Two handed combat shooting with a 1911 pistol

[loaded round]

A rather dumb question about two handed shooting with a semi auto pistol if I may ask. For a right handed shooter which thumb is on top of the grip. Is it the left or right thumb on top of your two handed grip? Thanks for your help from an old one handed bullseye shooter. :)

 

[wolfsong]

My right thumb is on the grip. My left thumb lays over my right thumb.

 

[GunnyGene]

A rather dumb question about two handed shooting with a semi auto pistol if I may ask. For a right handed shooter which thumb is on top of the grip. Is it the left or right thumb on top of your two handed grip? Thanks for your help from an old one handed bullseye shooter. :)

There's more to combat pistol than just the grip.

Here's the basics from USMC Combat Pistol MCRP 8-10B.3

https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%208-10B.3.pdf?ver=2017-03-27-105117-183

The common standing Weaver, but don't just leave it at that. Download the above MCRP and study it at your leisure. :)

 

[Snake45]

Both thumbs pointing forward, right thumb on top of (but not over) left thumb.

 

[Poco Oso]

Both thumbs pointing forward, right thumb on top of (but not over) left thumb.

This.

 

[blume357]

Actually, and I could be wrong... I was once before, I don't think either thumb should actually be 'on' the grip...both should be out away from the pistol.

 

[Bob Wright]

I'm sort of out in left field with a catcher's mitt here, but I'll put in my two cent's worth:

Concentrate on two basics: sight picture and trigger squeeze. Grip and hold as steady as you can and squeeze off a few rounds. Your stance and grip will evolve when you start putting bullets where you want them each time, every time. When you get consistent with hitting your target, you will have developed you grip and stance.

Bob Wright

 

[Snake45]

Actually, and I could be wrong... I was once before, I don't think either thumb should actually be 'on' the grip...both should be out away from the pistol.

:shock:

 

[Snake45]

Like this:

 

[contender]

"Both thumbs pointing forward, right thumb on top of (but not over) left thumb"

^^^^ This ^^^^

Look at all the serious competition shooters in the action shooting competitions, that use a 1911 style handgun. The right hand grasps the handgun, with the thumb placed in a position to where it can operate the safety. The thumb is pointed towards the target,, with the wrist canted in a comfortable manner. Kinda like you are pointing at the target with your thumb, with the other fingers pointed towards the ground,, at an angle of about 35-45 degrees.
Your left hand wraps into the space of the handgun left open, using the heel of the hand, and the left thumb is placed alongside the frame, just under the slide & rests comfortably under the right thumb.

Look online at any of the top shooters such as Max Michel, Todd Jarrett, Jessie Harrison, Julie Golieb, Randi Rogers, Jerry Miculek, Robbie Leatham, and how they show that gripping method.

 

[Jeepnik]

While I practice a two hand hold in the Weaver stance, left handed mostly these days. The first time I fired a 1911 at something that wasn’t paper, I was lying on my left side shooting with just my right hand.

It worked but I can tell you I have no recollection of see the sights. I just kept pulling the trigger until the slide locked back.

In other words practice anyway you want. It won’t happen that way. About the worst thing paper can do is a paper cut. People a whole lot worse.

 

[blume357]

My only point about trying to keep the thumb away was that I was taught to not use either thumb as part of your grip... I also assumed that me being a righty that my left thumb would be over my right.... So after posting what I did I decided to reach down and draw my Sig p239, I was surprised a bit at what my natural grip actually was....



Because the P239 has a curved trigger guard and it is a tad longer on the front it is not natural to put my left finger over the front of it... also, like I said my now trained muscle memory keeps both my thumbs from being any part of my grip. I think thumbs tend to push left or right and so you use the other fingers for a light grip and actually push with the trigger hand and pull an equal amount with the other.

 

[GunnyGene]

Since the thread is about Combat pistol, here's a little advice (although the pic is with a rifle):

Holding discipline and drills give way to practicality and you're gonna spend 90% of your time holding your weapon in the most bizarre, undisciplined way possible. But if you survive the firefight.......Congrats, that's the way to hold it. :)

 

[Pat-inCO]

Here's what I like: (Todd Jarrett)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

 

[blume357]

That was a good one Pat..... the one problem I've found I have is getting my finger placed correctly on the trigger...

 

[contender]

Thanks for posting that Pat. It's a very concise & excellent video demonstration I was trying to describe.

I know Todd. Long ago, he & Robbie both helped me learn that grip method. Over the years,, I have watched Todd teach shooting,, and I have found his methods & terminology to be excellent. I have copied a lot of his stuff, used it, and told him I copy his methods of teaching. That video is a condensed version of his instruction of basic shooting. But he is spot on,, and what he shows is what all the top shooters teach & use all the time.

Real combat,, you may not always be in a position to do the body presentation,, but the gripping method is still the same. If you are only using one hand,, then use it as correctly as possible. You have a much better chance of hitting a target if you do. I have seen Todd demonstrate this while on the ground, laying on his back, upside down. I have seen it in prone, and around corners etc. It works.


Blume, your issue with your finger comes from the fact you have shorter yet thicker fingers & hands. Not uncommon. I have taught people with different hand sizes a lot. I did a lady a few months back, who has real long, slender fingers & hands. Each hand size incorporates potentially different issues. But they can be overcome. This is where getting a gun AND it's grips to fit YOUR hands. I've said it here often,, get a gun to fit YOUR hands. And remember, "fit & comfort" can be done by matching the gun and grips, to you, even if it involves custom grips.
In a 1911,,, for hands like yours, slimmer grip panels often help a lot. If I recall correctly, you enjoy the Sig's. Look into grip selections & such.

Many gun makers are NOW building guns, and shipping them with a few grip options. Ruger does this some, as do others.

Once you find the best fitting grip design & panels, it can & will make a difference in accuracy.

 

[prairieviper]

I prefer the thumb over thumb grip, same as I use for revolvers, for my semi-auto pistols.

 

[Pat-inCO]

Thanks for posting that Pat.
It's a very concise & excellent video demonstration I was trying to describe.

I just wish they still had the long version posted (almost twice as long). When I
found it, I watched it dozens of times and learned something new EVERY time. :D

I like to try and teach that way . . . one item at a time. It SURE takes a lot longer to
get going, but you end up not having to relearn near as much. :wink:

I prefer the thumb over thumb grip, same as I use for revolvers, for my semi-auto pistols.

That works well, until you let the "over" thumb get a little too high.
Then you have a nice big chunk taken out of that thumb.

 

[kmoore]

Okay different gun, but same grip. Strong hand thumb rests over weak hand thumb as many already stated. As shown in Snake45's photo. That's the grip Glock instructors taught me and I have taught to many new shooters.
My point is, no one mentioned that those thumbs should not put tension on the gun. If and when you do many have the problem of pushing the handgun sideways with their thumbs and shoot left or right depending on which is your strong hand (the one with a finger on the trigger). When I see that the thumbs look like they have a death grip against the frame I pull the thumbs of the shooter and repeat do not push them hard into the gun, the are there just for for pointing not griping. Relax the thumbs.
Yes, same grip standing, prone, kneeling, lying on your side, holding gun sideways, aiming high, aiming low, shooting around a object all use same two handed grip.

 

[exavid]

Yep, I use the same grip as shown in Snake's photo. Except the guy was holding in the wrong hands. On a full Bullseye match I used a S&W Victory .22, A Ruger SR9 9mm and a Ruger SR40C all with the same grip. It helps accuracy if one's strong hand is gripping as high as possible on the grip. It lessens the muzzle flip which helps in the rapid fire phases of a Bullseye match.

 

[prairieviper]

Thanks for posting that Pat.
It's a very concise & excellent video demonstration I was trying to describe.

I just wish they still had the long version posted (almost twice as long). When I
found it, I watched it dozens of times and learned something new EVERY time. :D

I like to try and teach that way . . . one item at a time. It SURE takes a lot longer to
get going, but you end up not having to relearn near as much. :wink:

I prefer the thumb over thumb grip, same as I use for revolvers, for my semi-auto pistols.

That works well, until you let the "over" thumb get a little too high.
Then you have a nice big chunk taken out of that thumb.

I have never had that happen. It just goes to show one size doesn't fit all.