USPS Lost Shipments

[Beaver Creek]

I am a licensed dealer and usually take advantage of USPS Flat Rate Priority shipping cost. My reason for this post is twofold. 1) To report that over the past year I have had 2 lost shipments, the latest being a 2 1/2" Python that has been somewhere unknown in San Antonio for more than 3 months. After contacting numerous USPS officials to try to get this Python delivered I filed for the insured amount of $2500.00 and find that USPS makes it almost impossible to collect for reimbursement. Thus far I have been denied the original claim and 2 appeals and it appears that the premium paid is money tossed away. 2) I would like comments from others that regularly ship firearms as to any losses they have incurred in a similar manner with USPS. I am losing confidence in their service very quickly. Fedex is looking better all the time.

 

[Jim Puke]

PM sent

 

[wunbe]

I stopped using USPS for shipping guns yeas ago when they refused to honor the insurance I bought on a stock they broke in shipment.

More recently they have lost a letter containing a cashiers check. You can't trust the sad sacks to do anything but raise prices.

wunbe

 

[golferboy426]

I had no trouble collecting on a handgun. Did you fill out the statement of shipping firearms form? Did you insure for the full sale value? Why are they denying?

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

We never shipped any guns by USPS out of our shop--always UPS back then, long guns and handguns. And it's been even longer since I did either of my two stints with the PO, but when I was with them the last time, we got a few DCM/CMP M1 Garands thru our office. They could be shipped directly to the customer and I think that's still true. But don't quote me... Whether any handgun shipments came in I dunno.

Anyway, these long gun shipments always came Registered Mail. As I recall, that was a requirement. Even if it wasn't, that's the most secure way to move items thru the US mail--the item was signed for each time it changed hands from original shipper to final recipient, and kept under lock and key most of the time. For example, when our delivery truck showed up on the dock, and the driver had a padlocked sack with "registereds" in it, he'd signed for it when he picked it up at the processing center. Then a clerk would sign his log book that he/she had accepted it, relieving the driver of responsibility, then it was logged into our office book and headed to the safe until someone else--normally the carrier--took it, when they'd sign and log it out. This process continued until the item was finally delivered. If it was not delivered the first day out, it came back, went back into the office book and into the safe for the next day's deliveries. Lather, rinse, repeat? Whoever signed last was responsible for the item... and heaven help the person who lost one.

Might be worth talking to your PO about using this service. It's a bit more pricey than others they have, but their most secure. And don't confuse it for the less secure "Certified" mail. I, for one, would be quite hesitant to put a Python in a regular flat rate Priority box and send it off like that!

Rick C

 

[Beaver Creek]

I had no trouble collecting on a handgun. Did you fill out the statement of shipping firearms form? Did you insure for the full sale value? Why are they denying?

I do everything by the book including the Form 1508 at the PO. It was insured for the full amount and I submitted a copy of my invoice of $2500 to the buyer and copies of a similar item that sold on GB for over that amount. I have taken this up the ladder through St. Louis and D.C. with no help. I have a Postal Inspector working on it as well but they are more interested in the loss of a firearm more than my reimbursement.

 

[hittman]

I'd consult a lawyer.

Some thoughts that come to mind are below. I'm not a lawyer or FFL so feel free to dismiss anything that doesn't apply.

1. File a police report as it's stolen.
2. Have your attorney send an "inquiry" letter to the local Postmaster and/or any other USPS official you think may need to see it.
3. Invoice USPS local Postmaster and/or Accounts Payable for your total costs associated in this incident.
4. File a small claims action against USPS.

 

[golferboy426]

I had no trouble collecting on a handgun. Did you fill out the statement of shipping firearms form? Did you insure for the full sale value? Why are they denying?

I do everything by the book including the Form 1508 at the PO. It was insured for the full amount and I submitted a copy of my invoice of $2500 to the buyer and copies of a similar item that sold on GB for over that amount. I have taken this up the ladder through St. Louis and D.C. with no help. I have a Postal Inspector working on it as well but they are more interested in the loss of a firearm more than my reimbursement.

so what is their reason for denial???

 

[Coop]

BC, I see you are an FFL. I am not. An FFL is the only person permitted to ship handguns thru the USPS to another FFL. YES????

I have not shipped handguns thru the USPS, (I am not a FFL dealer), but I have shipped long guns thru the USPS to out of state FFL holders with zero problems. They were all shipped with insured, adult signature required, etc., and all arrived safely at their intended FFL locations for their new owners.

My lovely wife recently received a damaged piece of very expensive insured artwork shipped from the west coast thru the USPS, upon which she filed a claim for its damage, (broken cover glass/frame), and was promptly reimbursed by the USPS for the damage, subsequently repaired here in Pittsburgh, PA.

Our personal experience with the USPS here in Pittsburgh is very positive.

 

[Mobuck]

Going cheap(Priority Mail-insured) is imprudent when shipping firearms. Yes, I've done it(under $500 value long guns) BUT my recommendation is Registered Mail.

 

[Beaver Creek]

I had no trouble collecting on a handgun. Did you fill out the statement of shipping firearms form? Did you insure for the full sale value? Why are they denying?

I do everything by the book including the Form 1508 at the PO. It was insured for the full amount and I submitted a copy of my invoice of $2500 to the buyer and copies of a similar item that sold on GB for over that amount. I have taken this up the ladder through St. Louis and D.C. with no help. I have a Postal Inspector working on it as well but they are more interested in the loss of a firearm more than my reimbursement.

so what is their reason for denial???

Reason for denial for the original claim was "shipping prohibited items" although I stated this was dealer to dealer and submitted both FFL's. Denials of the appeals 2 & 3 have been insufficient proof of value although I had submitted a copy of the invoice to the intended recipient and a copy of a Gunbroker closed auction showing the bought price of $2550.00. I have one final appeal and am hoping that the Postal Inspectors come through before the 30 day period to file it.

I must state here that an RF member that works for the PO in GA contacted me last night after my initial post with an offer to help all he could to track this package. He has no dog in the hunt but wanted to help. That, my friends, is a tribute to the fine folks on this forum.

 

[ithaca4me]

My gun insurance covers problems in shipping.

 

[OVERLOADDED]

I'm a Postmaster here in Kansas, and next week after the check clears, I will be be shipping a long gun to Colorado, insured for $950.00, Priority 2_3 day service with tracking. I will have the mailing address inside as well, also attached to the bolt that was removed for shipping. A well packaged item should move right along no problem. We photo every Priority package that moves thru the plant, and when I request an investigation, I receive the slide number and truck the item was loaded on. I have to have a tracking number, or article number as in the insured number to get the photo. Overloadded

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Perhaps wading thru this will help folks understand current Postal Service regs on mailing firearms: http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm#ep344361 Be sure to follow the arrows to the end.

The language is typical "governmentalese," but should be understandable if one's not in a hurry.

Rick C

 

[Crytot]

I lost a black powder pistol in the Chicago post office. Similar story. Declined due to shipping a firearm. Appealed and sent them their own regs showing that a black powder pistol was NOT a firearm by their definition. They asked me for all of the paperwork again. Sent it. No answer. Wrote and asked them where my $350 was and they said my response was too slow so they declined my claim. Their insurance is a joke. I had visions of "The Rainmaker" when I dealt with them. Deny deny deny....then settle when sued.

I hope you have better luck.

 

[Wheelgunner]

They sound like Canada Post. When we sent our income tax this year, with a mass of medical documentation, I paid for registered mail to get a proof of delivery signature and I insured the package for $500.00.

Canada Post lost my package and won't pay for the value insured. I was told that, even though Canada Revenue said that they had not received our returns, I should assume the envelope had been delivered. They offered to return what I paid for postage but not all of the insurance cost. They have done neither.

After appealing to their ombudsman I was told "The compensation you are seeking is considered consequential in nature, and based on the Canada Post Corporation Act and the General Terms and Conditions, Canada Post is not liable for any claim arising from the loss, delay or mishandling of anything posted." They still charge people for the service though.

I had to refile everything electronically and for the first time ever, we were audited, because, we did not have our original medical documentation. After jumping through more hoops, supplying scanned copies and receiving help from my member of parliament's office, the audit was taken care of.

I still don't understand how these companies can continue to charge for services they have no intention of fulfilling.

So, if you ever want to use Canada Post or have them used as part of the routing for a US shipment, I suggest that you reconsider your routing.

Take Care

Wheelgunner

 

[cas6969]

I shipped cylinders for 10+ years and they never lost one on me. (Though a few got misplaced for a while.) Towards the end I realized I'd been wasting my money all those years because it would be impossible to get them to pay off on it. And even if they did, they'd only cover the part. Not the installation or shipping both ways.

What I should have done was every time I mailed one, put a couple bucks in a bank account. In short order I'd have had enough money in the account cover any loss myself. (Which never happened, so now I'd have a nice bunch of money saved). Instead I gave thousands of dollars away to the post office for nothing.

 

[Beaver Creek]

I am resurrecting this original post to supply an update on my lost in shipment firearm so as to possibly help other members that may find themselves in the same dilemma. I had posted this on the RF and the Colt forums and I do appreciate all the response from both. I found that about 90% of lost firearms shipped by dealers to dealers were not reimbursed by the USPS insurance even after providing all documents required. Many dealers gave up on the 2nd or 3rd appeals due to the time involved.

For my 4th and final appeal I felt as if I had nothing to lose so in a final letter I changed my tactics from requests to threats and stated the results from the posts on these forums which incidentally has a combined total of 61,000 members. I also stated that upon completion of my study and upon final denial of my claim I would be urging my senators and representative to initiate an investigation into the USPS insurance fraud. I copied my representatives and the Postmaster General with the letter.

Within 2 weeks I received an email and a phone call from a USPS Claims Appeals Specialist stating that my claim had been approved and a check for the total amount of $2500 plus shipping cost was forthcoming. I received it in 3 days.

Just wanted to provide an update in case others may find themselves in a similar circumstance. Incidentally, BATF, USPS nor the Postal Inspectors Office seemed to have much interest in there being a lost or stolen handgun out there somewhere. I would think that would be an easy investigation since it was out for delivery when it went missing.

 

[wixedmords]

Very interesting Beaver Creek. I appreciate the update.

Once nearly 100 percent reliable, the Postal Service is no longer so. I never lost anything up until a few years back, and now am hearing about and seeing a few lost items.

It appears as though the Postal Service is no longer near perfect.

I am glad you gave those who have had past issues another avenue to finalize their issues.

 

[graygun]

I wonder which corrupt so-and-so has the gun.