Up Date

[hotrodbob]

Up dated,will I sold the LCP and the LC380. Got a LC9 to replace them. Wanted to not have to worry about 380 ammo. I have 9 all ready. Plus the gun size was the same as the LC380. Wife likes the LC size.

I all so got two more pistols beside's the LC9,SR9c and SR1911. I was able to pickup the 1911 at I feel was a great price. It really look's good.

 

[eveled]

Always nice to eliminate a caliber from your inventory, if you can do it without missing the gun. I think you made a good move. With the new compact 9's available the .380 is pointless (to me anyway). I have been trying to consolidate calibers for a while, I'm down to 4 hand gun calibers, and can't get any lower. .22lr, .38/.357, 9mm, &.45acp. Ed

 

[pjkid]

The only thing wrong with the LCP for a pocket (purse) gun is that is a 380.

Seems ideal to make a 22LR version.

 

[blume357]

I like 380 but I understand where y'all are coming from. If I had the money I might try the new compact 9 from Ruger... then again I have almost as much 380 ammo as I do 9mm.

 

[groberts]

The only thing wrong with the LCP for a pocket (purse) gun is that is a 380.

Seems ideal to make a 22LR version.

Why is that? Do you just not like 380's? 22's are useless as a defense weapon for most people - they just tend to tick someone off.

 

[revhigh]

The only thing wrong with the LCP for a pocket (purse) gun is that is a 380.

Seems ideal to make a 22LR version.

Why is that? Do you just not like 380's? 22's are useless as a defense weapon for most people - they just tend to tick someone off.

No ... People who are not familiar with ballistic performance like to attempt to degrade the 380 by saying its not an effective SD round. That ... Of course ... Is total BS. Proponents of the 45ACP like to say the same thing about 9mm.

To those who say those things I respond with .... Really ? How about you let me shoot you in the chest with a 22LR while you're coming at me .... And we'll just see if all it does is 'tick you off' .... Never had someone agree to that yet .... Those same people would be scared to let you shoot them in the a$$ with a Red Ryder BB gun, and all that would do is sting for a few seconds.

People have been spouting the same old crap for years. The 380 is just fine as a civilian SD caliber .... Unless you're just a mall ninja that has to pretend they're real bad a$$ carrying around a full size 9 or 45 with two mags worth of spare ammo ... And the only reason they have the spares is because they're such a lousy shot that they NEED fifty some rounds to hit the target once.


REV

 

[graygun]

We'll never know how many have been stopped by the "lowly" .22 .

 

[revhigh]

Yeah, I'd say someone who could put 4 or 5 quick shots in a nice pattern COM on an assailant would fare much better than someone who got one off one COM hit and a nick using a full snort 9mm. Don

ONE shot will most likely do (with any caliber) anywhere on their body ....

The chances of having a crazed lunatic attack you that's gonna absorb a bunch of rounds and keep coming is less than hitting the powerball lottery.

REV

 

[hotrodbob]

I was not trying to say that a 380 would not due the job. I did not care much for the LCP and that I liked the LC380 but why not just get a LC9 because I all ready had some 9 pistols and would not have to keep up with more typies of ammo.

I am out to get all of the SR series pistols. I am going this weekend to get a SR22ps witch is hard to find but I found one. Then I will get a SR40. I will have a SR22ps,SR9c,SR9,SR40c,SR40, SR45, and SR1911. I will just need the SR1911commander. All of this are in silver.

 

[Rei40c]

I am out to get all of the SR series pistols. I am going this weekend to get a SR22ps witch is hard to find but I found one. Then I will get a SR40. I will have a SR22ps,SR9c,SR9,SR40c,SR40, SR45, and SR1911. I will just need the SR1911commander. All of this are in silver.

lol your a mad man! But I like it. I like the stainless as well mine is but a word of friendly caution. No matter which you choose you will eventually wish you had the other. Its the grass is greener on the other side of the fence thing I think. I now wish I had a blued sr40c, for no other real reason then I have the stainless.

 

[Rei40c]

Yeah, I'd say someone who could put 4 or 5 quick shots in a nice pattern COM on an assailant would fare much better than someone who got one off one COM hit and a nick using a full snort 9mm. Don

ONE shot will most likely do (with any caliber) anywhere on their body ....

The chances of having a crazed lunatic attack you that's gonna absorb a bunch of rounds and keep coming is less than hitting the powerball lottery.

REV

Agreed when I was wringing my hands over caliber a while back I came across a story about the .45acp and an officer involved shooting. Keep in mind the 2 previous weeks, I've been doing online research and according to what I was reading the .45acp must have had a nuclear warhead in it because it obviously instantly kills anyone who so much as looks at it funny. Then I found this. A real life account.

Very long story short- Officer stopped suspect, bad guy pulls gun, officer fires 5-6 rounds striking bad guy 3 times in the torso. Bad guy falls, stands up and sprints like a track star 3 blocks. They follow the blood trail to a house, now 30 minutes later where they find him hiding in a closet, bleeding but still wide awake.

For me this simplified things, my logic is all calibers can fail. The statistical difference between them is minimal.

 

[toysoldier]

For me this simplified things, my logic is all calibers can fail. The statistical difference between them is minimal.

This is exactly what some very thorough studies of shootings has revealed. Most bad guys will cease and desist when shot, no matter where and with what. There are exceptions; that's why shot placement is important.

I wonder if the focus on COM and "thoracic triangle" may be incorrect. Perforating thoracic injuries may be shrugged off. In my 35 years of experience in surgery, just about anyone who has a serious problem with their gut, be it appendicitis, perforated diverticulum, or bullet hole, has little inclination to do anything but curl up and scream. Gut shooting may not be sporting, but it can effectively stop a person.

 

[OldNavy]

The .22 LR, .32 ACP, .380 are all very lethal.
Unless you are contemplating murder, you are not concerned with lethality. You are concerned with stopping power. You can find stories about 1-shot stops with .22 Shorts and failures to stop with 6 rounds point blank with .44 magnums. The odds, however, favor the larger calibers.

 

[GKC]

ONE shot will most likely do (with any caliber) anywhere on their body ...

I have to give you a little grief over that statement...I'd dare say that shooting an attacker in the big toe with a .22 probably won't stop them, even though they are going to hurt like the dickens later. Now, I may be reading it too literally, but "any caliber" and "anywhere on their body" does bring out the smart aleck in me... :lol:

Not, of course, that I want to be shot in the big toe with a .22, or in the butt with a BB gun...or with anything, anywhere else on me.

 

[Pierow]

.......I'd dare say that shooting an attacker in the big toe with a .22 probably won't stop them, even though they are going to hurt like the dickens later.................

I know you were joking a bit but I have to say, in a gunfight if you shoot a guys big toe off or shot him anywhere in the foot, you got a knock down. If need be you'll have plenty of chances for follow up shots as the bad guy does a Fred Flinstone, Yabba, Dabba Doo dance.

Pierow

 

[George]

""Very long story short- Officer stopped suspect, bad guy pulls gun, officer fires 5-6 rounds striking bad guy 3 times in the torso. Bad guy falls, stands up and sprints like a track star 3 blocks. They follow the blood trail to a house, now 30 minutes later where they find him hiding in a closet, bleeding but still wide awake.

For me this simplified things, my logic is all calibers can fail. The statistical difference between them is minimal.""

IMO I think the key is with any caliber shoot for COM till you see a reaction a few sec. of disorientation whatever it is see it them follow up with well placed head shots right away.. Now a .45 is going to hit hard with any solid hit to any part of the body with the right ammo of corse. Hit a man in the arm get bone the man will react only after he asses the situation. Take you well placed shots.. Even a crazed mas will react to a point, always use this to your advantage. Using this strategy even a .22 is a useful tool!! My way of thinking! George

 

[George]

.......I'd dare say that shooting an attacker in the big toe with a .22 probably won't stop them, even though they are going to hurt like the dickens later.................

I know you were joking a bit but I have to say, in a gunfight if you shoot a guys big toe off or shot him anywhere in the foot, you got a knock down. If need be you'll have plenty of chances for follow up shots as the bad guy does a Fred Flinstone, Yabba, Dabba Doo dance.

Pierow

Yes LOL!! Love this and agree!! Georgre

 

[GKC]

I know you were joking a bit but I have to say, in a gunfight if you shoot a guys big toe off or shot him anywhere in the foot, you got a knock down. If need be you'll have plenty of chances for follow up shots as the bad guy does a Fred Flinstone, Yabba, Dabba Doo dance.

I was indeed joking, mostly...but there are so many variables that come into play in a specific situation that it is impossible to say exactly what will happen. There are many instances of people being shot with a larger caliber in more critical areas and not even realizing it until some time later.

I'd hate to count on a .22 as a defensive weapon! If it was all I had, though, I would much rather have a .22 than just profane insults to hurl. :wink:

 

[groberts]

.......I'd dare say that shooting an attacker in the big toe with a .22 probably won't stop them, even though they are going to hurt like the dickens later.................

I know you were joking a bit but I have to say, in a gunfight if you shoot a guys big toe off or shot him anywhere in the foot, you got a knock down. If need be you'll have plenty of chances for follow up shots as the bad guy does a Fred Flinstone, Yabba, Dabba Doo dance.

Pierow

Is he wearing sandals or flip/flops? Don't think a 22 will do much to steel toed boots. Unless it ricochets up into his private parts.

 

[George]

A .22 will go right through steel toe boots! Yep sure will with ease! George

 

[gramps]

Shooting for the pelvis incapacitates fairly quickly due to the large vessels in the area, plus a fx pelvis bleeds a lot and makes movement painful
gramps

 

[ArmedinAZ]

ONE shot will most likely do (with any caliber) anywhere on their body ....

REV

Well, since this thread is so far off the OP's intent, I'll disagree with you here.

When my dad was in his teens he was out with some guys plinking with .22s. He got shot in the calf, a through n through. He walked home, put a bandaid on each hole and nobody who mattered was ever the wiser. His mother never knew about it. Dad was not a tough guy by any stretch. Do that with any other caliber.

You may kill someone with ill intent with a .22 but it may not be before they do what they intended to do. I'll bet the legendary COM shot is purely luck in most SD shootings.

 

[modrifle3]

I think your old man was pulling your leg. A straight through the meat of the calf shot and no infection, just bandaids??? Maybe a low depth graze. Hey I guess people were tougher then. My buddy took a 1/4 slug from a .22 that bounced off an old car and cried. Lol

 

[modrifle3]

I really think most guns will send the message. Caliber is not that critical to me. Hell I use to carry a .25 colt as teenager. I grew up in the rural south, it wasn't a big deal then.

 

[George]

I don't know looking down the barrel of a .45 speaks louder to me! George
Also bullets tends to sterilize the wound channel they make.. So they say!

 

[revhigh]

Also bullets tends to sterilize the wound channel they make.. So they say!

Who's 'they' ?

A lead bullet covered with cordite, gun oil, and whatever else from the barrel or storage sterilizes wounds ... Really ?

REV

 

[bada61265]

i made the choice from a lcp to the lc9 because .380 ammo is just not to be found anywhere around. i understand if you already had a stash of .380 on hand or a local source that can still manage to stock it, but its a tough one to get here anywhere, even on the internet ammo sights its just never in stock, i can get 9mm practically any day of the week however. A gun isnt much use if you cant find ammo for it. granted that may change eventually. i like the lc9 though and am glad i opted for the heavier 9mm gun as i share ammo now with my xdm 9mm. my xdm is my colder coat weather gun.

lots of debate on the stopping power of 380 vs 9mm, like there always has been debate over all the calibers since i can remember. shot placement is probubly as big a factor in stopping power as is the overall power of the round you shoot. 380 shoots lighter bullets at slower velocities than 9mm, might compare the 38 special vs 357 magnum in revolvers for a similar comparison. ive shot a 38 158gr rnl standard velocity at a old winter jacket over some 2x4s and found the slug did not penetrate the jacket reliably where as a similar 357 round went threw both front and back of the jacket and all six 2x4s ending up a foot deep in dirt on the other side. ive found 9mm is closer to the 357 than the 38 in its ability to penetrate though havnt compared the 380 but would think its down there at 38 levels based on relative ballistics that are published. all that said all loads are not equal in a given caliber and premium ammo is pretty cheap insurance with any sd gun. the loads i had used in the 38 were mild, the 357 were full magnum loads. heavy 9mm bullets perform better than the light ones. 380s chief complaint is you can only start with light bullets and go lighter. but the guns very small and concealable so theres the positive tradeoff and the only way you can get more power in a 380 size gun is with a derringer of some sort.

 

[George]

Also bullets tends to sterilize the wound channel they make.. So they say!

Who's 'they' ?

A lead bullet covered with cordite, gun oil, and whatever else from the barrel or storage sterilizes wounds ... Really ?
REV

I Was talking about jacketed bullets.. Heard of a few different cases many over the years on the news. When a doctor was interviewed about the shooting.. Dr. said that most bullets are left in if they will be too risky to remove with out other complications or are not effecting anything else. His reason ,infection was a greater risk when taking the bullet out. Leaving it in for the reason I stated above.. I know this was the case for at least one person I knew that got shot with a .38. Bullet was in a safe place in his belly as it didn't pass through his stomach muscles.. Bullet was left in he was bandaged up and that was it. I could feel the bullet under his skin! I knew Of at least one other case personally. Person was and is still close to me. She got shot with a .22 magnum extreme close range.. Bullet had completely pass through in one leg lower leg calf and then re entered the other leg at about the same height in the calf then traveled up past the knee into there upper thy stopped near the skin below her butt.. Bullet was a JHP did expand some but not much and was fully intact as that one was taken out being it was visible and poking out the skin.. Doctor was a old timer and pored alcohol in the wound for two weeks to keep it clean.. it was extremely painful every time this was done on the person I knew.. After the two weeks she was put in a full leg cast.. This happened about 40 years ago and the doctor at that time was in his late 60's and drank enough boozes to kill any germs with his breath alone.. George

 

[groberts]

bada61265, so much for trying to get back on subject, huh?

 

[modrifle3]

Interesting...in the old days if there was no internal bleeding or major damage to organs and surgery was very invasive the decision may have been to leave the bullet. Somewhere like the brain or heart area.