Ultimate 45 hunting load?

[tek4260]

I am lucky enough to own one of the fine Mihec 270SAA HP molds and have cast several of the 5 sided HP boolits. I have only loaded them over HS-6 for my New Vaquero so far. I have shot a few deer over the past few years and am disappointed at how long it takes a deer to start bleeding and how little they bleed. Most all have been with heavy 44 and 45 loads. I am thinking of loading some of the boolits over around 24gr of H-110, for use in my Blackhawks, in the hopes that when I shoot a deer with them, the petals of the HP will seperate and leave a jagged edge. I hope this will cause a bit more internal damage and bleeding than relying on the shock of a WFN type boolit. I just can't stand the thought of losing a deer.

Any thoughts on this? Or would I be better off sticking with the 325 LBT and trying for heavy bone?

 

[WESHOOT2]

Your New Vaquero will peel its cylinder walls back.

Please choose an appropriate platform for your heavy loads, or your heavy loads will force a choice.

 

[tek4260]

Edited original post to reflect what revolver will shoot the heavy load.

And, I will have to steal that saying WESHOOT2

 

[WESHOOT2]

Try the 250g XTP-HP over H110.

Or try that cast bullet over whatever (for 1100fps) and shoot for heavy bone.

 

[WESHOOT2]

ps which 'saying'?

 

[pvtschultz]

Your New Vaquero will peel its cylinder walls back.

I'm thinking this one ^^^

I shot your Mihec 270 gr pentagonal hollow points into water (milk jugs) and phone books using that 13.5 gr of HS6 load and in both instances the petals fragmented off but the solid lead base kept on truckin'. They shot very well and I would try them on a deer (I intended on it this year but the deer has other plans...).

I really enjoyed shooting the Hornady XTP's; they are extremely accurate and had no troubles dropping deer from my experience. When fired into water they expand violently but generally hold together. If you are going to go full pressure (30,000 CUP), I would stick with the magnum version as the standard version can suffer from case/core separation.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

I'm curious about the performance of your hollowpoint 45-270-SAA bullet. The standard Keith style bullet has been a very solid performer when driven from 950-1100fps.

Is there something about the HP design that prevents it from opening a decent wound channel? Are you achieving sufficient velocity and total pass through penetration?

No doubt, the Hornady XTP is a good bullet, I used it for a long time and still do in my Win 94 Trapper in 45 Colt. But I prefer the standard 45-270-SAA in a handgun. 13.5 gr of HS-6 will easily take you to 1050 fps with that bullet at under 20kpsi. A classic load of 20-21 gr of H4227 will get you there too at 21K cup. You want to avoid the 32Kpsi 'Ruger only' loads but even a New Vaquero can handle loads in the 22kpsi range.

 

[tek4260]

I guess I posed the question wrong. Do you think the 270 HP loaded at the 30K level would be better than a 325 loaded to the same level? I know that the ears of the HP will separate and leave a jagged tip on the boolit and I think this will cause more damage and a better blood trail. But, with the 270, I am giving up 50 grains of weight. Do you think that will be a good trade off?

 

[pvtschultz]

I still think that the remaining 2/3 of the bullet will still penetrate a whitetail deer lengthwise; probably twice. IIRC, the 270 gr Mihec HP penetrated through four one-gallon jugs of water and then lodged up against the cover of a phone book. I don't think that pushing them harder will have a negative effect, just make the initial "shock" greater when the bullet deforms. If it wasn't so derned cold, I'd load some up with a top load of Lil'Gun and give 'em a try for ya.

 

[tek4260]

No need my friend. I have talked myself into it. Ill be loading some tonight, zeroed in the morning, and in the stand tomorrow afternoon

I have a few 45's that aren't dedicated to any particular load yet so I just have to decide which one to sight in.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

... Do you think the 270 HP loaded at the 30K level would be better than a 325 loaded to the same level? ... Do you think that will be a good trade off?

Well, I don't think loading up a New Vaquero to 30k psi load levels will be a good trade off. It will be pushing your luck. I would definately keep them under 22,500k psi tops or you may, as stated above, "peel your cylinder walls back"!

I do know that within reasonable 45 Colt range a standard 270SAA will give pass through penetration at 1050fps and open up a big enough hole/wound channel to 'let the air out' and make a humane kill.

 

[pvtschultz]

SNIP:
I am thinking of loading some of the boolits over around 24gr of H-110, for use in my Blackhawks, in the hopes that when I shoot a deer with them, the petals of the HP will seperate and leave a jagged edge. ?

 

[2 dogs]

I too have gotten heavily into MiHec's HP molds. I just do not like the way solid hard cast bullet kill. What I have found is that whenever I hit an animal at the center line or a bit above that animal bleeds into his body cavity leaving little or no blood trail. Here in S. Texas that makes it much harder to recover the animal.

So far this year I have shot several pigs with hardcast bullets. The only ones I have anchored on the spot were head shot. The ones I double lunged have done some runnin'.

 

[pps]

Your New Vaquero will peel its cylinder walls back.

I'm thinking this one ^^^

I shot your Mihec 270 gr pentagonal hollow points into water (milk jugs) and phone books using that 13.5 gr of HS6 load and in both instances the petals fragmented off but the solid lead base kept on truckin'. They shot very well and I would try them on a deer (I intended on it this year but the deer has other plans...).

I really enjoyed shooting the Hornady XTP's; they are extremely accurate and had no troubles dropping deer from my experience. When fired into water they expand violently but generally hold together. If you are going to go full pressure (30,000 CUP), I would stick with the magnum version as the standard version can suffer from case/core separation.

I've decided I "need" a blackhawk in 45. I'll be in on a group buy on Mihec's "Ruger only" 320/295 mold. With your load what was your alloy and how fast was this boolit going? The mold you describe that cavity is pretty huge if I remember correctly.....maybe a softer alloy/slower velocity might be in order????

 

[pvtschultz]

You've got it a bit backwards. You use softer alloys with faster powders/light loads (except with high pressure loads with fast powders) and you use harder alloys with slower powders and high pressures. Slow powders don't usually do that well when under loaded.

tek4620 sent me some of his 325 gr Keith SWC cast from wheel weight alloy in a Mihec mold and lubed with a sticky moly concoction (he'll have to explain what it is). I loaded them to the max recommended charge of Lil'Gun for about 1230 fps and my bore was squeaky clean when done shooting. I really liked shooting them and he is the sole reason I've moved up to the 300+ grain club (flatgate didn't help any either).

 

[Quarterbore]

ps which 'saying'?

I think this one - I like it!

Please choose an appropriate platform for your heavy loads, or your heavy loads will force a choice.

 

[pps]

You've got it a bit backwards. You use softer alloys with faster powders/light loads (except with high pressure loads with fast powders) and you use harder alloys with slower powders and high pressures. Slow powders don't usually do that well when under loaded.

tek4620 sent me some of his 325 gr Keith SWC cast from wheel weight alloy in a Mihec mold and lubed with a sticky moly concoction (he'll have to explain what it is). I loaded them to the max recommended charge of Lil'Gun for about 1230 fps and my bore was squeaky clean when done shooting. I really liked shooting them and he is the sole reason I've moved up to the 300+ grain club (flatgate didn't help any either).

I said softer alloy/slower VELOCITY...not slower powder. If your petals are tearing off, it just sounds like the alloy is too brittle or the bullet is being pushed a bit fast.

 

[tek4260]

That lube is the Lyman Super Moly. I like it a lot more that the harder lubes like Rooster. Not as pretty, but its hidden when its loaded anyway. Plus, I don't have to heat it.

As far as the petals tearing off, that is what I want. Everyone says their deer drop in their tracks from a 44 at 1K. I haven't seen that with mine. They like to run, then bleed, and even tho they may only go 50 yards, they are hard to find. I don't want to lose one. I figure that if the petals tear off, that jagged tip has to tear up more meat and cause more bleeding.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Perhaps simply skipping the HP version might be more effective?

 

[Tommy Kelly]

I still think the key is to push bone fragments thru with the bullet. The heavier the bone the better. Move the poi to the center of the shoulder for the heavy bone and splinter it and carry it through with the lead. This will give you the effect you are looking for.

 

[sixshot]

That Mihec bullet is a great one but the bullet hardness needs to match the velocity in order to make a HP work its magic. Here's a formula I've posted before & its worked for 40+ years in 99% of my revolvers.
You can't expect a hard bullet to give you much in the way of expansion unless you are really leaning on it & in that 45 new model that isn't possible.
We'll start at 1000 fps & go both ways to show you how it works. I used this first alloy from a Mihec mould at 1000 fps to take 2 whitetails this fall in my Lipseys 44 special, worked great, both were one shot kills...& in a hurry!

1000 fps I use 60% WW's & 40% pure lead, this is the one I use the most.
1100 fps I use 70% WW's & 30% pure lead.
1200 fps I use 80% WW's & 20% pure lead.

If you want to go slower, it works the same way with good results.

900 fps I use 50% WW's & 50% lead
800 fps I use 40% WW's & 60% lead
700 fps I use 30% WW's & 70% lead

Depending on your gun & your bullet fit you might have to adjust a tiny bit one way or the other but this will get you very close to an ideal alloy. Remember, if you are getting just a very minimal amount of leading don't even worry about it, you are shooting hunting loads & most likely won't run very many down your barrel before cleaning....if it even leads!
Also remember the old Colt's shooting black powder loads were using bullets that were pretty much pure lead.
A 300 gr bullet sure isn't necessary for deer but we've all used them!

Dick

 

[Dale53]

sixshot is giving you excellent advice (as usual :mrgreen.

The MiHec hollow points are now my bullets of choice for hunting. I don't believe that you can do better. Follow sixshot's advice as to alloy - he has this NAILED!

Good luck and report back with PICTURES!

Dale53

 

[zacharoo]

I do not cast but shoot 45 blackhawks. I have between 25 and 30 lbs. of ww with the steel removed. Any of you guys willing to make a deal on some bullets if I supply these ww's.
Zacharoo