all hope is lost

[Jeepnik]

There's a Minuteman III launch tonight from Vandenberg. Looking for info on their website I came across a page listing sexual misconduct and the results of the investigations. The first two were reasonable. Both senior NCO's who assaulted lower ranking EM's. Then I got to the third. Two airmen were given article 15's for "shouting lewd comments to another airmen, in the dinning hall, where others could hear".

Those of you older vets like myself likely got heard a lot worse the second we stepped off the bus at out basic training / boot camp. How can we expect young people to be warriors if lewd talk offends them to the point they need senior personnel to intervene?

 

[blume357]

Really depends... on who they were yelling at and who it was as well as what they said....

 

[Jeepnik]

Really depends... on who they were yelling at and who it was as well as what they said....

If words are all that's needed to "hurt" today's warriors, all our enemies need is loud speakers.

 

[Fox Mike]

There's a Minuteman III launch tonight from Vandenberg. Looking for info on their website I came across a page listing sexual misconduct and the results of the investigations. The first two were reasonable. Both senior NCO's who assaulted lower ranking EM's. Then I got to the third. Two airmen were given article 15's for "shouting lewd comments to another airmen, in the dinning hall, where others could hear".

Those of you older vets like myself likely got heard a lot worse the second we stepped off the bus at out basic training / boot camp. How can we expect young people to be warriors if lewd talk offends them to the point they need senior personnel to intervene?

I can't speak for others but way back in 1960, when I went through basic there were no females in the mess hall. I have heard lewd comments put out, in combination with other questionable words, by our DIs. This is today's military and there are male and female now in the mess hall so that may be the reason for the Article 15.

 

[xTopGun]

If words are all that's needed to "hurt" today's warriors, all our enemies need is loud speakers.

none of these thin skins would last a single shift on the street in police work - this is the sort of stuff that the general public expect their police to tolerate on a daily basis - fact . . . . .

 

[contender]

I too feel that the military AND all the way down to kindergarten,, we have slowly & deliberately emasculated men (and some women,) to the point that way too many of our younger generation are too sensitive to darn near anything. They have been brought up in a "soft" society,, where they are taught to "feel good" and "everybody gets a trophy" or whatever.

They are NOT exposed to enough reality to understand & accept hard lessons.

I was reading a post here yesterday about the "Fallen" soldiers, and watched the video about the group.
One very stark comment made me question & wonder it's validity.
"22 Veterans commit suicide every day."

Now,, I'm NOT saying PTSD is not real. Nor will I EVER accuse a vet of not feeling all sorts of bad things after combat etc.

But if we look back to "The Greatest Generation," we see a country that was built by a lot of men who saw or experienced a LOT of bad stuff. But they were raised in a more authentic reality of LIFE, to where they were able to overcome a lot of it.
I'm NOT saying many of the same great people didn't suffer, or commit suicide etc.
But if you can't take young men & women into the military and make them WARRIORS,, by all kinds of verbal & even some physical abuse,, then we are just hurting our own Country.

A local, well known,, former Vietnam POW, Col. Scottie Morgan has spoken about the severe abuse & such that he & other POWs suffered at the hands of the NVA,, that it's humbling to know they survived it.
How the heck are we supposed to have hardened warriors & real MEN & WOMEN in combat if we don't expose them to REALITY??????

Verbal stuff,, HA.

I can agree with a viewpoint that Frank stated. Possible female soldiers around & certain language should not be accepted around ladies.
BUT,, An Article 15 which goes on your record,, seems a bit harsh for anything verbal.
A good DI could "train" someone easily w/o an Article 15.

 

[blume357]

First, I was never in the Military even though I do have a tad bit of military experience .... my first year of college was at the Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina.... One of the few things I learned in that year (actually 9 months) was how to cuss... and by this I mean in rather unique and inventive ways..... at least I heard a lot of it. I still remember that first day checking in... I had never had three people in my face cussing me out before and I thought I was going to fall down my knees were shaking so bad. I flunked out... was not ready for college even though I did learn to manage the 24 hour military part.... if I had not flunked out I'm sure I would now be dead.... from being blown up in some far off land. That was over 50 years ago and there were no women cadets then... the closet was the commandants daughter who I could watch play tennis out of my 3rd floor window.

 

[M118LR]

Seems I recall a time when men didn't use vulgarity around Ladies. Guess if females want equality while in service, perhaps they shouldn't expect the same treatment that used to be afforded Ladies when they were considered the weaker sex?

 

[XUSNORDIE]

I have visited my Son on base at several different Commands. Boot Camp graduation (RTC Great Lakes ILL), his White Rope Ceremony at the Ceremonial Guard (Joint Base Anacostia Boling Wash DC) and his A School graduation (Naval CBC Port Hueneme CA). The loudest, most vulgar language and behaviors I heard/observed was from females. My Son said they do as they please as if they are protected. Address them and you are targeted by them with BS reports of sexual harassment. He was Platoon Leader in A School and had to meet deal with false reports from females who couldn't hack the PT and he would try to motivate them to do better. The SRNCO's and Instructors knew it was BS but they went through the motions. He did say it had become somewhat better after SECWAR's speech. FRI 29MAY26 I'm heading to NCBC Gulfport MS to spend the weekend with him before he deploys to meet up with a forward deployed staging team. I'm sure there will be more observations. I hear plenty of it when he calls me from the barracks parking lot working on his Jeep.

 

[Neon Vernon]

I'm hearing similar, and about O rank females too not just enlisted. Sad and pathetic.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

A good DI could "train" someone easily w/o an Article 15.

My son (22+ years in Army including 6 years enlisted with 160th) lamented this change in "acceptable training methods." He noted that even during his 160th gig (which lasted until 2011 when he went to Fort Rucker for pilot training) NCOs were allowed to give the miscreants the option of "being written up," or being taken "out back to smoke 'em." He said virtually all of the miscreants chose being smoked. He said he, as a 160th platoon sgt., once "smoked" an E-4 to whom he had given the "write up or smoke" option. Afterwards they drank a beer together. The E-4 turned into a very good soldier.

I asked my son if he'd ever been smoked. He said, "one time only (for being 5 minutes late to PT), and forever afterwards I was a model soldier." So, the "old Army" knew there was merit to corporal punishment.

Same lesson my father taught me: he administered behavioral training with his leather belt as a consequence of me losing my temper - once was sufficient.

 

[el caminero]

Mo-o-o-o-m, he's teasing me again!. Yeah, one can tell early-on who is gonna buy a nice safe deskjob, or a set of tools, for their life careers.

 

[Tensaw]

Well the nicest thing that we were called in boot camp was "girls". "you are bouncing girls, keep dressed right girls, keep in step girls... " I can't repeat some of the more common.names.