True Bear Story

[BearBiologist]

Excellent read!!!

As a retired Wildlife Biologist in grizzly country, I have always advocated carrying both spray and a sidearm. I will be carrying my 10mm Glock after watching this, as well as spray.

https://mtntough.com/blogs/mtntough-blog/grizzly-survivor-a-providence-story

 

[Mobuck]

Sounds reasonable to me. When I was making summer scouting trips in Colorado, I carried a 4 5/8" SBH. There was a fair amount of bear incidents that summer but none where I worked. I carried a card from the nuisance wildlife officer just in case I had to shoot a bear which was threatening the folks in the campground.

 

[BearBiologist]

Sounds reasonable to me. When I was making summer scouting trips in Colorado, I carried a 4 5/8" SBH. There was a fair amount of bear incidents that summer but none where I worked. I carried a card from the nuisance wildlife officer just in case I had to shoot a bear which was threatening the folks in the campground.

He brings up some excellent arguments against carrying a revolver. From my one experience, I could not have drawn a revolver in time and certainly would not have had time for more than 1 (maybe 2?) shot but he did. Living or dying is a matter of possibilities sometimes. Previously I have carried a OM 45 Colt or a custom SBH in 454.

 

[hittman]

Some say handguns are for self defense and long guns are made for killing.

Hard for me to decide which would be best.

Glad I don’t live in bear country.

 

[Mobuck]

Agreed.

 

[Jeepnik]

I suppose for those individuals the 10mm is great. But some can't handle the recoil in a semi auto. Some aren't as comfortable with a semi auto as with a revolver. It comes down to you pays your money and takes your choice. If you fear bears as much as they seem to the solution is simple, stay home.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

The only time I've hunted in grizzly country was in Wyoming, hunting prairie dogs. Probably a pretty unlikely scenario for a bear encounter. But you never know. I've always thought I'd carry one of my . 44 mags, but he makes some good points in favor of the hi-capacity auto pistol. Hard to argue with 16 vs 6.

 

[contender]

It was a long interview,, but enlightening.

As a person who deals with wildlife daily,, (just not bears,) I do get a fair amount of experience in dealing with other critters. I ALWAYS tell folks; "No 2 animals are alike,, even if the same species. So you can plan & prepare as best as you see fit. Just remember,, everybody ever hurt by an animal says the same thing; I didn't think it would happen to me."

I often tell folks,, it may seem like a lot to carry,, but when you step into an animals home area,, you live by THEIR rules. If you want to be able to survive,, "Be Prepared." Bear spray, a handgun, a shotgun or whatever,, is no good if in the pack, truck or camp. It's ONLY potentially good if in our hands or immediately accessible in split second timing. If you carry it,, make sure you can get to it, immediately. If you don't have it,,, you can't use it.
And often I'd bet a lot of people who get killed by an animal,, their last thoughts may include; "I wish I had XYZ!"

But,, as always,, it comes down to a personal choice or choices as to what we carry,, how we carry & where we go.

The times I've been in grizzly country,, I made sure I had immediate access to a strong handgun, capable of stopping a big bear if necessary. I've never needed it,, but if I did,, I felt comfortable in MY personal choices, as well as my abilities to get to it QUICKLY. Oh,, I also recommend to folks around here,, (where we have a fair amount of black bear encounters,) a quality bear spray. Especially where many of the folks here are not really firearm people. And we have some good sized blacks here. An "average" sized one is over 300 lbs,, with many topping over 500 lbs,, to our biggest over 650 lbs live weight. NC has some of the biggest blacks in the entire country too. And many feel a black won't bother you,, but we have had enough "issues" of actual direct contact by a bear hurting people or pets to where precautions should always be taken.

Personally, I've had a few bluff charges by blacks,, and seen enough of them in places where they caused me to immediately get hands on my handgun.

Another note in the video above.
It was mentioned that the guy said he was "good with a handgun." Well, I challenge folks to truly put themselves under STRESS & see how fast they can draw AND fire (2) rounds all while hitting where they need to. (There are several ways to do this.)
TRAINING,, PRACTICE,, and then do it a LOT will only make you better. Do it under a timer,, and force yourself to push your limits to see if you really can react fast enough.

 

[gramps]

Bear Bio, why can you draw your Glock faster than a revolver? I carried a Redhawk .44mag in Alaska for moose and bear. I saw moose in Anchorage and the only bear I saw were in the Anchorage Zoo. I also worked in Barrow, I only saw fox and Wolves in town, though periodically we were told where not to go due to Polar bear sightings. I carried 300 gr WFN. A great talisman.
gramps

 

[protoolman]

I've not read anywhere where they had time to fire more than 2 shots. Best to make the first one count. 10mm doesn't carry a big enough, powerful enough bullet for me. It's ok maybe, but my 320 gr. .45 Colt rounds at 1340 fps make me feel safer.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I think the truth is, there is no handgun capable of "stopping" an enraged grizzly with soft tissue hits (yes, the bear may die a bit later, but that may not help you). You're going to have to hit the brain or spinal column to effect a "stop". To me, that suggests (1) penetration is king, if it doesn't have the ability to go deep it's useless (2) is your ability to put your shots on target, preferably repeat shots to increase the probability of a neuro/spinal hit. If you know me at all, you know I'm a big fan of the sixgun, but I'm seeing more to recommend the high capacity auto pistol in this scenario. But what do I know? Not much. The most "dangerous" critter in my neck of the woods is probably a coyote or maybe a hog, so I'm not gonna rush out and buy a 10mm auto; I'll just keep packing my . 38s, .357s, and . 44s.

 

[ronto]

Brown Bears are very territorial and will defend their turf. The best defense is to stay out of their neighborhood . IF you do decide to enter their territory you takes your chances and just hope your weapon of choice doesn't malfunction. There isn't a fish, Elk, or Deer big enough that warrants a confrontation with a Brown Bear. Confront trouble if it comes your way but don't go looking for it. There is a thin line between being brave and being stupid.

 

[Dave P.]

Bear threads are interesting on a couple of levels for me. The first is the amount of thought that seems to go into worrying about the possibility of being eaten by a large animal when the chances of it happening are so slight.
The second is based on the shooters I see and know, is that most of us if suddenly charged by a grizzly we hadn't already seen from say 50 yards or so in any kind of cover would be very lucky to clear a normal hiking or trail type of holster.
If an average grizzly can run about 30 mph, and guessing they accelerate pretty quick, you're looking at about 3.5 seconds before they eat your face if they launch at 50 yards from you.
Granted most of the time I'd suspect some kind of advanced warning or awareness of the bear ready to chomp something would give some time to pull that big single action and draw a bead it. On the other hand if it really was an "oh $%^# " moment where you're wondering where that big brown inbound blur came from the 15 rounds from an autoloader sounds better to me.

 

[BearBiologist]

A few comments:

1. I don't feel you can draw a Glock faster than a revolver. But, you may have spray in your hand.
2. Ron T.: Grizzlies are not territorial but will defend food sources (gut piles, etc.) or young. But, as you suggest, Situational awareness is your best defense.
3. Ron: I always told people (students or others): ANY animal will bite given the right stimulus. I had my Herpetology Professor in Grad School almost call me a liar when I said I had been bitten by a Rosy Boa (small ground boa found in the SW USA) until I told him it was shedding (eyes clouded over), had been mishandled shortly before I picked it up and was hungry. One of the first and worse bites I ever got from a mammal was from a 6-week old cocker puppy that was fighting with a sibling.
4. Gramps: I saw enough bear warnings in Anchorage to realize there was a (tiny) risk and saw a large bull moose a 1/2 mile from the airport. Never saw a "coastie" but saw almost 2 dozen grizzlies in the Interior. When I worked for the Department of the Interior, I was certified for both firearms (375 H & H mag and 12 gauge=no handguns were permitted while for duty carry except LEOs) and bear spray, and was authorized to certify staff to carry and use bear spray. You mention moose and most experienced Wildlife Biologists recognize moose as a greater risk than bears or wolves.

 

[Paul B]

In my neck of the desert you would think bears would not be a problem However, I have on several occasions seen Black Bears crossing the desert going from one mountain range to another. Usually they would be about two or three hundred yards away so were more of an interesting sight that a hazard. FWIW, I was always armed with something on those desert hikes.
When doing a hike over in the Mount Lemmon area I always had a .44 mag of some kind or a Ruger Bisley .45 Colt with a fairly hot load. I generally kept it somewhat concealed as the area was popular with hikers from the local university, ecofreaks and frankly a few seriously anti gun and hunting types. Some years bear sightings were common and there have been problems with Mountain Lions. One young lady was dragged from her tent by a bear and she was saved by one of the group's chaperones who kept a .44 magnum in his vehicle. The bear ran off and Fish & Game tracked it down and finished it off.
I've personally never had a problem with bears but was tracked by a Mountain Lion when I lived in Nevada. I'd spotted it and scared it off by yelling and throwing rocks at it. That happened two times and it was much closer to me the second time. The third time it was close enough tojump me so I shot it with the .243 I was carrying that day. I was scouting for deer and looking for coyote sign and hoping to shoot one to check fur condition. I reported the lion kill to Game & Fish and they did a autopsy on the cat. I learned that the cat's stomach was totally empty. Guess I was supposed to be dinner.
Paul B.

 

[gramps]

I bought a bicycle in Anchorage, which I rode to work, and recreationally. I was cruising down a Greenway called Campbell Creek(paved), when I saw a gravel trail running off to the left. I took it being “the road less traveled!”. After a mile or so things started looking familiar? Slowly it dawned on me I had watched an trail cam video of a large grizzly and her yearling cubs walking this trail in the Bicentenial Park, that I had made a decision to stay away from. I stopped and slowly turned around and left. After a half mile I saw a sign that said I was leaving the Bicentennial Park. I was carrying my Redhawk .44 mag in an Uncle Mike’s shoulder holster. Just because I had it didn’t mean I wanted to use it! Yep, come Winter, the moose were everywhere in Anchorage! Several people were stomped by the creatures., ending up in ICU.
gramps

 

[BearBiologist]

In my neck of the desert you would think bears would not be a problem However, I have on several occasions seen Black Bears crossing the desert going from one mountain range to another. Usually they would be about two or three hundred yards away so were more of an interesting sight that a hazard. FWIW, I was always armed with something on those desert hikes.
When doing a hike over in the Mount Lemmon area I always had a .44 mag of some kind or a Ruger Bisley .45 Colt with a fairly hot load. I generally kept it somewhat concealed as the area was popular with hikers from the local university, ecofreaks and frankly a few seriously anti gun and hunting types. Some years bear sightings were common and there have been problems with Mountain Lions. One young lady was dragged from her tent by a bear and she was saved by one of the group's chaperones who kept a .44 magnum in his vehicle. The bear ran off and Fish & Game tracked it down and finished it off.
I've personally never had a problem with bears but was tracked by a Mountain Lion when I lived in Nevada. I'd spotted it and scared it off by yelling and throwing rocks at it. That happened two times and it was much closer to me the second time. The third time it was close enough tojump me so I shot it with the .243 I was carrying that day. I was scouting for deer and looking for coyote sign and hoping to shoot one to check fur condition. I reported the lion kill to Game & Fish and they did a autopsy on the cat. I learned that the cat's stomach was totally empty. Guess I was supposed to be dinner.
Paul B.

I was drawn for a bull Tule Elk hunt in the East Bay Area of San Francisco on Grizzly Island. The Refuge Manager told me, they had recently sighted a black bear on the refuge=it was at least 100 miles from the Sierras and probably 200 or more from likely bear habitat. While doing my thesis we had an inmate get clawed in San Gabriel Canyon while at a Youth Camp (He was teasing a bear with a candy bar). DFG relocated the bear to an area near Yosemite. The bear was back in 2-3 weeks. Little or no work has been done on how they navigate: Geese use stars, pigeons use magnetism, toads use moisture, other animals use the sun's position (Final Exam questions from an Animal Behavior class in grad school!)

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

Ruger 1911 in 10 mm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtZdIxVfAVg

 

[Cholo]

↑ That video was cool!

 

[blume357]

Restaurant and bar here a few years back had a stuffed Grizzly in the entrance that stood about 10-12ft tall. I think you would be lucky to stop something like that with even a 454 Causal ... somedays you eat the bear and somedays the bear eats you.

 

[ronto]

Ron T.: Grizzlies are not territorial but will defend food sources (gut piles, etc.) or young. But, as you suggest, Situational awareness is your best defense.

Everything I've read said Brown Bears ARE territorial. All bear females will protect their young and all bears will defend their food sources. Regarding Polar Bears ,YOU are the "food source".
Also it is not a good idea to fry a pan of bacon or leave food laying around at your campsite in Brown or Black Bear country.

 

[BearBiologist]

Ron T.: Grizzlies are not territorial but will defend food sources (gut piles, etc.) or young. But, as you suggest, Situational awareness is your best defense.

Everything I've read said Brown Bears ARE territorial. All bear females will protect their young and all bears will defend their food sources. Regarding Polar Bears ,YOU are the "food source".
Also it is not a good idea to fry a pan of bacon or leave food laying around at your campsite in Brown or Black Bear country.

I was speaking as a scientist with a Master's Degree in Animal Behavior and a Thesis on Black Bear Behavior, not a writer for a magazine. Territorial means defending an AREA against intruders.

Note: Polar bears eat anything that's meat. Humans are simply an "ethnic" food for them. We tried to trap black bears using fried bacon and fried trout=no luck! But spaghetti sauce worked great! But, as someone said, animals are individuals. And I was looking at "urban nears"=ones that were at least semi-habituated to being around humans.

 

[ronto]

Ron T.: Grizzlies are not territorial but will defend food sources (gut piles, etc.) or young. But, as you suggest, Situational awareness is your best defense.

Everything I've read said Brown Bears ARE territorial. All bear females will protect their young and all bears will defend their food sources. Regarding Polar Bears ,YOU are the "food source".
Also it is not a good idea to fry a pan of bacon or leave food laying around at your campsite in Brown or Black Bear country.

I was speaking as a scientist with a Master's Degree in Animal Behavior and a Thesis on Black Bear Behavior, not a writer for a magazine. Territorial means defending an AREA against intruders.

Note: Polar bears eat anything that's meat. Humans are simply an "ethnic" food for them. We tried to trap black bears using fried bacon and fried trout=no luck! But spaghetti sauce worked great! But, as someone said, animals are individuals. And I was looking at "urban nears"=ones that were at least semi-habituated to being around humans.

I'll take spaghetti (red sauce) over bacon anytime.

 

[contender]

" We tried to trap black bears using fried bacon and fried trout=no luck!"

I had a group of Boy Scouts at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico about 15 years ago. We'd caught a good mess of native trout out of one of the creeks. We cooked & enjoyed them. I made sure we cleaned them away from camp, and no scraps were allowed to be tossed near camp. Disposal of the waste bones etc,, was done well away from camp, & buried. About 10 pm that night,, a Philmont ranger came to camp, telling us to be aware,, that a black bear had visited a campsite about 1/4 mile away,, and was seen headed our way. Apparently the other group had left food stuff out. My boys got a little concerned,,, & asked me what I was going to do. I said; "I'm stoking the fire,, and going to bed."
No problems from a furry visitor that night. Yet,, it DID visit a group camped about 500 yds away. Apparently,, they didn't follow the food smell abatement we did. it got into some of their food stuff that wasn't secured. One of my boys, (city type,) was a bit scared by the ranger's comments so he stayed awake all night. He said he heard the bear at the other campsite,, but it didn't come near us.

Food stuff, of all kinds can attract all kinds of critters. I've had skunks & coons frequently in campsite areas where food stuff was left out, or not properly disposed of.

I tell many of my customers the following;
"Animals live their lives with 3 major things that drive them. Eating, sleeping, and reproducing. Break that chain, and the problem is normally fixed."

 

[BearBiologist]

Had raccoons raid camp several time while hunting and staying in campgrounds. One felt my face through the tent. Later that night, something came back and I foolishly swatted it through the tent wall. Don't know WHAT it was but it was BIG and SOLID. Bear maybe?; there were tracks in camp the next morning.

Had a raccoon chase my wife away from the table one night while we were camping for a quail hunt.

 

[vito]

Not being a hunter I still found this a fascinating thread. Once in Sequoia National Park we encountered a large male black bear showing interest in a small sow with cubs. Two Rangers showed up as we were waiting for the bears to move on, and neither Ranger was armed with anything other than bear spray.

 

[trebor44]

I survived living and working in bear country (Griz and Blacks). I did sleep with a .44 mag under my "pillow" and always figured I would be able to use it. However, after viewing this video, I have my doubts. I don't frequent bear country much these days, but when I do it will be the 10mm and not the .44 mag that travels with me. I have had my share of bear 'dances' and consider myself very fortunate to have lived past them. Now cattle in the campground, that's a different story, they love that bacon grease that was poured on the ground!