UPDATE/ PART 2 -- SR1911 Extractor & Other Issues, Help!

[pctech]

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to post an update regarding the issues I have been having with my SR1911. I decided to make a new post since my original one has started to get a bit off topic. Please see my original post here for background info: http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=178315

Anyway, I received the gun back from Ruger today, just over a week after I sent it in. (I was delayed several weeks in sending it in due to personal scheduling conflicts and several mix-ups between Ruger and UPS regarding pick-up.)

The repair invoice shows that my EXTRACTOR was "repaired" and that gun was function tested with 32rds of BLACKHILL 230gr ammo, and 32rds of SPEER 200GR TMJ ammo, using customers' magazine without malfunctions.

I haven't had a chance to shoot the pistol yet, but I did load up the magazine with factory FMJ ammo (also tried some hollow-points) and tried to hand cycle the rounds through the gun. Almost every single round jams sideways without chambering, completely locking the gun up. In addition to the malfunctions while firing the gun, this was one of my complaints when I sent the gun in for repair. This should not be happening!

Has anyone else here owned a 1911 that you could not handle cycle FMJ ammo through?

Visually, my EXTRACTOR looks exactly the same. I am still perplexed why the extractor in my SR1911 has at least twice the amount of space between the extractor lip and the breech face of the slide than the one in my Kimber 1911. The extractor in my Kimber 1911 holds the round tight against the breech face, while the one on my Ruger 1911 lets the round drop free.

Of course I want to fire the gun before making final judgment, but it appears that this gun still has some unresolved issues. I have owned many pistols over the years, including several 1911's from several different companies, and I have never owned one that I couldn't handle cycle FMJ ammunition through.

I will report back once I shoot the gun, hopefully within the next day or two. I have a feeling that this one will be going back to Ruger yet again. 

James

Pictures:

 

[Unk]

The Prince of the Power of the Air at work ..again..maybe. First two pix look like JHP, last like FMC with scaring on case like perhaps loaded and extracted a time of two however it may be your manual manipulation procedure..are you starting with the slide closed on a full magazine and then SLINGSHOTING the slide to load? Or something else?

Sounds like they had a flawless test fire with good ammunition and your magazines.

Shoot it and let us know.

Best.

 

[JNewell]

You need to shoot it. The gun is a semiauto, not a single shot. It needs to cycle under power.

 

[pctech]

Unk,
The malfunctions occurred just as frequently with FMJ as they did with JHP, I just happened to get better pictures with some of the JHP rounds. And yes, I sling-shot the slide closed as described.

I agree that the gun needs to be shot before I can make an informed conclusion. That said, I've owned MANY pistols over the years, including 4 other 1911's, and none of them have any issues hand cycling ammunition. I will be very surprised if this gun functions reliably during regular shooting based on what I'm seeing. Hopefully I'll have a chance to shoot it this weekend and can report back.

I would like nothing more than for this gun to function reliably. Ruger is my favorite gun company and I own more Ruger firearms than any other brand. I had hoped for many years that they would produce a 1911 and I purchased one as soon as they came out. (Once I could finally find one!)

James

 

[mattsbox99]

I just checked 4 of my 1911s, including 2 Rugers and they all hold the cartridge like you have pictured.

 

[pctech]

mattsbox99,

Can you please explain what you mean by your comment? "I just checked 4 of my 1911s, including 2 Rugers and they all hold the cartridge like you have pictured."

All of the pictures in this post were taken while the gun was completely "jammed" as you can see in the pictures. How do your 1911's hold the cartridge the same way?

Thanks,
James

 

[mattsbox99]

There is a gap between the rim, extractor, and bolt face. They don't hold the cartridge tight to the bolt face.

 

[98Redline]

That is pretty odd. In setting extractor tension the first step is to check that a loaded cartridge is held tight on the breech face with only the extractor tension. If there is a gap between the breech face and the rim on the cartridge then it is highly unlikely that everything is in spec.

http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/uncategorized/checking-the-extractor-tension-on-your-1911/

 

[pctech]

I had a chance to fire the SR1911 this past weekend.

The gun is functioning somewhat better, but I am still having some major problems with it.

1. Once a round is chambered, it is impossible to clear the gun without firing the round in the chamber. In other words, if the gun has a round in the chamber and I rack the slide to remove the chambered round, it ALWAYS jams the gun as seen in the picture below. The only way for me to clear this jam is to hold the slide all the way back and push a wooden dowel up through the magazine well at the same time to clear the jammed round.

This malfunction happens with all types and brands of factory ammunition I have tried, and it happens EVERY time.

2. The gun still fails to return to battery consistently. About twice per magazine the slide does not close completely. Sometimes a slight tap on the back of the slide lets the gun go fully into battery, other times it does not.

Other than the two issues above, the gun seems to be functioning reasonably well.
Ideas?
Thanks,
James

 

[Pat-inCO]

Once a round is chambered, it is impossible to clear the gun without firing the round in the chamber. In other words, if the gun has a round in the chamber and I rack the slide to remove the chambered round, it ALWAYS jams the gun as seen in the picture below.
- - - -
The gun still fails to return to battery consistently. About twice per magazine the slide does not close completely. Sometimes a slight tap on the back of the slide lets the gun go fully into battery, other times it does not.
- - - -
Other than the two issues above, the gun seems to be functioning reasonably well.

There seems to be a problem not defined/documented.

First item: Put . . ONE . . round in the magazine, insert the magazine in the well, take a FIRM GRIP on the gun and press the slide release. Does the round chamber correctly (also check to see if the slide is fully forward [in battery])?
- - Side NOTE: USE ONLY NEW BALL AMMO! The round in your latest picture either has been chambered several times or is a reload. In all of this testing, use a given cartridge only ONCE. Put it in a separate box for range use after that.

- - - While I'm sure that many will object to not using the "sling shot" method, we are looking for reliable function, and if it will not chamber a round using the slide release, it is less likely to be fully reliable (I use that method EXCLUSIVELY and have not had a failure to feed in the last several thousand rounds). In addition, the difference between the "sling shot" method and slide release method is only about an eighth of an inch travel and will only effect the chambering if your recoil spring is weak.

Once it is chambered, pull the slide back . . quickly. The cartridge should extract properly.

Your FTRB problem is usually from an over tight extractor, OR, improper lubrication of the slide to frame. Since Ruger got it to fire correctly, I doubt you find the extractor tension to be your problem. How much . . . OIL . . . do you put on the slide channels before you assemble it from a strip down? I use a needle oiler and can put a very fine bead of oil down half of the length of the channel. If all you have is the old fashioned oil can, the drops are HUGE and make it very difficult to lubricate properly. (All of this presumes a dry frame and slide channel)

The 1911 is an aficionado's gun. If this is your first 1911, then you are in the middle of a crash course in learning how a 1911 sounds when properly lubricated. I suggest you see if you can find someone that is a 1911 lover. The average range monkey that owns a 1911 is not good enough. A true 1911 lover will show you many little "things" that make it easier (I'll not take up space for war stories here).

 

[revhigh]

I agree with the above to a certain degree, with the exception being that its an 'aficionados gun' ... The 1911 is a rock solid dependable platform right out of the box .... To put it simply .... They just work.

First ... Stop with the manual cycling stuff. It means NOTHING. Guns don't function like that. I've never done that .... Ever .... With a 1911 .... Why are you doing that and what are you trying to prove by doing that ?

Take the damn gun out and SHOOT IT !

Start with one round in the mag, and work your way up one round at a time.

I've owned 1911's for 30+ years and have never experienced anything like this in 10-15 different guns of various brands.

You're over thinking this. Clean it .... Lube it .... But some QUALITY AMMO, and try it again.

How long are you going to agonize over this before you start changing one thing at a time, and eliminating one thing at a time, to get to the bottom of this ? I'd be willing to bet that if I ran 100 of my reloads thru your gun it would work perfectly.

99% of 1911 issues are AMMO OR USER related. The platform hasn't been around for 102 years because its a problematic design.

Clean it ... Lube it .... And shoot it .... With some QUALITY ammo .... If it works, your problems are a thing of the past.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Sorry to seem harsh, but you're driving yourself crazy changing everything but the most obvious Thing .... AMMO.

Stop with the manual cycling already ..... If it worked perfectly for Ruger ... It'll work just fine for you too with quality ammo, and Ruger isn't using any WWB or Blazer aluminum to test your gun, either.

As a final note ... Run the damn thing dripping with oil. Especially the slide rails. Eliminate EVERYTHING, one thing at a time ... Excessive oil won't cause a 1911 not to function. It may spritz you in the face with oil, but at least you'll know it's not a lubrication issue. Clean 1911's love oil.


REV

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

REV............I like your style and approach to this facet of life 8) Mike

 

[pctech]

Pat-inCO & revhigh:
Thanks for the feedback. Please let me address a few things.

First, this is NOT my first pistol, and certainly NOT my first 1911. This is my 4th 1911, or 5th if you count my original SR1911 which Ruger replaced about a year ago due to a casting flaw on the frame. I have owned Kimber, Springfield Armory, Rock Island Armory, and now Ruger brand 1911's. Combined, I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through my 1911 pistols. I know how they function and I know how to maintain them.

Regarding lubrication. I run my 1911 pistols WET. I use oil on my slide rails, not grease. Usually Lucas Gun Oil, but sometimes Breakfree CLP. These two products have worked very well for me for many years on many different firearms.

Rev, regarding the "manual cycling" of ammunition… One of my problems with the gun is that it cannot be cleared by hand without it jamming up as seen in the picture above. I don't know about you, but there are certain times and situations where I have to clear my chambered guns by hand. Sometimes this happens at the range when a range master calls "cease fire", other times I need to clear the gun at home to clean it or show it to a friend. With this gun, if I drop the magazine and rack the slide to clear the chambered round, I get a malfunction exactly like the one pictured in my post above. This happens each and every time, with many different brands of factory FMJ ammo.

"Try shooting some quality ammunition". I have. I am a reloader and have reloaded the .45ACP cartridge for almost 10 years now. My reloads work fine in all of my other pistols, including my other 1911's. That said, to eliminate my ammunition as a possible variable, I have done all of my tests using Remington UMC and Federal American Eagle factory FMJ ammo. Aside from self-defense hollow-points, these are the only two brands of factory .45ACP I currently have access to.

The gun is clean and has been lubricated properly, and I am shooting good quality factory ammo. At this point I don't see how shooting the gun further is going to solve either of the two problems I am experiencing. In all honesty if this gun can't function properly on my high quality reloads or factory FMJ ammo from two well known companies, it is of no use to me. At that point I would be better off buying another Rock Island Armory or Springfield which will eat & extract anything I put in it.

I'm betting that a properly tuned after-market extractor from a company such as Wilson-Combat would likely solve my problems with this gun.

 

[Richbaker]

What does the ejecter look like?? It's obviously extracting the round, but it is NOT ejecting properly....

 

[JNewell]

I'm betting that a properly tuned after-market extractor from a company such as Wilson-Combat would likely solve my problems with this gun.

A properly tuned "Ruger" extractor would probably solve your problems.

The problem is that he already sent it back to Ruger and it's still malfing.

 

[revhigh]

Pat-inCO & revhigh:
Thanks for the feedback. Please let me address a few things.

First, this is NOT my first pistol, and certainly NOT my first 1911. This is my 4th 1911, or 5th if you count my original SR1911 which Ruger replaced about a year ago due to a casting flaw on the frame. I have owned Kimber, Springfield Armory, Rock Island Armory, and now Ruger brand 1911's. Combined, I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through my 1911 pistols. I know how they function and I know how to maintain them.

Regarding lubrication. I run my 1911 pistols WET. I use oil on my slide rails, not grease. Usually Lucas Gun Oil, but sometimes Breakfree CLP. These two products have worked very well for me for many years on many different firearms.

Rev, regarding the "manual cycling" of ammunition… One of my problems with the gun is that it cannot be cleared by hand without it jamming up as seen in the picture above. I don't know about you, but there are certain times and situations where I have to clear my chambered guns by hand. Sometimes this happens at the range when a range master calls "cease fire", other times I need to clear the gun at home to clean it or show it to a friend. With this gun, if I drop the magazine and rack the slide to clear the chambered round, I get a malfunction exactly like the one pictured in my post above. This happens each and every time, with many different brands of factory FMJ ammo.

"Try shooting some quality ammunition". I have. I am a reloader and have reloaded the .45ACP cartridge for almost 10 years now. My reloads work fine in all of my other pistols, including my other 1911's. That said, to eliminate my ammunition as a possible variable, I have done all of my tests using Remington UMC and Federal American Eagle factory FMJ ammo. Aside from self-defense hollow-points, these are the only two brands of factory .45ACP I currently have access to.

The gun is clean and has been lubricated properly, and I am shooting good quality factory ammo. At this point I don't see how shooting the gun further is going to solve either of the two problems I am experiencing. In all honesty if this gun can't function properly on my high quality reloads or factory FMJ ammo from two well known companies, it is of no use to me. At that point I would be better off buying another Rock Island Armory or Springfield which will eat & extract anything I put in it.

I'm betting that a properly tuned after-market extractor from a company such as Wilson-Combat would likely solve my problems with this gun.

OK ! All that is great to know! Glad to hear you're an experienced 1911 guy. You originally indicated failure to go completely into battery, and this is obviously usually an ammo problem, especially if its just the last eighth of an inch or so. Was this with your reloads or the factory stuff ? I sometimes get that with a reload if the case is slightly stretched or i didn't size it all the way down. Whenever that happens, rather than forcing it into battery, I usually eject that round, and save it. When I get home I'll break the gun down and see if it will drop into the barrel by hand, if it won't, I then look more closely at it, and you can then usually see the reason it didn't chamber correctly. Lets forget about that for awhile. That's an easy fix.

So it seems the only remaining issue is the EJECTION of the round/case .... Not the EXTRACTION of the case ... Am I correct in assuming that ? Next I would try putting an empty fired case in the chamber, and letting the slide slam closed ... Just like chambering a new round. NOW do your manual slide racking, and see if it extracts and ejects properly. If it does, then I would look to overall cartridge length. Maybe they're just a little too long, this could cause the failure to go into battery issue as well. When chambering, if the nose of the round hits the grooves of the rifling, it can slow it up, and cause this issue ... Then nudging it forward can usually chamber that kind of round.

What overall length are your rounds ?


REV

 

[Pat-inCO]

Pat-inCO & revhigh:
Thanks for the feedback. Please let me address a few things.

First, this is NOT my first pistol, and certainly NOT my first 1911. This is my 4th 1911, or 5th if you count my original SR1911 which Ruger replaced about a year ago due to a casting flaw on the frame. I have owned Kimber, Springfield Armory, Rock Island Armory, and now Ruger brand 1911's. Combined, I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through my 1911 pistols. I know how they function and I know how to maintain them.

Then WHY are you asking us about things an experienced
1911 person would be able to take care of himself? :roll:

 

[Precision32]

I've read comments about the space between the breech face and the cartridge case base. There HAS to be a space. The cartridge case feeds up at an angle. If there is too small of a gap, the rim can be caught between the extractor hook and the breech face and stop feeding.

With the slide in hand, you should be able to place a loaded round on the breech face and have the extractor hook hold the round in place as it is shook around. If the round fails to be held in place, the extractor is loose.

I use a Weigand Combat extractor tension gauge set when I adjust 1911 extractors.

 

[edlmann]

What does the ejecter look like?? It's obviously extracting the round, but it is NOT ejecting properly....

I'm betting that a properly tuned after-market extractor from a company such as Wilson-Combat would likely solve my problems with this gun.

A properly tuned "Ruger" extractor would probably solve your problems.

Used to have a 1980ish 70 series Colt that would try to put empties right between my running lights. Had one land standing-up-bottom-down on the bill of my ball cap once.

Obnoxious but talented 'smith tuned the bottom edge and fixed it.

 

[y2k-fxst]

Next I would try putting an empty fired case in the chamber, and letting the slide slam closed ... Just like chambering a new round.
REV

Come on REVHIGH, a know everything fellow like you should know that a 1911 is a controled feed firearm with a fixed extractor. Unless you are talking about something like a Smith that uses a springloaded extractor.

On a 1911 rounds must feed from a magazine, loading a round directly into the chamber and letting the slide slam home is a good way to ruin an extractor, when the extractor has to pop over the rim of the case.