exhaust pipe to get the pan down & out. A simple bend in the pipe,,, offsetting it just enough to reach that pan properly was something that could easily be done, and NOT affect ANY other part, or performance. If an engineer had also been a wrench monkey,, and had tried to do the transmission job,, he would have caught it,, and FIXED it BEFORE production. But nope,, they do NOT have field experience.
But,,, I'm even willing to allow the engineers to not be wrench turners,, BUT if not,, they need to have one as an advisor who DOES do the work before they are allowed to submit any design for production.

 

[wwb]

Spent my career as an engineer in the heavy equipment industry - excavators, cranes, straddle carriers, draglines..... Serviceability and ease of maintenance take a back seat only to performance and safety.

My current truck, a 3/4 ton Chev with the "Duramax" diesel (actually an Isuzu diesel) is a step down in both operator friendliness and maintainability from my older Ford 3/4 ton "Power Stroke" diesel (actually an International diesel). My wife's Toyota RAV4 is a bit more of a pain for most work that her previous car, a Subaru Outback..... but for the driver, it's a giant step back in terms of controls. As with my truck, you need to really take your eyes off the road to do anything..... can't do it with a quick glance or peripheral vision. This is progress?

There was a time, many years ago, when people (almost exclusively guys) who became engineers did so because they were tinkerers from the time they were young. They had to understand how and why things worked as they did. They were generally famous for taking everything apart.... and eventually even putting them back together. A trend I noticed before I retired was that more and more engineers had gone into the field without the "gearhead" background. "Book smart and common sense dumb" was the title we gave them. I could go on for pages, but I'll give one short example:

A large welded structure (approx 11,000 lb) that had one very important dimension that could not be measured directly because part of the structure obstructed a direct line between the two points. The young guy who dimensioned it by simply picking two points in his CAD system had to be taken down to the weld shop, handed a tape measure, and told to check the dimension before it was welded.... only then was he willing to admit that the way he dimensioned it was wrong.

 

[Fox Mike]

Isuzu was mentioned above. I happened to have owned a number of Isuzu autos. The Japanese engineers are no better than the US types. To replace a heater core the entire dashboard assembly had to be removed. Took some REAL engineering genius to come up with that design.

 

[gunman42782]

Well, guys, I am glad I am not the only one who feels this way! It actually ended up taking me over 3 hours to finally get the alternator in and out, and everything put back where is was supposed to be. Had a couple folks tell me a mechanic would have charged me $500 to do the job! Like I said, I used to replace one in 30 minutes, and it cost me about $35! Yep, progress!

 

[Rick Courtright]

Isuzu was mentioned above. I happened to have owned a number of Isuzu autos. The Japanese engineers are no better than the US types. To replace a heater core the entire dashboard assembly had to be removed. Took some REAL engineering genius to come up with that design.

Hi,

Toyota and Subaru have gotten most of my attention when working on Japanese vehicles.

Understanding their engineers is Step One: When working on a Toyota, one starts at the top, and takes stuff off in "layers" until the desired part is within reach. It's tedious at times, but actually not as bad as some. I do admire how they got two cubic feet of "stuff" into a one cubic foot space, though! However, some of that "stupid" engineering makes sense if one figures the engineer has to consider assembly time and ease in his designs. So "laying the keel" as it were, and building up, makes a certain sense if you're running the production line. Anyone downstream of you may suck exhaust, but who cares at that point?

Dunno about newer Subies, but the older ones were a compilation of "all the worst ideas" that were left over after Toyota and Nissan had grabbed most of the better ones. Almost nothing makes sense (to me) when working on those cars.

Methinks that "actual hands on" experience weighs heavily on serviceability issues. Even if one chooses to have the dealership do jobs they would have done themselves in the past, those dealer mechanics are no more fond of "dungeoneering" designs than we peons are, especially when they're working against the book for their pay. Used to be if the book said two hours of labor, an experienced wrench spinner might be able to knock it out in an hour and a quarter or so, letting him move on to another job, and a spiff in his paycheck. Today, I think it takes a really good guy to even match the book times on a lot of this stuff.

Bad engineering costs the customer, too, quite dearly at times. Manager of a fast food place where I stop for coffee every morning has an almost new Chevy Cruze diesel. It had to go in for an oil change: dealer wanted $129 which she thought was ridiculous. Of course, that's also a red flag that the job is more complicated than it should be. She took it somewhere else and paid less. But the next day, driving to work, the engine overheated. Blew a head gasket and who knows what else. Nobody wants to take responsibility, so it may cost her big out of pocket before all is said and done. Dunno how they could screw up an oil change, such that it would cause overheating short of either not putting enough oil in or not tightening drain plug or filter properly and running it out of oil.

But I do know one of the big box auto parts stores bought my nephew a new engine for a late model Mazda mini-van courtesy of a simple battery change! Store installed battery, and within a day or two, engine overheated and cooked (wife driving, had a herd of screaming kids with her, distracted and didn't get pulled over quickly enough.) Turns out the "mechanic" who installed the battery had to move something to even get to it. A screwdriver was involved, and he'd nicked a radiator hose, but said nothing about it, which led to enough coolant loss for problems to ensue. Cost to my nephew for battery, about $139. Cost to store, several thousand dollars!

Betcha that guy never installs another battery that requires more than unscrewing the tail cap on his flashlight...

Rick C

 

[Jeepnik]

And people ask my why my "new" car is a 1982 Jeep CJ-8.

 

[Colonialgirl]

I LIKED my 1987 Volvo; except for replacing a hose which ran under the intake manifold it was easy to work on including replacing brake pads. Did I mention that it had the V-6 engine? Even better was my '69 Alfa, but the '76 Fiat 124 Spider is pretty easy too.
For short cuts on repairs, one really needs to belong to a "fan" web site for that particular auto; That's where I learned how to replace a heater core on my '98 Volvo WITHOUT disassembling the entire dash and it only took 2 hours because I was old and slow.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

If you folks knew what the engineers face in non-negotiable demands and specifications from the sales, marketing, purchasing, manufacturing, costing, and legal departments, you might understand a lot better why things wind up the way they do. I could tell you horror stories . . .

:roll: :shock: :roll:

 

[bearman49709]

I used to own a 1968 Buick Skylark that you had to loosen the front bumper mounting bolts so it would hang down just enough to replace the headlight.