Turn ring

[Flagship]

I just bought a New Model SBH in 44 Mag. I haven't even fired it yet but in looking it over and fooling with it, I notice it is starting to get a line around the cylinder where the alignment part rubs. I have a personal problem with that kind of mark. I saw mention of being able to eliminate it, but can't seem to find a post describing the process. Most here seem to accept it as part of being Ruger but my old 3 screw doesn't have it and, as I said, I really have a problem with it. So, is there an easy fix? Is there a fix that can be done by a qualified gun smith? Do I really have to live with this?
Did I miss a post? I know my search capabilities are not the greatest so directions to the post would be gratefully received.

 

[sheep.dog]

I'm no expert but, I spent some time watching the cylinder latch as I performed different functions- it drops when the gate is opened and and returns when it is closed, and it drops as the hammer goes back and returns just before the hammer reaches full cock. Not much you can do about the latch rubbing as the cylinder come to alignment when you cock the hammer. You can however minimize the rubbing by aligning the cylinder before closing the gate.

 

[GasGuzzler]

New Models do this a lot easier.

 

[BlackEagle]

There is not an easy fix. It can be done but you should have a gunsmith do it.

 

[flatgate]

I think that many gunsmiths would NOT touch this one with a 10 foot pole. Now, since 'ol flatgate is a bonafide home boy gun butcher then there's NOTHING stopping me from butchering up my own guns. I have ALL my New Model shooters "adjusted" so they do NOT ring the cylinder...........
One must be aware that the ring can show up unless one is very diligent during handling of the revolver.

JMHO,

flatgate

 

[BlackEagle]

As usual flatgate set the record straight...I'm a home boy gun butcher too, but not bonafide yet . And I don't sell stuff I messed with.

 

[Flagship]

I think that many gunsmiths would NOT touch this one with a 10 foot pole. Now, since 'ol flatgate is a bonafide home boy gun butcher then there's NOTHING stopping me from butchering up my own guns. I have ALL my New Model shooters "adjusted" so they do NOT ring the cylinder...........
One must be aware that the ring can show up unless one is very diligent during handling of the revolver.

JMHO,

flatgate

I can see where a person would need to be very careful while using the loading gate, as sheep.dog pointed out. That's something that can be controlled with no modifications to the gun But, I'm assuming there is a difference in the hammer / bolt profiles that release the bolt sooner on the NM that on the OM. Don't know if this is beyond me or not, I'll have to look closely and I'll order new parts if I decide to make a change. Do you think polishing just the very, very top edges of the bolt, removing any roughness would help? This is the first New Model I've owned and I'm fairly disappointed.

 

[BlackEagle]

It would probably help some, if you don't go overboard. There are 2 methods I'm aware of to complete the task, and you should be able to find info on both if you really spend some time looking. Jerry Kuhnhuasen and a fellow called IOWEGAN both touch on the subject in their books. I am not going to attempt to explain further than that. As I mentioned above, it is not an easy fix. Don't be in a hurry.

 

[Carry_Up]

I notice it is starting to get a line around the cylinder where the alignment part rubs. I have a personal problem with that kind of mark.

Every week or two, someone buys his first revolver and notices the line around the cylinder. It wasn't there when it was new, so why is it there now?

Step back and have a look at how a revolver is designed. As the cylinder turns, it must be stopped at exactly the right place before the next round is fired. That job is done by the cylinder locking pawl. That pawl has to drop onto the cylinder - at a minimum - half way between the locking notches. On most revolvers it drops much sooner. If the pawl does not drop until it lines up with the next locking notch, the cylinder won't lock at all, because it will be speeding past the pawl while it is dropping.

I don't understand why someone would have a personal problem with the turn line. That is how a revolver is designed and how every correctly adjusted revolver looks after it has been shot. The only revolver without a turn line is one that has never been fired. Your choice.

 

[flatgate]

The only revolver without a turn line is one that has never been fired. Your choice.

I beg your pardon! NONE of my Ruger shooters have rings on their cylinders.

flatgate

 

[Flagship]

I notice it is starting to get a line around the cylinder where the alignment part rubs. I have a personal problem with that kind of mark.

Every week or two, someone buys his first revolver and notices the line around the cylinder. It wasn't there when it was new, so why is it there now?

Step back and have a look at how a revolver is designed. As the cylinder turns, it must be stopped at exactly the right place before the next round is fired. That job is done by the cylinder locking pawl. That pawl has to drop onto the cylinder - at a minimum - half way between the locking notches. On most revolvers it drops much sooner. If the pawl does not drop until it lines up with the next locking notch, the cylinder won't lock at all, because it will be speeding past the pawl while it is dropping.

I don't understand why someone would have a personal problem with the turn line. That is how a revolver is designed and how every correctly adjusted revolver looks after it has been shot. The only revolver without a turn line is one that has never been fired. Your choice.

I'm sorry, I guess I didn't say that the Ruger Blackhawk I bought new in 1967, the one I have shot and shot and shot doesn't have a ring. I guess I also missed saying that the US Firearms SA I bought a few years ago doesn't have that ring. Having a ring on the cylinder, to me, makes a revolver look like one of those cheap things that were made in Springfield MA. You know, Smiths. I just think a ring signifies that the manufacturer didn't take the time, or care enough, to design the locking mechanism properly. Now, if I were the type to fan my gun, well then I guess I'd want the bolt to be there and I'd put up with the ring. I know I'm a little anal-retentive about some things, but then... It's just how I feel.

 

[Carry_Up]

I beg your pardon! NONE of my Ruger shooters have rings on their cylinders.

I salute you for the amount of r/d work you must have done to achieve it! While it is theoretically possible to time the cylinder locking pawl so it drops into the next cylinder locking notch, considerable tweaking is necessary to the hammer plunger dimensions and to the locking pawl itself.

Setting aside the great difficulty in achieving this feat, the newly tweaked revolver can only be cocked very carefully at slow speed. Otherwise as stated, the cylinder notch will blow right by the locking pawl because the pawl doesn't drop instantly.

A visible turn line is not an indication of improper revolver manufacturing or timing. It is a by-product of correct revolver design, and is necessary to allow enough time for the locking pawl to touch the cylinder before it arrives at the next locking notch. That falls into the category of reliability under normal usage.

Specific to the New Model Ruger SA, the dimensions of the hammer pawl and the size and shape of the locking pawl determine the drop timing. You don't have a lot of adjustment range with stock parts. So to achieve a no-turn-ring revolver, be prepared to make your own plunger, while also modifying your hammer and locking pawl. And all of this to avoid a tiny line around the cylinder.

 

[Jbrown75]

I do CAS matches and can say from experience that a properly timed SA will NOT ring the cylinder if handled properly. The SA's that do are the New Model Rugers, and they do it by manufacturing design. They don't need to be designed to leave the ring, it was done to add an extra measure of safety beyond what is necessary. FWIW, I have modified one of my New Models to not ring the cylinder, and I do indeed shoot it quickly. It has yet to speed past any of the bolt stops, and it's approaching 2,500 rounds since the modification.

 

[Carry_Up]

I'm very interested to hear that someone in CAS is using a revolver with Zero latch rubbing contact. I assumed that with all the fanning and fast draw events, a CAS revolver would be the last choice for this modification. I'd be interested to hear more about the modifications and the parts you had to make in order to achieve this level of latch precision. Still, I have to point out that all this work was done - an admirable piece of gunsmithing to be sure - in order to avoid the unsightly turn ring on the cylinder. It was certainly NOT done to improve reliability. Flatgate is correct in saying that most gunsmiths wouldn't accept this type of work.

 

[GasGuzzler]

My NM came with a ring when it got here. It doesn't bother me and there is nothing wrong with the way it works.

 

[Jbrown75]

I'm very interested to hear that someone in CAS is using a revolver with Zero latch rubbing contact. I assumed that with all the fanning and fast draw events, a CAS revolver would be the last choice for this modification.

Fanning is not encouraged nor allowed in CAS. You're thinking CFD, Cowboy Fast Draw. And those are a different breed altogether.

Flatgate is correct in saying that most gunsmiths wouldn't accept this type of work.

I didn't say he wasn't.

As far as what I did to my New Model, flatgate has probably done the same to his. It doesn't have any effect on the reliability one bit as far as I can tell.

 

[BlackEagle]

I think this modification is fine tuning. When I adjust the settings on my carburetor I adjust it differently than a good mechanic might. His adjustments are probably better for reliability on many cars with many drivers, but I think mine are better for me and my car. And I might even change the settings depending on what time of year it is if I wanted it just right. If I was going to be fanning one of my revolvers I would definately set it up different than my other shooters. I think Kuhnhausen discusses this in his books.

 

[5of7]

All I can say is that to me, a turn ring is a non-issue.

I buy a gun to use, not to display and to admire. It goes into a holster and gets carried in some fairly rugged conditions and when I want it, I want it to work reliably and the last thing on my mind is whether or not it might develop a turn ring on the cylinder.

But then....that is just the way I see it, others may see it differently. 8)

 

[BlackEagle]

All I can say is that to me, a turn ring is a non-issue.

I buy a gun to use, not to display and to admire. It goes into a holster and gets carried in some fairly rugged conditions and when I want it, I want it to work reliably and the last thing on my mind is whether or not it might develop a turn ring on the cylinder.

But then....that is just the way I see it, others may see it differently. 8)

That is how I feel about one of mine that already has a line. I have others that I don't want to have the line but I use. Then I have some that I don't even work the action on because I didn't buy them to shoot.

 

[flatgate]

Yeah, a stock New Model will have a cylinder latch "contact ring". I don't get my panties all in a wad about it, either.
However, since I have the ability to rebuild the cylinder latch and modify the latch plunger within the hammer, I don't have NM shooters that "ring the cylinder". It's, in my opinion, just like changing the wheels/tires on your Camaro or Mustang. You don't have to do it but it sure is fun when you do.

Oh, look, there's a 50th Anniv. .44 mag. Blackhawk with a Super Blackhawk grip frame that has a rounded trigger guard and a Bisley Hammer! Gosh, that trigger's set back, too, and the doggone thing has a half cock notch!
Work in progress, though, but I'll get 'er finished soon.

flatgate

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Most properly-handled Old Models won't have a ring.

Essentially all New Models will quickly develop a ring unless "tuned up" as alluded to above.

That's just the way it is.

 

[Carry_Up]

Where are the details about the tune-up you refer to? We are not talking tune-up or adjustment. New models have a different hammer plunger. You can fabricate one that is slightly longer than stock, which will delay the cylinder latch a little. I had to do this because my cylinder latch dropped almost immediately after rotation started. For me, that change was to improve reliability.

But the plunger cannot be extended much. Past a certain point, you can't cock the hammer because the plunger can't slip over the locking lever. That's why I said that a lot of parts fabrication would have to be done to alter the design of the hammer and the cylinder locking pawl. And all this machining and extra work to achieve what???? All finely made revolvers such as S&W and Colt have a drag line. It is not evidence of poor design or sloppy adjustment. It means that the owner actually shoots his revolver instead of keeping it in his sock drawer.

Carry_Up

 

[Ale-8(1)]

An alternative to making a longer plunger is to extend and re-contour the "tail" on the bolt which engages the plunger. This involves some welding and finishing. Not for the amateur to attempt without due consideration, I admit. I have not attempted it myself because I have very few New Models and am not particularly concerned about the ring on these.

Some folks simply do not like the line. They are more than welcome to pursue efforts to eliminate it as far as I'm concerned. If it doesn't bother you, by all means ignore it.

I handle my Old Models properly and avoid rings thereon.

JMHO

 

[flatgate]

I tore apart several watches my Grandpa gave me when I was about 8 years old. I changed the chain ring on my 20" Rollfast to one from a 24" (can you say "overdrive?") I just couldn't "leave well enough alone". I've monkeyed with my OM and NM Ruger single actions for well over 20 years. It's too much fun!

Cheers!

Flatgate